As I Walk Through My Suburb

[ILK]

It's tough having a d.a dog. People with friendly dogs quite often don't understand the extra emotional challenges we owners of d.a dogs go through.

Just taking your dog for a walk can cause a lot of grief if an irresponsible person considers it ok to let their "friendly" dog run up to yours.

There are far too many non thinking people out there. I understand your grief pf, I have a d.a dog myself, I almost broke my back picking him up the other day because someone let their two off leash maltese run up to him. Two bites and they would have been no more

[Nannas]

UPDATE on the lady with DA dog we bumped into 3 nights ago.

We bumped into them again last night. Her dog was off leash once again.

We stopped to allow her to get her dog onlead, then we backtracked down the path to allow her to keep walking and turn the way she usually does.

She was right on a bend in the footpath that runs between a house fence and safty fencing so we couldn't see her once we backtracked.

We waited and I took out my phone prepared to take photo's of her dog if it carried on again or got away from her.

Just as she rounded the corner and seen me with my phone she turned and took off running in the other direction. I wasn't sure if she had kept running or just gone back behind the corner, so we just waited.

A minute later a lady walking came round the corner so I asked her if the lady/dog were still there. Lady says "no, she was running down the hill" I asked lady if the dog had a muzzle on. Lady says "No, she was holding one, but it wasn't on the dog"

So, this lady with dog obviously HAS a muzzle for her dog, I gather she knows her dog needs one OR after her big runaway last night I started thinking maybe her dog has been DD listed and she by law required to have it on her dog.

I think when I had my phone out she thought I was ringing Rangers/Police, which makes me think she KNOWS she will be in trouble.

Anyway, this lady has a muzzle so she must know she needs it. She seems to know she will be in trouble if Rangers/Police are called and YET she still walks her dog offleash (in onleash only area), without a muzzle, knowing her dog is DA and she will abuse people who say anything about it.

ON a better note. We bumped into another couple walking a 10month old staffy boy. He was a little charmer (the dog not the man)

Our 2yo AmStaff was quite smitten with him and was quite a show off. LOL

They seemed like 'real' doggy people. They were not scared of my pit and let her meet their little boy, who was still being a little charmer. THEN shock of shocks,,,,,my GSDX who has DA issues wanted to meet this charming little man. I explained to them she had some issues but their little man was all up for saying "hello" and my GSDX seemed really relaxed and was being so well behaved so we carefully let them meet. My GSDX showed no issues at all. She was certainly on her best behaviour, so that is another step forward for her!!!

WWWoooo HHoooo. Thank gawd for all the sensible responsible doggy owners in the world!!!!

[Aidan]

I do use a muzzle and it greatly adds to my DA dog's quality of life. As previously mentioned, we do nearly all our walking in off-leash areas (not heavily populated play parks but designated off-leash coastal or bush tracks). The muzzle has allowed me to do things in training her that she is capable of but that I would never attempt without a muzzle.

I bought a Jafco clear PVC muzzle which is readily modified so that I can use food easily. She can pant, drink, bark, sniff, follow a scent etc although I would not use it for extended periods in warmer weather.

It is mildly inhibitory, but not heavy or uncomfortable so she can put up with it. She lets me put it on her willingly as it always means we're going to do something fun. Her favourite thing in the world is to play with a soccer ball while muzzled so there is that association, and I also introduced it slowly and made it a predictor of fun things.

We choose to walk in off-leash areas, and I have her effectively off-leash (dragging a tracking line attached to a harness). If we were to run into another dog unexpectedly it would at least limit any damage my dog could do, and with that comes a reduction in liability. I accept that other dogs can still bite her, but at least in a fight between two dogs if one is muzzled you can focus on pulling the unmuzzled dog off the muzzled dog, you don't need to wait for a second party to turn up.

The public reaction to seeing her in a muzzle has been, surprisingly, very positive. I've not had a single negative comment to date. Maybe people are just happy to see a well trained, well behaved dog handled responsibly and understand that in this day and age, one bite can have very serious consequences.

