K9 Pro Training In Drive

[Starkehre]

gsdog, why don't you just send Steve an email and ask him some of your questions and see how you go with that for starters or even give him a call.

Best idea.

He is really easy to talk to on the phone and will take the time to answer all your questions.

After the great replies I've had (not one negative ) I will contact him tomorrow - only I didn't realise I'd be able to speak to Steve (he sounds like a very busy person ;) )

I think he is usually free for talking around 3-4ish, not sure though.

[luvsdogs]

I have 2 questions, is it all positive training? and how much does it cost?

[Starkehre]

I have 2 questions, is it all positive training? and how much does it cost?

It has been a while since I did it, but as I remember it, no aversives are used at all during building drive as you can easily destroy the drive you are creating. All positive, no corrections.

I'm sorry I don't remember the price.

[gsdog2]

I have 2 questions, is it all positive training? and how much does it cost?

Have PM'd you re. price

Edited January 4, 2010 by gsdog2

[ness]

Prices are on the website luvsdogs.

[huski]

I have completed it... although I don't think you will get to trialling this year if you start it! If you're anything like me or Huski (on this forum, who is almost finished) it's taken us something like 12 months to reach the fine tuning/proofing stage with our dogs!

I love training in drive, can't wait to get another puppy so I can do it all over again. But I will warn you it's hard work and a bit different to 'normal' training programs. I highly recommend it to anyone with a high (prey or food) drive dog. A good way to I guess test it out a bit is to get along to one of Steve's workshops and see it in real life.

For a bit of an idea on the training involved and also a bit of the final outcome check out my youtube channel (or Huski's as she has more videos than I do!). My link is: http://www.youtube.com/nicoleleyden and you can probably find Huski's in the youtube thread.

What Seita said

Although what my utube channel has in quantity hers makes up for in quality! ;)

I agree it's hard work and it does take time, but the result is definitely worth it - if you stick to the program and follow Steve's advice, it's a course you really need to dedicate yourself to otherwise you will not get the results you want.

Thanks everyone for the quick replies -

Seita it was huski who suggested the course. I didn't realise there was a course on prey drive .

(love the clip by the way )

How long is a module (for a slow learner )

Each module is done at your (and your dog's) pace.

You can either do it with prey drive (i.e. a toy) or food drive, depending on your dog's strongest natural drive.

I completed the distance module on training in drive with Steve from K9Force. I can highly recommend the course and find Steve very personable, always prepared to help and an absolutely wealth of knowledge and experience.

My bitch Dyzney had very little drive, as for many years I had been quashing any drive during training, as part of the way

dyzney she has heaps of drive at the moment, and that's my concern, how am I going to handle it?

The training in drive course is not only for developing drive as in my situation, but to harness and control it. You speak to Steve about your concerns and he will design the programme specifically to suit your needs.

My boy has plenty of drive also, and he is responding well to the training.

I think you would be thrilled you did it.

What Dyzney said - you learn to harness and control drive, and it gives your dog a positive outlet for it's drive.

is it all positive training?

You don't give corrections when building drive or really when you're training in drive because you don't want to do anything to decrease drive, although I do use a no reward marker.

[gsdog2]

That's the thing Huski she is ball obsessed, her life revolves around balls, any ball! But that's where the difficulty is for me, trying to get some sort of handle (can't think of a better word ) on this obsession she has. We have three dogs and I have to lock the other two up to throw the ball for her because she's so worried they're going to get to it first! When I train her I have a vest on with huge pockets to "hide" the ball and she watches my "pocket" waiting for the ball to appear. To me that's a great sign and I'm glad she loves the ball so much, but I need someone to guide me as to what to do with all this drive.

Also, can I still go to our other classes? I really enjoy them, it's a really nice group of trainers (and dogs) and I'd hate to give it up

[huski]

That's the thing Huski she is ball obsessed, her life revolves around balls, any ball! But that's where the difficulty is for me, trying to get some sort of handle (can't think of a better word ) on this obsession she has. We have three dogs and I have to lock the other two up to throw the ball for her because she's so worried they're going to get to it first! When I train her I have a vest on with huge pockets to "hide" the ball and she watches my "pocket" waiting for the ball to appear. To me that's a great sign and I'm glad she loves the ball so much, but I need someone to guide me as to what to do with all this drive.

Also, can I still go to our other classes? I really enjoy them, it's a really nice group of trainers (and dogs) and I'd hate to give it up

I wouldn't go to classes in the beginning when you are building drive - you need to get her to a certain point before gradually introducing distractions again.

Even now, when I am planning to go back to my obedience club this year for some distraction training and ring run outs, I won't ever do a full one hour class again as it's just too long for Daisy and not structured in the way I would train anyway.

