As I Walk Through My Suburb

[Diablo]

A very sad story that happened recently in Canberra. An acquaintance was walking his dog aggressive GSD on-lead when a small terrier type dog who was off lead rushed at him and started to bark, snarl and generally be aggressive. The GSD retaliated and ended up picking up the terrier in his jaws and badly damaged (I'm not sure if it was actually killed) it. The owner of the GSD could not get the dog to drop the terrier and was verbally attacked by the owner of the terrier and by-standers, so he immediately took the GSD to the vet and had him PTS. The family were devastated, naturally, but the owner said he couldn't take the chance of it happening again and maybe to a child.

What an irresponsible owner of that poor GSD to give his dogs life for his own stupidity Thing is, you can't take the chance 100% with any dog and the faster people learn this the better. Although it would be upsetting for my dog to hurt another dog in those circumstances it's legally bad luck if an on leash dog attacks an off leash dog who rushes at it. The off leash dog/owner is at fault without question. Large dogs especially guardian breeds when it comes to a scrap will win which is simply the "law of the jungle", and people with smaller dogs who cannot control them properly should NEVER have them off leash or in a position to rush at other dogs with the physical power to badly injure or kill them if things go wrong. It's too late to cry about the big nasty on leash dog that got their uncontrollable ankle biter which they need to think about before letting their dogs of leash in the first place.

[HugUrPup]

OMG there ARE smart people in the world

It's a shame DOL people aren't the ONLY people with dogs *grumbles*

[Diablo]

Frankly the "friendly" dogs are often just as much trouble as the more aggro ones if their owners aren't on the ball.

I agree completely.

In fact I think abnormally sociable dogs can and do contribute to dog aggression problems in other dogs. They have poor social skills and lack boundaries or respect for personal space. I don't know how many dogs I've seen not back off when asked politely so the usually polite dog suddenly learns to become impolite, which leads to all sorts of problems if not handled with consideration.

Totally agree Aidan The amount of truely sociable friendly dogs that have no manners or respect for other dogs personal space is a major problem. Even to the point where a dog isn't enjoying the attention from another dog and may growl and snarl as warning to go away, the other dog doesn't get the message and keep at it until aggression surfaces.

[Diablo]

A very sad story that happened recently in Canberra. An acquaintance was walking his dog aggressive GSD on-lead when a small terrier type dog who was off lead rushed at him and started to bark, snarl and generally be aggressive. The GSD retaliated and ended up picking up the terrier in his jaws and badly damaged (I'm not sure if it was actually killed) it. The owner of the GSD could not get the dog to drop the terrier and was verbally attacked by the owner of the terrier and by-standers, so he immediately took the GSD to the vet and had him PTS. The family were devastated, naturally, but the owner said he couldn't take the chance of it happening again and maybe to a child.

Hi leighw,

I almost seen the same thing in Queanbeyan a few weeks ago.

People who walk an aggressive (DA only I think) GSD were walking passed my house when another couple who own a JRTx (that is never ever onleash and just as aggressive) were walking by. The JRTx raced at the GSD barking and growling and the people with GSD turned to walk in the other direction and crossed the road but the JRTx just kept running in at the GSD trying to snap at it.

I ended up walking out and yelling to the people with the JRTx to "keep it on a lead like the law states they have to."

The JRTx was ignoring it's owners but pulled it's head in when I yelled. Once I noticed I yelled at it again and it ran back to owners who picked it up. The lady owner yelled back and told me to shut up, so I just said "well I'm calling the police now"

They took off and by then GSD was safely down the road but I was so scared it was going to turn out bad at one point.

The people with the GSD have been really trying hard and doing a great job. He looks great and his behaviour has improved since I first seen them walking a few months ago. (I think he is only young, maybe around 2yo to 3yo) I would hate to see something happen to him because the idiot JRTx owners are always walking offlead. (they don't even have a lead with them or a collar on the JRTx to grab him).

