No Drive? [long Post]

[loeka]

Hey again : )

About my kelpie x - I tried finding similar posts on this topic but I only found the opposite: TOO MUCH PREY DRIVE and I think we have too little. So we're getting to know Loeka better and we find something very peculiar: he doesn't seem to like playing or chew toys!

A few examples:

1. Sometimes he will play fetch/run after a toy - but more often than not he will either ignore it or run after it only to be distracted by grass or a houseplant.
   
2. He doesn't really care much for his kong - we have stuffed with various things. He will give it a go for a minute and then he ignores it again.
   
3. He LOVES grass, plants and leaves. He is content to sit there and eat grass or just sniff around the garden and try out various plants.
   
4. The only chewtoy he liked was a cheap rubbery squeaky one that I had to throw away after a day because he had ripped it to shreds. Other than that, chewtoys seem to bore him.
   

Things he seems to like:

1. Food. He's a bit like a lab and I wonder if he only follows me everywhere because I feed him ; ) It works well with training though because he definitely give me his focus when he knows there may be treats involved.
   
2. Chasing. (I make sure he chases me only and that he has to touch my hand with his nose and sit at the end - this way hopefully he will never run after someone and bite them - but please correct me if chasing is a bad thing!)
   

Maybe he just doesn't see the VALUE in toys so we tried making it really exciting and OMG WE WANNA PLAY WITH IT TOO kinda thing and we definitely praise him (with treats) when he retrieves an object. Also when he chews something bad like the couch we offer him a chew toy instead.

• So am I just paranoid?
  
• Is he just being a puppy with a short attention span?
  
• He's only 12 weeks so maybe the chewtoys are too tough for him to chew and so he loses interest?
  
• Is there a way to awaken his 'prey drive'?
  
• Is it normal for a kelpie to sniff the ground (he LOVES sniffing things - he goes inhale, inhale, EXHALE really loudly) and be SOOOOO interested in botany?
  

Thanks in advanced!

Naomi

[MrToby]

Maybe he is just hot like the rest of us atm. I know i do not feel like running around after a ball right now. Try playing with him inside, in the cool and see if he sparks up a little.

[mrs tornsocks]

I wouldn't be too concerned - if you have a decent food drive, your training should be made easier.

What's your longer term 'plan' for your dog in terms of building his prey drive ?

[loeka]

Maybe he is just hot like the rest of us atm. I know i do not feel like running around after a ball right now. Try playing with him inside, in the cool and see if he sparks up a little.

Good point - too bad I don't have AC. Although I think its cooler outside the QLDer than inside (It's raining at the moment, thankfully)

I wouldn't be too concerned - if you have a decent food drive, your training should be made easier.

What's your longer term 'plan' for your dog in terms of building his prey drive ?

True - Training is going well because he likes food. We'd be in trouble otherwise ; )

You ask a good question. I guess the reasons why I would want to build his prey drive are so that he can be trained with objects as well as with food; he's a kelpie x collie and he is going to need to release his energy as he gets older, I want him to be able to channel that energy through things like fetch and frisbeeing because unfortunately we cannot offer him a herd of sheep. Also, those kinds of games are fun for us as well. I don't know if it's possible to build up a prey drive though...

Btw, thanks for the replies...

[mrs tornsocks]

I am no expert on prey drive at all but I think the main thing is very short bursts at that age. I remember thinking we had a 'dud' lab (not really but you know what I mean) because he didn't retrieve consistently as a young pup. And when he did, it was only after really specific toys.

Now, at 9 months, he goes back and forth all day retrieving.

After doing a little bit of reading on retrieving, it's continually stressed not to work with the dog to the point of boredom (ie distraction). Even if that means he only runs after the toy twice because on the second retrieve he gets distracted, end the game.

And your points about concentration span and age (ie he gets tired and hot quickly) are probably the most pertinent.

Edited January 3, 2010 by mrs tornsocks

[persephone]

I

Well done in thinking of what your dog may need! ..however, re: drive- if you don't see evidence of it- and he seems happy- why encourage it? !!!

My suggestion would be to keep him low key and calm.. that way it becomes a habit

yes, he may well become energetic and driven.... but he may not.