My dog is DA but she is capable of being around other dogs (now) within reason. I think that's a very important distinction, and I can't really see a lot of point in muzzling a dog who is on a 6' leash walked around the streets. Horses for courses, just thought I'd share my positive experience with muzzles.

[sas]

I do use a muzzle and it greatly adds to my DA dog's quality of life. As previously mentioned, we do nearly all our walking in off-leash areas (not heavily populated play parks but designated off-leash coastal or bush tracks). The muzzle has allowed me to do things in training her that she is capable of but that I would never attempt without a muzzle.

I bought a Jafco clear PVC muzzle which is readily modified so that I can use food easily. She can pant, drink, bark, sniff, follow a scent etc although I would not use it for extended periods in warmer weather.

It is mildly inhibitory, but not heavy or uncomfortable so she can put up with it. She lets me put it on her willingly as it always means we're going to do something fun. Her favourite thing in the world is to play with a soccer ball while muzzled so there is that association, and I also introduced it slowly and made it a predictor of fun things.

We choose to walk in off-leash areas, and I have her effectively off-leash (dragging a tracking line attached to a harness). If we were to run into another dog unexpectedly it would at least limit any damage my dog could do, and with that comes a reduction in liability. I accept that other dogs can still bite her, but at least in a fight between two dogs if one is muzzled you can focus on pulling the unmuzzled dog off the muzzled dog, you don't need to wait for a second party to turn up.

The public reaction to seeing her in a muzzle has been, surprisingly, very positive. I've not had a single negative comment to date. Maybe people are just happy to see a well trained, well behaved dog handled responsibly and understand that in this day and age, one bite can have very serious consequences.

My dog is DA but she is capable of being around other dogs (now) within reason. I think that's a very important distinction, and I can't really see a lot of point in muzzling a dog who is on a 6' leash walked around the streets. Horses for courses, just thought I'd share my positive experience with muzzles.

For a trainer I'd expect more from you.

I wouldn't give 2 hoots if you aggressive dog had a muzzle on, your dog can still damage another dog with a muzzle on.

Dragging a line is one thing....picking up that drag line in time is another thing and you don't have diddly squat control on a long line and is not effective control.

I own a DA dog, maybe because I own a giant breed I'm being more cautious than you?

Edited January 7, 2010 by sas

[superminty]

I bought a Jafco clear PVC muzzle which is readily modified so that I can use food easily.

Sorry, OT, but...

Pic please I am always on the look out for a more user friendly muzzle (me being the user, of course). the one I have at the moment is plastic and fully enclosed, it's light and has had the bit at the front enlarged for treating but it's still not ideal.

[SpikesPuppy]

What shits me thnough is when they respond with something like "If he's aggressive he should be muzzled". Why should my dog be muzzled if he walks at heel, sits at the curb, stays on leash etc and only reacts to other dogs- does not instigate anything?????

I disagree...I think if your dog reacts aggressively towards all dogs and you could not stop a fight from happening if another dog simply approached, then yes I think they should be muzzled.

If either of my dogs consistently showed dog aggression to every dog that approached they would definitely be wearing a muzzle when out.

My dogs don't love every dog they meet, but I know what kinds of dogs they play best with, I also only take my dogs to a very quiet off-leash area, where they may only see 1 or 2 other dogs at most. For me I know that Jessie is OTT with trying to round up small dogs so I now leash her around them if she is too interested in them. Jessie normally has good recall (especially when i've remembered to bring treats) so that is very easy to manage. For Tilly I know that she doesn't tolerate boisterous in your face dogs or anxious dogs, so I try to move away at the park or i'll get Tilly swimming instead, and by the time she paddles back the dog is normally gone.

Excuse me?? Where did I say that my dog reacts aggressively to all other dogs??? If you actually read any of my other posts in this thread, you would be aware that he only reacts & does not instigate, and it is very rare nowdays anyway, even if threatened, because he trusts in me as his leader, and like you, I know what kinds of dog he plays best with, as well as carefully observing his body language. FTR he has never bitten another dog either (but has himself been bitten... by a Shetland Sheepdog which was off leash). And I have never said my dog is aggressive to fellow dog walkers- it is an assumption that they (like you) make when I say something along the lines of "he doesn't like all dogs" or "He's not the friendliest". Apparently not like=aggressive.