People are naturally concerned about what their on leash dog may do, but on leash you are 99.9% safe from wrong doings. If an incident occures from the cause of someone breaking the law having their dog off leash, the on leash dog/owners are not at fault even to the extreme of the on leash dog killing a dog off leash or even biting a person, having a leash around it's neck is the major factor in defence of any reactions that the dog may have done.

[fainty_girl]

It's not the first time I've had someone say something along the lines of "mine needs to be taught". Not by my dog they don't.

I've been told the same when I was trying to get Tilly to behave when a dog was bothering her. I don't want Tilly to think it's ok to snap at a dog when it won't leave her alone and give her space. She's already a handful for me, so I don't want to create another problem to deal with!

[manlynau]

I know exactly how you feel Poodlefan ... my latest one was a gentleman walked past me with his head down hands behind his back purposely walking along and i thought oh good no dog to try and deal with .. until we reached the path a good 20 metres further down the track and walked straight into his poor old dog who obviously couldn't keep up .. the poor old boy/girl took one look at my two, turned and ran in the opposite direction. The owner had to back track a fair way just to get him back... i felt so sorry for the little dog.. i'm left wondering if the man forgot he had a dog?

[poodlefan]

I saw the couple and dog from my OP on tonight's walk. They leashed up and got well out of the way.

Maybe being considered a crazy dog lady ain't all bad.

[MsBex]

Oh dear, I think Sophie is one of those "friendly" dogs. I do try and keep her calm and with me but at 19months she's pretty much still a puppy and just wants to play play play. I do tend to hold her collar until i've asked other owners if i'm fine to let them play together before i let her go bouncing with other dogs - but that's only at leash free parks and I guess i've always figured people taking their dogs to a leash free park with a heap of other dogs are expecting them to be playing and running round like loonies.

There's nothing wrong with being bouncy and friendly, it's how they respond when politely asked to back off by another dog that counts. If they don't get the message then one remedial action you can take is to spend more time walking with older, stable dogs. You can start off on-leash, let them greet politely then start walking straight away. Let the dogs stop and sniff things together but if they start to play, start walking again.

The idea is that they don't ALWAYS have to be bouncy and playful around other dogs. You can gradually allow more freedom, and introduce recalls during social encounters and that sort of thing.

If you know what you're looking for, encourage backing off when asked by another dog or if the other dog looks uncomfortable.

Thanks for this post Aidan

Real, practical advice that can help noob owners like myself who are trying to do the right thing, but not always sure how!!

[fainty_girl]

What shits me thnough is when they respond with something like "If he's aggressive he should be muzzled". Why should my dog be muzzled if he walks at heel, sits at the curb, stays on leash etc and only reacts to other dogs- does not instigate anything?????

I disagree...I think if your dog reacts aggressively towards all dogs and you could not stop a fight from happening if another dog simply approached, then yes I think they should be muzzled.

If either of my dogs consistently showed dog aggression to every dog that approached they would definitely be wearing a muzzle when out.

My dogs don't love every dog they meet, but I know what kinds of dogs they play best with, I also only take my dogs to a very quiet off-leash area, where they may only see 1 or 2 other dogs at most. For me I know that Jessie is OTT with trying to round up small dogs so I now leash her around them if she is too interested in them. Jessie normally has good recall (especially when i've remembered to bring treats) so that is very easy to manage. For Tilly I know that she doesn't tolerate boisterous in your face dogs or anxious dogs, so I try to move away at the park or i'll get Tilly swimming instead, and by the time she paddles back the dog is normally gone.

[BittyMooPeeb]

I feel your pain PF. A couple have moved in near me, adjacent to the school, and they think the school oval is their dog's very own off-lead, unsupervised, exercise area. Once their off-lead dog rushed mine (on lead) and I screamed at the owner, who was sitting on her front fence) to call her dog. She got up, turned around, and walked into the house . I kept hold of her dog and kept shouting, and a few minutes later she came back out .... with a poo bag. She apparently decided that I could hang on to her lunging dog for her while she prepared to pick up his poo. On four other occasions the dog has rushed us with the owners nowhere in sight (I assume they are inside the house) so we cant walk that way any more

ETA: remember the DOL user 'IBite'? Her dog had a t-shirt made up with "I bite" on it. Maybe something similar for Darcy would keep the loons away. Then again, these days someone would probably sue you ...