His instincts may be satisfied by playing 'find the food games'... sniffing out trails, playing that game of the three flowerpots- where food is under one ...gaining food by dropping/ rolling over, all that sort of thing.

Not all herding working dogs are hyper...

he will be affected by the heat- and he DOES have a very short attention span currently.. encourage/praise the calmness while you have the opportunity!!

Edited January 3, 2010 by persephone

[poodlefan]

He's a baby with the attention span of a gnat.

Use whatever motivates him NOW to train him but keep it very short. He may develop more drive as he matures. Baby puppies don't hunt.

[Dogsfevr]

Chasing. (I make sure he chases me only and that he has to touch my hand with his nose and sit at the end - this way hopefully he will never run after someone and bite them - but please correct me if chasing is a bad thing!)

This wont stop him .Training him to be a good offleash dog requires time/training & exposure to more interesting things to ensure the dog does focus on your commands.

Dogs just dont go & bite unless there is an issue in upbringing or a previous incident.

Many dogs hate kiongs,they smell,there heavy & very boring.

Not one of my dogs will touch them.

he is a baby .the more you over expect the more you will think there is an issue.dont make things completed when there not.

yes he's a kelpie cross but that doesnt mean he will be a nutter with high drive latter one.We board alot of kelpie crosses & many a couch potatoe's

[corvus]

What about tug? Will he play tug with you? You could try with something soft and wriggly, like just a rag. Wiggle it on the ground and jerk it away from him in little enticing movements. My Lappie is a couch potato, but he'll still go for movement.

Have you tried a plastic bottle? Both my dogs love plastic bottles. They skid around on the floor unpredictably and make a fun noise when you finally catch them and crunch them. This afternoon Erik found an old milk bottle in the recycling box and spent the next 30 minutes chasing it all over the house.

Mine also like cardboard. They rip it up into little pieces. Toilet rolls and egg cartons are favourites.

[Nekhbet]

chasing is prey drive in a form. You have to teach a puppy to focus on toys etc it doesnt come naturally in most dogs. He has prey drive as well as some herding instinct (remember he's more a herding breed then a guarding breed which will want to actually grab hold of the item)

Put a rag on a line, run with it and encourage him to chase it. He will get the drift as you go along it is something to play tug with then you can change it over to other toys.

Chewing on kongs etc is not prey drive. If he's not interested then feed him only out of the kong, he's probably not hungry enough to hold his attention for that long

[loeka]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I really appreciate it. I realise now that I expect way too much of this pup and I just gotta let him be who he is.

After doing a little bit of reading on retrieving, it's continually stressed not to work with the dog to the point of boredom (ie distraction). Even if that means he only runs after the toy twice because on the second retrieve he gets distracted, end the game.

Thanks for the info and it makes total sense. I'm keeping this in mind for next time.

His instincts may be satisfied by playing 'find the food games'... sniffing out trails, playing that game of the three flowerpots- where food is under one ...gaining food by dropping/ rolling over, all that sort of thing.

Thanks for the kind reply, Persephone. Finding food games is an awesome idea! I would have never thought of it.

Baby puppies don't hunt.

That's a really good point. However, I thought that some drive would be innate. I've seen (though not raised) many a pup playing with bits of string and balls and the likes and wrongfully assumed all pups were like that. OOPS.

he is a baby .the more you over expect the more you will think there is an issue.dont make things completed when there not.

yes he's a kelpie cross but that doesnt mean he will be a nutter with high drive latter one.We board alot of kelpie crosses & many a couch potatoe's

In other words, I gotta relax I will - it's hard because it's my first dog and I just don't want to screw it up.

Out of curiosity, what has been the strangest kelpie cross you've ever come across?

What about tug? Will he play tug with you? You could try with something soft and wriggly, like just a rag. Wiggle it on the ground and jerk it away from him in little enticing movements. My Lappie is a couch potato, but he'll still go for movement.

Have you tried a plastic bottle? Both my dogs love plastic bottles. They skid around on the floor unpredictably and make a fun noise when you finally catch them and crunch them. This afternoon Erik found an old milk bottle in the recycling box and spent the next 30 minutes chasing it all over the house.