[Aidan]

For a trainer I'd expect more from you.

I wouldn't give 2 hoots if you aggressive dog had a muzzle on, your dog can still damage another dog with a muzzle on.

I'm fully aware of that SAS. The fact is my dog has not attacked another dog in over 6 years (other than my own, and not while muzzled ever).

We had an awkward situation once while she was not muzzled and on a 6' leash, there was a dog following us on-lead, growling at us. Then another group of dogs were ahead of us, also on-lead and straining and barking. I ducked down to the shore to get away from both groups, slipped and fell dropping the leash. The situation could not have got much worse. Yet I called her and she came immediately.

Just one of many risks which we mitigate with training, behaviour modification, and tools like leashes and muzzles.

If I can't see what is coming I hold the leash, if I'm unsure I hold the leash. We're all prone to mistakes, at least if I make a mistake no-one has to suffer a bite. Could you say the same? Not having a dig, just putting it into perspective. I am confident to walk her dragging a line and muzzled because the truth is if she were off-leash and unmuzzled there would be little chance of an incident so long as I kept my wits about me. It's just a 'belt and braces' approach.

[poodlefan]

Last night I got:

2 x "gee you've got your hands full"

1 x "gee you're game walking that many"

and 1 freak out. Howard assisted by barking excitedly.

[kiesha09]

My approach works - warn said owners to keep their dogs the F#$% away from me in the future otherwise they will be reported.

Owner 1 leaves the park when he sees me enter (his staffy ripped open Boo's ear).

Owner 2 puts his dog on lead (GSD rushes Boo and has bitten his face). If it happens again, no doubt he will exit the park upon my arrival too. BTW he tells me his dog is only playing...

Is this not just the most ANNOYING comment that people make.... I had a cocker spaniel put puncture wounds all over my dogs throat with it bleeding alot (needed stitches) and the man says 'Gentle play Bella, Gentle play' then turns to me 'oh Bella is just playing'.... Argh! I don't think so!!!

[poodlefan]

What was interesting was that I drove 10 minutes from my suburb to a really nice shaded area that's bordered by a very quiet dead end road. Not the place to let an untrained dog offlead.

I encountered three sets of dogs, all under effective voice control or onlead and interestingly all purebred. No owner allowed their dogs to approach mine.

I think I'll keep going there.

Edited January 14, 2010 by poodlefan

[Mystiqview]

Everytime I walk out my back door I have to keep up the mantra to myself "I must not harm the neighbour or their dogs"

Two Amstaffs that love to bark and bark and bark. They set off mine and the ferral that lives in the house tells my dogs to shut up.

[kelpiekaye]

Reading all these stories of walking dogs in cities makes me feel so bloody lucky to live on a farm where my dogs can run free, work with no hassles. We recently took them to the Cattlemans Cup where there were heaps of dogs, some running free, some on leads and I did not see one aggressive incident. Most of the dogs were from rural backgrounds and seemed more interested in what their owner was doing than other dogs.

How ever I have lived in built up areas with dogs and had all the same problems with stupid people. They ruin it for all and the worrying thing is they are multiplying

[Nannas]

To me, the idea of muzzling DA dogs depends on the owner and dog.

I know people here (like the lady I mentioned) that have DA dogs with no command or control. THAT dog needs to be muzzled!!

Once it spots another dog it ignores her completely and goes beserk. She battles to keep a hold of him and has lost any control.

IF that dog gets away from her I can see serious trouble. It dragged her within 10 feet of us, she was panicking and screaming at it, rolling the leash up in her hands and ended up strangling it (with the choker) before she could drag it away.

This dog does not need you to get close to it or anything. It starts as soon as it spots another dog. YET the lady still walks it offleash in onleash areas!!??!!