Edited January 5, 2010 by BittyMooPeeb

[poodlefan]

I feel your pain PF. A couple have moved in near me, adjacent to the school, and they think the school oval is their dog's very own off-lead, unsupervised, exercise area. Once their off-lead dog rushed mine (on lead) and I screamed at the owner, who was sitting on her front fence) to call her dog. She got up, turned around, and walked into the house . I kept hold of her dog and kept shouting, and a few minutes later she came back out .... with a poo bag. She apparently decided that I could hang on to her lunging dog for her while she prepared to pick up his poo. On four other occasions the dog has rushed us with the owners nowhere in sight (I assume they are inside the house) so we cant walk that way any more

ETA: remember the DOL user 'IBite'? Her dog had a t-shirt made up with "I bite" on it. Maybe something similar for Darcy would keep the loons away. Then again, these days someone would probably sue you ...

Is it a primary school oval?

[Diablo]

What shits me thnough is when they respond with something like "If he's aggressive he should be muzzled". Why should my dog be muzzled if he walks at heel, sits at the curb, stays on leash etc and only reacts to other dogs- does not instigate anything?????

I disagree...I think if your dog reacts aggressively towards all dogs and you could not stop a fight from happening if another dog simply approached, then yes I think they should be muzzled.

If either of my dogs consistently showed dog aggression to every dog that approached they would definitely be wearing a muzzle when out.

My dogs don't love every dog they meet, but I know what kinds of dogs they play best with, I also only take my dogs to a very quiet off-leash area, where they may only see 1 or 2 other dogs at most. For me I know that Jessie is OTT with trying to round up small dogs so I now leash her around them if she is too interested in them. Jessie normally has good recall (especially when i've remembered to bring treats) so that is very easy to manage. For Tilly I know that she doesn't tolerate boisterous in your face dogs or anxious dogs, so I try to move away at the park or i'll get Tilly swimming instead, and by the time she paddles back the dog is normally gone.

There are no laws that prevents the ownership of dog aggressive dogs and the law is that the dogs don't react unecessarily which is what a responsible owner abides by. Most owners of DA dog's will avoid other dogs, cross the road, or exercise in areas away from other dogs etc and will always be on leash. The only dogs that could approach a DA dog in those situations is a dog that shouldn't be approaching if it's owner abided by the law, generally an off leash dog with an owner that has no control and recall. I don't agree that a DA dog should be muzzled to enable law breakers to do as they please in safety.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Diablo

[Staffyluv]

Or maybe only a little bit. Even though I have exchanges like this:

Me walking all dogs on lead along cycle path. Up comes an offlead large pilar erect staffy mix with his owners strolling behind him. I put Howard the Happy on point and call out to them

Me: Could you call your dog please

Owner: Oh he's fine.

Me: One of mine is dog aggressive.

Owner: Oh we don't mind if your dog has a go at him. Yours are only small.

Me: Well I mind!

Owner: [pauses] Well he doesn't look very aggressive!

Me: How aggressively would you like him to behave?

Owner: Wanders off.

Bring on winter when I can return to the bush.

There are some very ignorant people out there...

On more than one occasion I have had the pleasure of seeing the looks on the faces of some of these morons at our local park (on lead park and signs are everywhere) when their offlead dog comes running at us and they yell out the rover is friendly - and then I yell back, 'mines not'.... They can't call them back quick enough...

