Triggers For Drive

[Quickasyoucan]

My dogs definitely trigger on being in the trialling rings at our training grounds. They definitely relate that physical location to "work".

Mine relates going down to Manly to skateboards unfortunately for me He very definitely relates physical location to his favourite (but definitely not mine) "work" of chasing them.

He also seems to go into drive or to the edge of drive as we approach parks where he usually does training with me.

He also triggers off the tv being switched off.

The front gate clicking.

The lead being picked up.

The lid of a can being taken off.

It is amusing watching them going from seemingly dead asleep to totally alert in seconds.

[OSoSwift]

I haven't tried training in drive

but for Rommi

Ball on a rope

Bunnies

treatbag

Lewis

Soccer ball

asking him to watch

treats

[ness]

Going out to train the youngster seems to be a trigger for drive in my older one .

[corvus]

I don't think I'm understanding what people mean by triggering into drive. Alert or fully revved or anywhere in between?

I have trouble understanding what people actually mean when they talk about drive. It's a continuum, right? How do you describe where on the continuum the dog is when you say they are in drive? What defines it? Would people participate if I started a thread for photos or videos of dogs "in drive" and what body language they considered to be indicative of that state?

[huski]

Corvus, it's the way my dog is behaving and their body language that indicates to me that they are in drive.

[bedazzledx2]

From reading the recent threads I think the term 'drive' is a bit misunderstood and has become the catch all word for a dog that is engaged in the training game. I think its a good thing that people are realising that you can't effectively train a dog that isn't engaged with you but personally I couldn't care less what 'drive' my dog is in so long as he is engaged with me and is into the game. Even for stationary type exercises I won't attempt to train a disinterested dog.

I don't think I'm understanding what people mean by triggering into drive. Alert or fully revved or anywhere in between?

I have trouble understanding what people actually mean when they talk about drive. It's a continuum, right? How do you describe where on the continuum the dog is when you say they are in drive? What defines it? Would people participate if I started a thread for photos or videos of dogs "in drive" and what body language they considered to be indicative of that state?

[huski]

From reading the recent threads I think the term 'drive' is a bit misunderstood and has become the catch all word for a dog that is engaged in the training game. I think its a good thing that people are realising that you can't effectively train a dog that isn't engaged with you but personally I couldn't care less what 'drive' my dog is in so long as he is engaged with me and is into the game. Even for stationary type exercises I won't attempt to train a disinterested dog.

IMO, it's not as simple as judging if the dog is engaged/interested in training. I've seen dogs (including my own) interested in or engaged in training who aren't working in drive. Drive is an adrenalin fuelled behaviour and involves the dog going through a drive motor pattern, which gives them a chemical reward (an endorphin flow).

In fact sometimes when I teach things to Daisy I intentionally do so out of drive, and whilst she's still interested and engaged in the training, she's not giving me the total focus and energy she gives when she's working in drive.

Obviously we all have our own perspectives on it, and to you it might be about her level of interest. IMO though, a dog working in drive and a dog being engaged in training are not necessarily the same thing.

[bedazzledx2]

This where I think there is some misunderstanding. How do you know that my dog is not getting an adrenaline fix when he is engaged with me? Anybody can wind up a dog....thats a given. My interest is competition obedience. Therefore I am need to take what I have trained into the ring where I only have a few re-inforcers at hand (primarily me!!!) so I think its a bit more instructional to go to the next step and see the results translated into trialling in drive. BTW I think I do train in drive....I just don't use the jargon

From reading the recent threads I think the term 'drive' is a bit misunderstood and has become the catch all word for a dog that is engaged in the training game. I think its a good thing that people are realising that you can't effectively train a dog that isn't engaged with you but personally I couldn't care less what 'drive' my dog is in so long as he is engaged with me and is into the game. Even for stationary type exercises I won't attempt to train a disinterested dog.

IMO, it's not as simple as judging if the dog is engaged/interested in training. I've seen dogs (including my own) interested in or engaged in training who aren't working in drive. Drive is an adrenalin fuelled behaviour and involves the dog going through a drive motor pattern, which gives them a chemical reward (an endorphin flow).

In fact sometimes when I teach things to Daisy I intentionally do so out of drive, and whilst she's still interested and engaged in the training, she's not giving me the total focus and energy she gives when she's working in drive.

Obviously we all have our own perspectives on it, and to you it might be about her level of interest. IMO though, a dog working in drive and a dog being engaged in training are not necessarily the same thing.