My GSDx has issues but I don't muzzle her anymore. She doesn't go off at other dogs, it is only if they get too close/rush me.

I carry a muzzle for her incase we come across 'unpredictables'..but after she was attacked and ripped up while wearing her muzzle (and unable to defend herself) I refuse to put her in danger again.

Nothing worse than watching your dog with a muzzle on get attacked by on offleash dog and not being able to do anything except keep kicking it, waiting for it to stop.

[Aidan]

Nothing worse than watching your dog with a muzzle on get attacked by on offleash dog and not being able to do anything except keep kicking it, waiting for it to stop.

Yes, that would be a terrible thing, I'm sorry you had to go through that. There are many, many variables. It is not often that I recommend a muzzle for walking (more often in controlled environments), it depends on the dog. Especially if the dog is known to have an inhibited bite and normal ritualised aggression (as scary as that can be), there is really no need for a muzzle in that instance. It does inhibit what would otherwise be considered "normal" communication (inhibited bites are a part of normal communication even if people don't like seeing it).

Please let me be clear, this next question is not a disagreement of opinion, I'm simply seeking your opinion because I am interested. Why is it that you think your dog would have been better off unmuzzled in this particular instance?

[Nannas]

Yes, that would be a terrible thing, I'm sorry you had to go through that. There are many, many variables. It is not often that I recommend a muzzle for walking (more often in controlled environments), it depends on the dog. Especially if the dog is known to have an inhibited bite and normal ritualised aggression (as scary as that can be), there is really no need for a muzzle in that instance. It does inhibit what would otherwise be considered "normal" communication (inhibited bites are a part of normal communication even if people don't like seeing it).

Please let me be clear, this next question is not a disagreement of opinion, I'm simply seeking your opinion because I am interested. Why is it that you think your dog would have been better off unmuzzled in this particular instance?

Hi,

As bad as it may sound,,I know that she would have 'kicked the crap' out of the other dog if she wasn't muzzled.

I honestly think if the dog approached and my dog faced it--like the big showdown--that the other dog would have backed down.

My girl isn't massive but she is a fair sized dog, she is confident and alpha.

This other dog run in from 'behind' her. Snuck in like a gutless whimp. Was running in and biting, but cowering out if she went it back UNTIL it realised she couldn't do anything,,,,then it just went crazy.

Apart from that I just think I would have preferred her to have the chance to defend herself,,,,rather than being chewed on like a rag doll.

While she doesn't have a muzzle on I have had plenty of dogs size her up,,but they usually go away. With the muzzle on is a completely different story.

[poodlefan]

Another incident tonight..

Large breed I've had close encounters of the worst kind with before.. approaches in stalking manner with hard stare.. owner oblivious some distance behind.

I stop and gather my dogs up (all are onlead) and dog comes on. It draws itself up and postures at Howard.

"You can call your dog anytime now" I sing out sweetly to the owner.. and the dog lunges at Howard who spins around on his lead to get away.

"OI - BUGGER OFF" I yell rushing the the dog who bolts off to be grabbed, pinned to the ground and yelled at. I walk off and a few seconds later there's another bout of yelling and pinning from the owner.. Cesar Milan would be so proud. :rolleyes:

[GSDowner]

My dog is always on a lead as I do what I am suppose to do (and also because some "intelligent" people are prejudiced against this breed.

Every Tom Dick and Harry lets their dogs run around, especially after 5pm and on weekends (when council sheriffs are comfy at home). Councils get paid good money, why can't they patrol suburbs after hours?? I feel sorry for my dog - while other dogs run free he is stuck with me.

Anyways, they run up to him, tease him and run away; or attack him barking and dancing around him. As per usual their owners have a stupid excuse that their doggies don't like german shepherds. Sometime I feel like letting my dog run after them.

Edited February 16, 2010 by GSDowner

[Swiss Girl]

Not an idiot I don't think. Just someone who hasn't thought it through. Honestly, the dog didn't look like the type to meekly accept another dog having a go at him.

Last dog that got in Darcy's face was all prepared to have a serious go back before I grabbed the lead off the kid and strung it up.