[BittyMooPeeb]

I feel your pain PF. A couple have moved in near me, adjacent to the school, and they think the school oval is their dog's very own off-lead, unsupervised, exercise area. Once their off-lead dog rushed mine (on lead) and I screamed at the owner, who was sitting on her front fence) to call her dog. She got up, turned around, and walked into the house . I kept hold of her dog and kept shouting, and a few minutes later she came back out .... with a poo bag. She apparently decided that I could hang on to her lunging dog for her while she prepared to pick up his poo. On four other occasions the dog has rushed us with the owners nowhere in sight (I assume they are inside the house) so we cant walk that way any more

ETA: remember the DOL user 'IBite'? Her dog had a t-shirt made up with "I bite" on it. Maybe something similar for Darcy would keep the loons away. Then again, these days someone would probably sue you ...

Is it a primary school oval?

Yep. But he is not there when school is in. Neither are we! There is a public area around the school with a footpath (I still cant get over that schools in the ACT are not fenced) and this is where we used to walk.

[sas]

What shits me thnough is when they respond with something like "If he's aggressive he should be muzzled". Why should my dog be muzzled if he walks at heel, sits at the curb, stays on leash etc and only reacts to other dogs- does not instigate anything?????

I disagree...I think if your dog reacts aggressively towards all dogs and you could not stop a fight from happening if another dog simply approached, then yes I think they should be muzzled.

If either of my dogs consistently showed dog aggression to every dog that approached they would definitely be wearing a muzzle when out.

My dogs don't love every dog they meet, but I know what kinds of dogs they play best with, I also only take my dogs to a very quiet off-leash area, where they may only see 1 or 2 other dogs at most. For me I know that Jessie is OTT with trying to round up small dogs so I now leash her around them if she is too interested in them. Jessie normally has good recall (especially when i've remembered to bring treats) so that is very easy to manage. For Tilly I know that she doesn't tolerate boisterous in your face dogs or anxious dogs, so I try to move away at the park or i'll get Tilly swimming instead, and by the time she paddles back the dog is normally gone.

You're living in La La land.....if I'm walking down the street with my dog on lead and your dog is off lead and appraoches mine and my dog reacts to your dog YOU are the one in the wrong.

You're taking this conversation to a whole different level and it doesn't need to go there.

[megan_]

I feel your pain PF. A couple have moved in near me, adjacent to the school, and they think the school oval is their dog's very own off-lead, unsupervised, exercise area. Once their off-lead dog rushed mine (on lead) and I screamed at the owner, who was sitting on her front fence) to call her dog. She got up, turned around, and walked into the house . I kept hold of her dog and kept shouting, and a few minutes later she came back out .... with a poo bag. She apparently decided that I could hang on to her lunging dog for her while she prepared to pick up his poo. On four other occasions the dog has rushed us with the owners nowhere in sight (I assume they are inside the house) so we cant walk that way any more

ETA: remember the DOL user 'IBite'? Her dog had a t-shirt made up with "I bite" on it. Maybe something similar for Darcy would keep the loons away. Then again, these days someone would probably sue you ...

The problem with "I Bite" and "My dog will attack yours" is that it reinforces negative stereotypes about dogs (if your dog isn't DA) and people think that responsible owners who obey the laws have 'out of control" dogs while idiots who let their dog's roam have "he's just being friendly" dogs. I love the "he has kennel cough" line: a lot of owners don't seem to care if their dog gets attacked, but they would care about large vet bills and a coughing dog all night. And there are no negative stereotypes about the dog's temperament.

[Kavik]

What shits me thnough is when they respond with something like "If he's aggressive he should be muzzled". Why should my dog be muzzled if he walks at heel, sits at the curb, stays on leash etc and only reacts to other dogs- does not instigate anything?????

I disagree...I think if your dog reacts aggressively towards all dogs and you could not stop a fight from happening if another dog simply approached, then yes I think they should be muzzled.

If either of my dogs consistently showed dog aggression to every dog that approached they would definitely be wearing a muzzle when out.

My dogs don't love every dog they meet, but I know what kinds of dogs they play best with, I also only take my dogs to a very quiet off-leash area, where they may only see 1 or 2 other dogs at most. For me I know that Jessie is OTT with trying to round up small dogs so I now leash her around them if she is too interested in them. Jessie normally has good recall (especially when i've remembered to bring treats) so that is very easy to manage. For Tilly I know that she doesn't tolerate boisterous in your face dogs or anxious dogs, so I try to move away at the park or i'll get Tilly swimming instead, and by the time she paddles back the dog is normally gone.

