Coat/ Skin Problems

[sas]

Hair Analysis via hands over the hair and getting energy readings? *shakes head* Perhaps that $ is better spent at the Dermatologist...

I think the hair analysis technique that they are referring to is a physical analysis of a sample of the hair to a laboratory and a subsequent breakdown of minerals, chemical levels and such that build up in the hair strand itself over time ... its a common tool (and becoming more common) used for humans by Naturopaths (and some Herbalists) at the moment ....

Yeah I don't think they were....What's commonly available and advertised is the one that is done by hands over energy...

If they were, it would be great if they could post a link.....

I don't think that's the way Barry Templeton analysis hair samples. From what I gather, machines are used. There is something to do with vibration energy or something or other, but I think it is the way Fiona describes it above.

Maybe worth asking exactly who the anyalsis is done so you know for yourself?

i wasn't referring to Barry though, the first time I heard of him was just the other week when he was mentioned in a thread.

[zayda_asher]

Seems to be more and more common.

Breeding allergic dogs is only now starting to become frowned upon.

People keep this kind of info to themselves, sadly and I don't want to generalise, it's more pet owners who talk openly about such problems.

Yeah, as I said before, it is very much the same in AmStaffs... Hopefully, we can open up the dialogue on it a bit more as we go...

[zayda_asher]

I know of a Breeder whose bitches allergies were really good when she was pregnant.

Hormones are an interesting thing aren't they.

Dante is desexed now, his skin is no better or worse than when he was entire.

Yeah, they are... its like women where some have better skin whilst preggers, and others break out. From the stuff I've seen I think the impact is considered more so on bitches going through seasons, than on males who should have a more "standard" level of hormones.

I can't say with my guys if its made a difference or not, as they were both done before they full symptom pattern had developed. I can say that they have both worsened / changed with age (developed more allergies and / or become more sensitive). Zayda also had generalised demodex as a pup, and season cycles have been known to trigger relapses with that too. I can say that we have never had a relapse with that, but again, that's hardly conclusive.

Edited January 8, 2010 by zayda_asher

[kevlar]

I am a bit stuck at the moment as to what is going on with Boo's coat.

He is supposed to be a black dog and was until about 7 months and since then he has been more chocolate brown on his sides but stays black on the topline, tail and head etc. Sunbaking can be ruled out generally as he is like this even in winter and he does not spend a lot of time outside. He's now 17 months.

I have tried using special black coat shampoos which would deal with it if sunbleaching but without any change.

He does shed a lot and he gets frequent brushing with a curry comb and occasionally a stripping brush.

Diet is currently Eagle Pack Fish. We have tried several other super premiums and even Bonnie without any change.

His coat seems quite thin. Might also be relevant that he does get anxiety.

The photos show what his skin has just done - the day I dropped him off at the kennels for several days he came up all lumpy - like hives but they went down with phenergen but he has been left with his skin looking like that shown. Seems confined to his hind quarters. he still has a few lumps there - they are only raised - not red, infected etc - nothing squeezable!

In addition - for a while now he has had these leopard spots around his topline.

The other thing at the moment is his topline - the hair here is thicker and longer and black but when you brush it backwards, there seems to be bald areas.

He has been a dog which has been hard to keep weight on from the start and I am sure that there is some diet component to the coat so am waiting to see if the eagle pack changes this. He is now getting a larger dose of fish oils.

Last month he went through an itchy phase - cannot determine whether it is seasonal allergy as it is short lived and coincides with trees in my street in flower (he gets the red eyes too) or whether he reacts more than usual to fleas - he had a few despite treatment. He's been home 2 days now and no itching.

So - anyone experienced anything like this and what treatments etc helped? I'd love him to have the nice glossy black coat he is supposed to have.

Maybe a dietary deficiency of the amino acids tyrosine, tryptophan, essential for making melanin. Is this a dane or a lab? If it's a lab, it looks like it's missing the outer coat.

[choc_bordercollie]

Hi,

An interseting thread, I have a border collie who is turning 9 in April and he coat is the same if not worse. It all started after she had her last litter of pups and was desexed when she had her emergency c-section.

her litter was born in jan 2008 and her coat has just gotten worse and worse, we took her to our vet and she had a thyroid test, and a full blood count. and nothing showed up so she was put on antibiotics and a steroid for 3 weeks and still it didn't work. we have tried different diet's, from a raw diet to an oily fishy diet, and also pro plan. still no change. have even had her on a multi vitamin and also tried eggs.

If anyone has any ideas that would be great

Sorry to hijack

[kevlar]

Have you checked for parasites (fecal and skin)?