But who'd want to encourage a dog to behave aggressively anyway? :rolleyes: It's not the first time I've had someone say something along the lines of "mine needs to be taught". Not by my dog they don't.

I think a few years ago I met the BIGGEST IDIOT ever!!!

My GSDX has issues..

We have all the Dangerous Dog Warning signs on our gate/fences (because of the restrcition laws) and our yard is secure.

A few years ago my GSDX was going beserk and looking out the window I notice 3 young boys (7yo-9yo) IN my front yard, kicking my fence and going "pssssss, pssssss" to a staffy pup, which is also going beserk at the fence.

I yelled out and told them to get out of my yard. Next thing I know my dog is at the driveway going beserk. (I live on a corner so the kids just walked around the house and up my driveway and were kicking my gate)

I yelled out again and they took off.

This began happening almost everyday, with the kids running down the hill giggling each time I yelled.

One Sunday I was outside and heard the usual noise so I walked round the house and called out to the kids.

They came over and I asked about their dog. They said her name was Zoey and about 4 months old.

I asked if they loved Zoey and they said Yes. I said "well if you keep teasing that dog and it gets out, it will kill Zoey." One kid sticks his chest out and replies "I'll kick it in the head" I said "It will bite you too, it hates kids"

The next day they returned as usual!!!!!!! When I went out they stood on the path and yelled out to me ""Our dad says if your dog gets out and attacks us,,,he will have it shot and we will sue you and get heaps of money""

YEAH!!!! That's a quick way to get a few dollars...Let your kids provoke a large dog, get attacked and sue the owners!!!!!

BARGAIN!!!!

I had to phone the Rangers who came and took a statement then went to visit the parents of the children.

The Rangers told them IF the kids were continually teasing and provoking my dog and something DID happen, they would have NO right to sue and in fact I could actually have them charged and sue them.

At which point the father says ""The kids don't mean to go in the yard, the pup drags them in there"

The Ranger then told them if the children could NOT keep control of the dog, then the children (by law) were NOT allowed to walk the dog, without supervision.

The father said he and mother didn't have time to walk the dog and as they had no yard it needed to be walked each day.

Ranger told them to either make time, move and get a yard, or get rid of the dog, but under NO circumstances could they allow the children to walk the dog anymore.

Soon after the father (with kids in tow) began walking past my house throwing rocks over the fence at my dog, yelling out abuses and telling me next time he'd throw a bait over the fence, not a rock. I put up with it for 3 days and called the police. Haven't seen the father, kids or dog since.

How can a parent allow thier children to be in danger and only think of the $$$$ they may get in a law suit???

And this is what is wrong with some australian's, this attitude that I can do what I want and how dare you interfere with what I want to do, because I'm so special I get treated differently. Why can't we have a licence for parents so unfit adults can't breed more of the same

Edited February 16, 2010 by Swiss Girl

[curlygirl]

I was walking our two male dogs ( amstaff and a ccr), they wear gentle leaders and walk either side of me as the dont like each other (yet). Walking nicely at my side and I hear oh oh, around the corner comes an old overweight goldie, no lead and its two owners on push bikes.!! I move to one side of the path and make my boys sit, the path is right next to a busy road. Owner shouts are yours friendly, me they dont like each other, is your dog under effective control??. We avoided a problem, my boys didnt react to the goldie or each other but it could have been very different.

[Dfa Dog]

Having such a big dog, I keep my Newf on lead unless it is a designated 'off leash' area. Sometimes I wish I could be like everyone else and just let him go off leash in 'on leash' dog areas, cause he would have so much fun and I trust him on recall, but I see it as inconsiderate to other park users who may not be particularly doggy themselves. I remember being shocked when I was walking my dog on leash in an 'dogs on leash' area of the park when a woman's dog ran right up to mine. Then it's owner yelled at me (there was no need to yell) 'is your dog aggressive?' very accussingly. No, my dog is not aggressive, and if you're worried then don't let your dog run up to others, especially when it should be on the lead!!