[huski]

This where I think there is some misunderstanding. How do you know that my dog is not getting an adrenaline fix when he is engaged with me? Anybody can wind up a dog....thats a given. My interest is competition obedience. Therefore I am need to take what I have trained into the ring where I only have a few re-inforcers at hand (primarily me!!!) so I think its a bit more instructional to go to the next step and see the results translated into trialling in drive. BTW I think I do train in drive....I just don't use the jargon

I don't know - I wasn't referring to your dog, just dogs in general. I'm sure there a people who don't use my definition of drive who train their dogs in drive (like yourself who uses different words for it).

But to me a dog who is in drive can be different to a dog who is simply interested in the training.

A lot of people who train in drive use remote rewards when trialling, there are quite a few who train in drive (or, who call the training they do training in drive) in the obedience ring.

Edited January 9, 2010 by huski

[dogdude]

Bedazzledx2

I know a number of highly successful trial winners that train using prey drive methods. They certainly don't advertise it though, as DogsVictoria doesn't see eye to eye regarding Schutz style training.

[bedazzledx2]

Interesting Dogdude. I think that's true of all the ANKC State bodies regarding Schutz. Unless the training is either cruel or illegal why should it matter? Can you explain the training in prey drive please?

Bedazzledx2

I know a number of highly successful trial winners that train using prey drive methods. They certainly don't advertise it though, as DogsVictoria doesn't see eye to eye regarding Schutz style training.

[Seita]

For those who aren't sure about trianing in drive: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=43795 this topic talks about prey drive and using it to get focus and control in an obedience setting.

I train using prey drive, I'm not perfect and am always learning, but as a result of training this way I believed that I have a better and more consistent working dog.

[RubyStar]

Seita, just out of curiosity, what trialling level was Ella up to before you commenced her drive training? Or have you always done it with her prior to entering the ring?

[corvus]

Corvus, it's the way my dog is behaving and their body language that indicates to me that they are in drive.

Yeah, but what does it look like? What differentiates it from a dog that is engaged but not "in drive"? What are the ears doing? The eyes? The tail? Are the movements free or tight? And so on.

[dogdude]

I believe Ella gained all of her titles thus far using the technique.

This is my first dog that I have trained using prey drive, and I still have lots to learn. I winged it using the Balabanov dvds, and I am quite happy with where we are at at this moment.

She debuted in Novice with a 192, but failed to react to my signal during the recall in her second trial, after scoring highly in everything else (still don't know the reason) She seemed fully focused and pumped at the time."

Bedazzled, I did see a huge difference in attitude and attention from "my" highly food driven dog, to my prey drive dog. I dont have a scientific mind to explain whats going on in the dogs head, but there is a marked difference, and my dog will froth at the mouth over a match stick if I encourage her to.

The attidude seems to last far longer than the powers of food during a trial. In the past, I could see the drive go slowly down hill with my foodie, but it seems the longer my prey driven dog goes unsatisfied, the better she will work sometimes.

These are my observations anyway. When they are switched on, they are really switched on.

Edited January 9, 2010 by dogdude

[PAX]

But I consider it cheating a bit dont know why, I just do.

Mind you its not to say I wont wear the vest in the ring, need all the help I need

If she is so excited by the vest, use it as a training distraction. Put the vest on the ground and work her around it, reward her for attention on you and ignoring the vest. Make it easy for her to have sucsess!!!!! (so you remeber this part)

She needs to work through this and know that the rewards come from you and not the magic vest.

[dogdude]

Hi Corvus

The difference is not in the body language as such in my opinion, but in the way the dog is trained. The dog is trained to become almost desperate for the item. A food trained dog (trained using the conventional way) doesn't have that desperate attitude. That doesn't mean that the dog is so revved up its on its limits of being out of control.

The opposite is trained into the dog. It learns to be desperate but still in control, to gain satisfaction.

Edited January 9, 2010 by dogdude

[JulesP]

Corvus why don't you go and have a lesson with K9 Force? As with a lot of things it is easier to have someone show you. I do agree that people are using the word to describe a dog that is just revved up. My dogs actually go more 'still', more contained as they should for their breed imo. I think each breed will show it in different ways.

Bedazzled there are quite a few people here using drive that compete in obedience.

For anyone that rides horses I would liken it to when you truly get engagement rather than just pulling the head onto the bit. You know that feeling of power that could explode but whilst you control it feels amazing?

[caffy]

A lot of people who train in drive use remote rewards when trialling, there are quite a few who train in drive (or, who call the training they do training in drive) in the obedience ring.

What is a remote reward??

Is it placed ringside at a trial?

[Erny]

You know that feeling of power that could explode but whilst you control it feels amazing?

Ahhh, yes. Ecstasy. One of the most wondrous feelings in the world. And it is a feeling of two beings sharing pure harmony as if one, made all the more special because the two beings are two different species. Beautiful.

Sorry. OT. But just needed to salivate at the memory you have jogged.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Erny