[gsdog2]

I wouldn't go to classes in the beginning when you are building drive - you need to get her to a certain point before gradually introducing distractions again.

Even now, when I am planning to go back to my obedience club this year for some distraction training and ring run outs, I won't ever do a full one hour class again as it's just too long for Daisy and not structured in the way I would train anyway.

I have just sent an email to Steve, so I've taken the first step

It's true, there aren't many classes around that work on food/prey drive. Maybe I should leave her at home and go on my own

I like the fact that she's a very social dog, and having had not so social dogs, I would hate for her to lose that friendliness by not mixing with many dogs, as she does when training in a class.

[huski]

I have just sent an email to Steve, so I've taken the first step

It's true, there aren't many classes around that work on food/prey drive. Maybe I should leave her at home and go on my own

I like the fact that she's a very social dog, and having had not so social dogs, I would hate for her to lose that friendliness by not mixing with many dogs, as she does when training in a class.

Personally I never let Daisy play with other dogs when we are training. She's a friendly easy going dog, although she's not overly fussed with other dogs, I don't like to encourage her to see other dogs as a distraction she can engage with when we're training.

[gsdog2]

Personally I never let Daisy play with other dogs when we are training. She's a friendly easy going dog, although she's not overly fussed with other dogs, I don't like to encourage her to see other dogs as a distraction she can engage with when we're training.

I also don't agree with playing/interaction with other dogs at training, but I have owned dogs that I've had to watch all the time because they would be "watching" the other dogs. After being on constant alert with them (they were males) my female is totally relaxed with other dogs and after my two males I really don't want her to lose that confidence. When I say "mixing" I mean in a class situation with different breeds, sexes and temperament of dogs where she doesn't show any stress or concern at all - not "playing"

[Got Spots]

I have signed up for TID for this year starting soon with my 18mo whippet - I figured that Huski has done such an awesome job with Daisy I might see some improvement in a very anxious timid whippet.

A quick question:

i thought initially she is prey driven - being a whippet, and she does love playing with her squirrel tail ball, and I have been working on her to get her to tug and she is improving.

but now I can't decide b/c I did some basic training the other day with cooked chicken and her focus was great so I was thinking that it may be food drive that I work with.

At training she does better with food than prey - too nervous to tug at training but I haven't really got the drive up or done the work with prey

[luvsdogs]

Thanks for the replies. I will have a proper look at Steve's site when I'm not so tired. I just didn't want to ruin another bc to harsh training methods.

[sas]

Does anybody think its worth attempting with an older dog . Obviously I am not about to pull her out of the ring for 12 months as she doesn't have that sort of time on her hands but have been wondering if it might be of some even limited benefit.

I did it with a 7 year old, she was fab.

[Starkehre]

Does anybody think its worth attempting with an older dog . Obviously I am not about to pull her out of the ring for 12 months as she doesn't have that sort of time on her hands but have been wondering if it might be of some even limited benefit.

Ness, I did it with my undriven 6 year old rotti, brilliant result. She was so soft I would not correct her and she would go to pieces, heeling was like, well, she looked like I had been beating her up, she hated it, obviously my doing, but I didn't know how to fix it. Head was low, she lagged and was extremely disinterested. Everything was fine, but had not entered an obedience trial her whole life because of the heeling alone.

Training in drive has sorted it all out for us. As she only responds and responds well to food, we have used food drive to train.

I can now show her the chicken wing outside the ring, take her in her class and complete it, then let her have the win afterwards (remote reward) and she is fired the entire time. focused on my like never before, happy, fast working and responsive.

Edited January 4, 2010 by dyzney

[huski]

Personally I never let Daisy play with other dogs when we are training. She's a friendly easy going dog, although she's not overly fussed with other dogs, I don't like to encourage her to see other dogs as a distraction she can engage with when we're training.

I also don't agree with playing/interaction with other dogs at training, but I have owned dogs that I've had to watch all the time because they would be "watching" the other dogs. After being on constant alert with them (they were males) my female is totally relaxed with other dogs and after my two males I really don't want her to lose that confidence. When I say "mixing" I mean in a class situation with different breeds, sexes and temperament of dogs where she doesn't show any stress or concern at all - not "playing" :D

Ah I get you now!

If she's a happy well socialised dog I don't think taking her out of obedience classes for a few months will change that, it certainly didn't with Daisy. She also had other time to socialise around dogs if she wanted to, at DOL meets etc. I will go back to obed club this year but only for the distraction factor that other dogs present.

I have signed up for TID for this year starting soon with my 18mo whippet - I figured that Huski has done such an awesome job with Daisy I might see some improvement in a very anxious timid whippet.