Zoe doesn't like ANY dogs, but since she is only exercised on leash when off my property and I avoid other dogs (go into a driveway, cross the road etc when I see another dog approach) I don't see why she should be muzzled? As I only walk the streets and not off lead areas, any dogs that actually get close enough to cause a fight would be off lead against the law ( or stupid owners with those flexi leads who don't listen to me say don't allow your dog to approach).

[mysticpaw]

We were walking last Sunday morning and a dog rushed across the street and attacked the girls.

As we walked up the footpath there was a car with doors open adults and kids, and all I could think of is I bet there is a dog running around somewhere. Sure enough there was, the thing that got me was they appeared to bend down to grab it, we slowed down and it all looked good. Dog goes to the kerb, adults turn their back on the dog, we yell "get your dog"

Dog crosses street attacks one of ours, owner comes over and starts kicking wildly in the air.

A few words were exchanged about having control over your dog and having a leash on it.

He got really angry, blamed the kids for leaving the gate open as they were packing to go on holiday. "The dog is old, cranky and doesn't like other dogs." Things happen, I understand that. What annoyed me is we had four dogs, one of which couldn't put her weight on her front leg and was wimpering. I had to get the other two home and get the car to drive back to the vets.

Mr MP had to carry Tala to the vet, not far but still she is 20kilo and hold onto the other girl.

I would have thought that they could have offered us a lift to the vets, or dropped me home with the other two.

The other thing that concerned me, if that had been a smaller dog, and not ours it could have been a disaster.

Thanks for the thread, gave me a chance to vent, have been stewing all week.

[superminty]

What shits me thnough is when they respond with something like "If he's aggressive he should be muzzled". Why should my dog be muzzled if he walks at heel, sits at the curb, stays on leash etc and only reacts to other dogs- does not instigate anything?????

I disagree...I think if your dog reacts aggressively towards all dogs and you could not stop a fight from happening if another dog simply approached, then yes I think they should be muzzled.

If either of my dogs consistently showed dog aggression to every dog that approached they would definitely be wearing a muzzle when out.

I actually think this is a fair call BUT an idealistic idea.

I don't muzzle my DA dog despite the fact that he will react to 98% of dogs if they got in his face (meaning the dog approaches close enough for contact) for the following reasons:

* wearing a muzzle affects his demeanour and automatically puts him into avoidance - I don't want a dog that avoids, I want a dog that actively and confidently chooses to exhibit another behaviour. Once in avoidance mode, his attention goes into avoiding the dog instead of into engaging with me, and if the dog passes his threshold, the resulting "fit" is much more pronounced than usual (probably to do with the suppression of emotion going on while he is in avoidance). When he is actively choosing another behaviour, I can work him side by side, almost touching, another dog. When he is avoiding, he will have a go at any dog within the length of the lead (6 ft).

* I cannot treat the way I want to with a muzzle on my dog i.e. rapid fire

* You cannot run a dog in a muzzle - well, I won't, for health reasons.

* I walk my dog for both of our enjoyment and he does not enjoy wearing a muzzle. I'm sure that I could train him to enjoy it, but I don't really see that is necessary.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but just wanted to show that there are a myriad of reasons why someone with a DA dog may choose not to muzzle.

[Malamum]

I won't walk my dog aggressive dog in a muzzle either. He hates wearing it and due to his arthritis only gets limited walks anyway, so I'm at least going to let him get some enjoyment out of them.

Like other posters have said I only walk along the street, avoid any off leash areas and keep a keen eye out for other dogs. If we see one approaching we cross the street or move into a driveway etc. If his critical distance is observed he will go into a drop and stay there until the other dog has passed.

The only potential for a problem is people who are breaking the law with their off leash out of control dogs.