[Jed]

I would also consider having blood work done. It's highly unlilkely, but copper deficiency causes reddening of the coat, though he seems to have more than that. I would also consider giving him a mineral/vitamin supplement if he isn't on one already.

Chicken, beans, organs (liver, kidney etc) and grains are rich in copper, so a deficiency is unlikely, but trying a good supplement, or giving him Vit C could help.

[Erny]

As a somewhat unhelpful update (and hoping I don't jinx myself by speaking too soon), I am beginning to think I am noticing improvement after administration of the meds prescribed by Mr. Barry Templeton (hair analysis person).

It is difficult to determine because Mandela still receives the naturopath medications as well - and they have helped, but very much on a gradual basis, which was to be expected.

It is also difficult to know whether the more dramatic improvements would have occurred as a natural process of Mandela's condition, even without meds.

However, in a very short time after administering the first of the first lot of meds, I noticed better signs. Poor coat condition and hives remained. Eating still irratic, although quantity, when he did eat, increased. Meds were administered for 2 weeks. Then a further hair sample submitted for analysis.

Second hair analysis report claims that liver function is now normal and focus is on coat condition/hives as well as stomach discomfort.

We have a second lot of meds to treat these things. Started these meds Sunday night. Vastly more energetic yesterday and even more so today. (Not that he was what I'd call lethargic beforehand - it's just that he seems more vibrant, almost bursting with vigour.) Coat feels good to the touch (not greasy) and sight (scurf reduced markedly). Hives have visibly and fairly suddenly reduced, especially (but not only) in the past 24 hours. Eating is still not a 'given' but for the first time in over 3 months he has eaten roo mince. Needed some encouragement at first but between that which I included in his bowl along with BARF Rabbit and that which I used as treats for tricks this evening (my way of getting my food to him), he happily ate about 0.5kg. That was his limit - he didn't want more after that. But that was after eating 2 portions of BARF Rabbit and a bit earlier on, 2 x chicken wings. And for breakfast, 2 portions of BARF rabbit. Not to mention his Roo Jerky treats which he receives here and there for various things (including as a reward for "take your tablet" LOL).

We're not 'there' yet. But I'll keep you informed.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Erny

[sas]

Hoping the improvements continue!

[Erny]

Thanks Sas. I'm not confident about it all yet. And probably won't be until I can get him back to hoovering his food like he used to. Or at the very least, to eat it eagerly without me needing to be around to encourage him, or where a buzzing fly won't be such a distraction as to have him walk away and forget about his meal. I still had to encourage him to eat his breakfast and only just managed to get him to eat 2 x portions of BARF Rabbit and a small amount of roo mince. Takes me about half an hour or so to feed him (by the time I employ my various tactics) .

Edited January 19, 2010 by Erny

[Rysup]

Danois have you tried a change of diet?

My Keeshond boy's black bits turned red when he was on Eagle Pack (the fish one). I have since swapped to Artemis and am slowly seeing an improvement. He needs to blow his coat, but instead rolls it, so it will be a slow change. But at least I can see it happening.

[centitout]

Get the vet tests done and once you know where you stand then tackle his system from the naturopath side. As you may well know the allergies will not be fixed via cortizone or antihistamines - they are useful to eleviate symptoms but really only mask the problem.

PM me if you want this natropaths details - in Vic but can do hair analysis.

Allergies can not be cured with herbal/homeopathy or any other 'complimentary' treatment, these treatments however can be of a great asset to manage symptoms as can western non-steroid treatments as well as steroids if it does come to that.

Allergies are genetic and can not be cured, they can only be managed.

Hair Analysis via hands over the hair and getting energy readings? *shakes head* Perhaps that $ is better spent at the Dermatologist...

Allergic skin disease is a serious condition and needs to be addressed in an appropriate manner.....with a qualified Dermatologist before the owner starts to use Cortisone.

Hi SAS,

sorry,not sure i agree with you that all allergies are strictly genetic-i have 8 itchy dogs here at the moment and we are scratching(literally) our heads trying to work out the cause.Happened same time last year,th ekids chi was also affected and did not resolve with washes etc,only cortisone.

Only thing i am seeing similarities is that they have all been laying under a big shady Thuja tree( type of conifer) and the itching is confined to contact area ie brisket and esp the elbows.If it was genetic then why is the kids chi affected as well?All of us have developed severe hayfever as well(2 of us had it mild before).

Only happenes at this time of year,and 2 of the affected dogs now(rest are the pups born here) never had a problem at the old house,nor did Bono,he was affected this year too(before he died).Also ,we are surrounded by a big wheat field that has just been harvested and the owner uses a mix of the deadchooks,chook poo ,strw etc from his chicken farm on the field-same time last year,so may be connected to that ????