A quick question:

i thought initially she is prey driven - being a whippet, and she does love playing with her squirrel tail ball, and I have been working on her to get her to tug and she is improving.

but now I can't decide b/c I did some basic training the other day with cooked chicken and her focus was great so I was thinking that it may be food drive that I work with.

At training she does better with food than prey - too nervous to tug at training but I haven't really got the drive up or done the work with prey

Neats, Daisy has a reasonable prey drive too, but her food drive is much stronger.

I think Shoemonster found that after doing TID with food with Ed, he is now more eager to tug because he's a lot more confident.

And Daisy says thanks for the compliment :)

Thanks for the replies. I will have a proper look at Steve's site when I'm not so tired. I just didn't want to ruin another bc to harsh training methods.

Definitely nothing harsh about TID :D

Does anybody think its worth attempting with an older dog . Obviously I am not about to pull her out of the ring for 12 months as she doesn't have that sort of time on her hands but have been wondering if it might be of some even limited benefit.

Ness, I did it with my undriven 6 year old rotti, brilliant result. She was so soft I would not correct her and she would go to pieces, heeling was like, well, she looked like I had been beating her up, she hated it, obviously my doing, but I didn't know how to fix it. Head was low, she lagged and was extremely disinterested. Everything was fine, but had not entered an obedience trial her whole life because of the heeling alone.

Training in drive has sorted it all out for us. As she only responds and responds well to food, we have used food drive to train.

I can now show her the chicken wing outside the ring, take her in her class and complete it, then let her have the win afterwards (remote reward) and she is fired the entire time. focused on my like never before, happy, fast working and responsive.

Would love to see a video of Dyzney if you have one! She sounds amazing!

[Starkehre]

hehe huski, I don't do video, I am camera shy Steve and I have an "in joke" about it too. He is always asking for one, but knows by now that he won't get it.

I might be gutsy and pop up a couple of photos though.

No, Dyz is far from brilliant, she now forges a little at times (Steve has explained why she is doing that, she preempts her remote reward), but hey, I am not all that fussed about a little forging at this low level as yet, and compared to what we have, I LOVE it.

I have always had this real hang up wit heeling work, and have been training dogs and competing in obedience for about 18 years (have been out of it for a while though) and it has always been my nemesis.

Finally "getting it" has been like all my dreams come true.

And if you knew what poor Dyzney has been through (many on here do) she nearly died last year to IMT, and was retired, and to have her come back at 6 and a half and enjoy working again, it is a real buzz.

Husky, you should have seen her at her first trial in the stays.

There was only 2 others in her class as it was at out resteicted trail. Both the other dogs got up and started sniffing her all over. The judge took her time to send the handlers back, and they took their time getting back as one was afraid her dog would take off when she tried to grab it. anyway, Dyz had to tolerate this for about 45 seconds, and she did not move. I could see she was intimidated, and I was about to cry with love and pity for her and go back to her anyway, but the dogs finally got moved, and she stuck it out. I have never been more proud in my life.

That was our 95 pass. I was emotional for a whole week with my passion for how much a love Dyzney and how good a dog she is.

Rambling now, but if you knew what we went through when she was sick, it was living hell.

she is such a special girl.

I am really looking forward to hearing how Daisy goes trialling. I know you will do really well.

I must check out some of your utube stuff.

OOps, I thought there were links. Do you have anything I can have a loom at Huski please?

Edited January 4, 2010 by dyzney

[huski]

Dyzney she sounds amazing! What a clever girl she is :D

I have some videos up on my youtube channel, nothing very good up there yet though I have a LOT of work to do on my handling skills as I've never trialled before :D You are welcome to have a look though. I am mainly just pleased with Daisy's ability to focus and work so happily, it used to be a serious struggle to get any focus (that nose goes into over drive!) and now it's so much easier.

http://www.youtube.com/user/becandmicha

We haven't started teaching attention yet, so we still have a fair bit to go through.

Edited January 4, 2010 by huski

[Starkehre]

Huski, thanks for that.

Daisy is working extremely well. It is so hard to get continual focus from Beagles, like you say, just to keep her nose up is a chore in itself. You have done a great job. I can see that this time next year you will have at least one title beside her name and be on your way to CD also.

Her biggest distraction seems to be when she speaks, cute but.

Well done. You must be very pleased.

Edited January 4, 2010 by dyzney

[kayla1]

Agree with other people’s comments – it’s fantastic. Best thing I could do with my dogs.

I spent ages on the first module because even though Annie had a high prey drive for birds and small creatures, she had no interest whatsoever in toys or balls. So it took months to build her drive for toys and then transfer it to something that could be used. Annie is only 5kg and we now use a small i-squeak ball. She lives for her training sessions.