Mine also like cardboard. They rip it up into little pieces. Toilet rolls and egg cartons are favourites.

Actually, he does like plastic bottles, especially the hard coca cola ones. He plays with them by himself but not often.

I will try tug with something small and soft - maybe I can teach him how to give at the same time ; )

We game him a whole cardboard box and I expected it to be shredded within a day but all it did was get soggy in the rain and get a few bite marks here or there haha... so for now, cardboard is a fail : (

chasing is prey drive in a form. You have to teach a puppy to focus on toys etc it doesnt come naturally in most dogs. He has prey drive as well as some herding instinct (remember he's more a herding breed then a guarding breed which will want to actually grab hold of the item)

Put a rag on a line, run with it and encourage him to chase it. He will get the drift as you go along it is something to play tug with then you can change it over to other toys.

Chewing on kongs etc is not prey drive. If he's not interested then feed him only out of the kong, he's probably not hungry enough to hold his attention for that long

That's another fantastic idea for a game. Are there other games which incorporate his herding instinct?

[corvus]

Are there other games which incorporate his herding instinct?

Frisbee!

[dancinbcs]

I

Well done in thinking of what your dog may need! ..however, re: drive- if you don't see evidence of it- and he seems happy- why encourage it? !!!

My suggestion would be to keep him low key and calm.. that way it becomes a habit

yes, he may well become energetic and driven.... but he may not.

His instincts may be satisfied by playing 'find the food games'... sniffing out trails, playing that game of the three flowerpots- where food is under one ...gaining food by dropping/ rolling over, all that sort of thing.

Not all herding working dogs are hyper...

he will be affected by the heat- and he DOES have a very short attention span currently.. encourage/praise the calmness while you have the opportunity!!

Absolutely agree with this post.

Some dogs are just not interested in toys. I have had numerous related Border Collies and they are all different in their attitude to toys. My current two are mother and son and they are like chalk and cheese with their attitude to life. The mother, now 9, still herds lizards and pigeons and wants to play ball, frisbie, tug or whatever is at hand. Take her out somewhere for a run and she just hangs around me. Her son has no interest in her activities other than playing tug and zoomies with her. He ignores all the things she herds and had zero interest in balls, frisbies, etc. He does like to tear up milk cartons, soft toys,etc and anything else he knows he is allowed to. When taken for a run he likes to really stretch his legs and run and delights in chasing swallows which his mum ignores.

Both of these dogs like to herd sheep but at home they are easy going and not hard to live with. They can both be trained with food and praise but neither of them work for toys. The mum simply forgets what you want her to do when she sees a toy and her son has no interest.

On the other hand I have had a dog so obsessed with toys and training that he lived to work and his absolute favourite was a seek back to play with a squeaky toy. In the park he would walk backwards in front of me just in case I asked him to seek for a toy I had dropped. He was a fantastic obedience dog but very hard to live with because he was always "on".

Just let your puppy be whatever he will be. Hopefully he will be the laid back sort and so long as he is food motivated training will easy.

[flux]

Hi there,

I just wanted to add in that when we brough home Jazz our rough collie, we were a bit worried about her lack of motivation. She would seriously chew something meekly for half a minute then go all snoozy. My parents (who own a border collie) actually mocked us and our sedate little rough collie, but I found she was pretty happy to sleep and chew n chase in slow motion right up until about 13-14 weeks, then she finally seemed to get more energy. Ha ha I can remember her walking brilliantly on a lead with us as a young pup and thinking "oh yeah I'm the lead master" then yeah, she got older, found her feet and energy and we are back to square one!! Now it's zoomies on a walk, zoomies after lunch and heck more zoomies in the afternoon because the sun is shining. (zoomie is a great word I've poached from a few on this board, love it!). So I would say with my limited experience, enjoy the calm and encourage it and get ready to enjoy the next more busy stage

[loeka]

I wanted to thank everyone again for replying and also to give a short update: you were all so right. He's much more interested in toys now and he's becoming more and more fixated on chasing frisbees and balls. His attention span is still short but not like it used to be. So YAY! In retrospect I feel so silly for being so concerned : P