An update on my itchy dogs.

Cause found to be SARCOPTIC MANGE from the chook stuff.Vets used revolution and a short course of cortisone,within a couple of days the scratching is negligible(wernt started on cortisone for a few days after revolution as i was on holidays).

So 2 consecutive treatments should be all good.

[persephone]

SARCOPTIC MANGE from the chook stuff

I would be surprised if the sarcoptes mites had been found in a chook waste compost .....sarcoptes mites are very host-specific.. and only live on mammals!

They live their entire lives on the host animal.. but if dislodged, can survive up to a couple of weeks in a suitable environment. ( needs to be cool!)

Most cases are from dog-dog transmission, but dogs can, occasionally be infected from the environment in which an infected dog has recently 'lost' a few mites .

They may also be infected from foxes and /or possums- fox sarcoptes (AFAIK) are the same as the dog ones.

Our dogs are all bathed immediately after any contact with mangy foxes....saves a bad infestation later on

[zayda_asher]

Yeah, I would suspect foxes... Sarcopties makes much more sense in your case and would explain why the people are itchy too... Seeing there are itchy people, they need to go to the Dr and be treated too

[persephone]

Itchy people? paint yourself thoroughly with ascabiol,as directed..all over! everyone!

We had to do this when April pig shared her brand of sarcoptes with us

the dogs didn't get any- but we did .. drove me mental with the itch .

had to vacuum madly- spray everything with a miticide spray ( I think it was bosisto's dust mite spray) we had loose covers on all furniture- washed and left in a garbage bag in the sun to kill the critters...clothes/linen were left out in the sun for about 4 days...

took about 4 weeks for all the little buggers to die off completely .

Edited January 21, 2010 by persephone

[centitout]

ascabiol is the worst stuff,it is only me and my daughter who are affected with the itch,we have the most to do with the dogs.

We do see a few foxes here,and often here them yipping at night,must be pretty hard on them with all those chooks locked up I normally start walking them through the big paddock as soon as the wheat is baled,this was the same time as the dead chooks/poo was spread,foxes would have thought all their xmas's had come at once.

[persephone]

ascabiol is the worst stuff

Really? I thought it was great! Not much smell- didn't sting or anything- dried really quickly..and worked!! on April and us

I bet the foxes do love the smell of all that chook litter, etc!!

[centitout]

same stuff they use for human scabies?? one of the kids brought that nasty home from school years ago,had to paint us in it from head to foot,doesnt smell that bad ,just a yucky feeling when dried.

[Danois]

Erny

I am glad there has been progress for your boy!

I know what you mean re sneaking food in - I have been teaching a pivot heel and use that to get tucker time into him on the sly (as well as it being a useful trick for hiding tablets!)

We had a great response here and then 3-4 days later got lumps again - the thing in common from the 2 times was a trip to the same park - whether it is the grass or the fleas from the park I don't know.

He improved reasonably quickly from that and has been ok other than having very flaky skin randomly the other day.

Danois have you tried a change of diet?

My Keeshond boy's black bits turned red when he was on Eagle Pack (the fish one). I have since swapped to Artemis and am slowly seeing an improvement. He needs to blow his coat, but instead rolls it, so it will be a slow change. But at least I can see it happening.

There have been several changes of food - Royal Canin, Eagle Pack and Proplan without change. Now he is pretty much done growing and once I get a chest freezer I am going to move to a more raw diet I think.

[Erny]

Thanks Danois. And ditto to you ..... sounds like your boy is on the up and up?

Mandela has improved yet more since my last post. He's put on weight - he's now decided that chicken is the "in food" and consequently has eaten a few good portions of it. I only hope that lasts. Although his hives are lesser in numbers, I've noticed that whilst they were 'almost' (loose term for those who don't have dogs who sport hundreds of hives at a time) gone, there's another flush. I believe this is to be expected because part of the 'hair analysis' meds continues to be about detoxifying. I'm keeping a close eye on him. Other than the hives, his coat seems better though and he just looks so much better (solid) for the extra weight. His meds from the hair analysis continue until Sunday week, so I presume I will know better by then as to how things are going.

If you don't have an extra freezer already, you'll be glad to get one. I got one with drawers (easier to find food - although I don't think you can fit as much in). It was great at the beginning, because I was able to reclaim my own freezer compartment of my fridge. But with everything of late (ie being fussy with food) I have found the food in the freezer overflowing to my own freezer. . But it is really handy and I doubt you'd regret it.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Erny