How Many Breeds?

[casowner]

Mine will not go over our property boundary, he will go between our 2 properties if we are next door, he generally stays on our 5 acre house block.

Our gates are padlocked at all times and there are signs on the gate, if people that he does not know come over he is taken inside or put in a safe area. He is naturally distrustful of strangers and no he would not be trusted with someone that he does not know, we have made very clear house rules when it comes to him. I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that I wholeheartedly believe he would defend what he percieves as a threat with his life. After saying that he is incredibly gentle and tolerant of those that he is bonded too, but even us adults announce ourselves when we go outside in the dark. He is very well known in our area as "the big teddy bear", but all of our neighbours have been educated on his breed. He can be apparently snoozing one second and in an instant running the fenceline chasing a motorbike, his agility is amazing. It is a big responsibility owning and understanding his breed, one that we as a family are totally committed to. He has been heavily socialised being used as a demo dog for my old students and in public he is very good, it is in his home that he is in a working frame of mind at all times.

I am truly amazed by his breed and how much my family has gained from him joining us. It is not without it's challenges though as he only allows my mother to stay at the house when we are gone and even then she has to watch him like a hawk as he tolerates our absence for just one day and then he will go searching the other property for us.

As we live on a rural block we do not have people popping in or kids jumping over the fence to get their ball, he is happy to allow neighbours to talk to us over the fence (stock fencing), he is also happy for them to come in if he knows them or if he has been introduced. If someone jumped the fence or came towards him in a dominant or threatening manner it would be different. Last night our neighbour had about 15 screaming kids in their pool which he can see very clearly, he had no interest as they were not on his property. Their 2 young cocker spaniels on the other hand have no clue about boundaries and regularly come over and chase our animals, luckily I have heard his barking and removed him but I dread finding some little blue roan and red heaps in my yard. The owners have been warned constantly but they clearly don't understand that I am not being over sensitive

Edited January 8, 2010 by casowner

[poodlefan]

I'll confess to being fascinated by livestock guardians.

Casowner I think it is great that there are still homes like yours for these amazing dogs. To see Maremmas and their crosses sold out of petshops to people who have NFI what they are buying into absolutely appalls me.

There was a litter of GR/Maremma crosses sold in this area a few years back. Even as pups they were causing their owners big headaches.

Edited January 8, 2010 by poodlefan

[carlibud]

I'll confess to being fascinated by livestock guardians.

Casowner I think it is great that there are still homes like yours for these amazing dogs. To see Maremmas and their crosses sold out of petshops to people who have NFI what they are buying into absolutely appalls me.

There was a litter of GR/Maremma crosses sold in this area a few years back. Even as pups they were causing their owners big headaches.

I agree Pf friends had a Maremma and he was gorgeous and it still amazes me how they walk them the boundry and they know thats theirs to protect, just fantastic. They do look such teddy bears dont they.

Yes it does anger me also that people would cross these dogs with other breeds but then it does with a lot of the X's anyway, but these breeds have such a dominate purpose dont they

[Guest bigdogg]

Mine will not go over our property boundary, he will go between our 2 properties if we are next door, he generally stays on our 5 acre house block.

Our gates are padlocked at all times and there are signs on the gate, if people that he does not know come over he is taken inside or put in a safe area. He is naturally distrustful of strangers and no he would not be trusted with someone that he does not know, we have made very clear house rules when it comes to him. I have absolutely no hesitation in saying that I wholeheartedly believe he would defend what he percieves as a threat with his life. After saying that he is incredibly gentle and tolerant of those that he is bonded too, but even us adults announce ourselves when we go outside in the dark. He is very well known in our area as "the big teddy bear", but all of our neighbours have been educated on his breed. He can be apparently snoozing one second and in an instant running the fenceline chasing a motorbike, his agility is amazing. It is a big responsibility owning and understanding his breed, one that we as a family are totally committed to. He has been heavily socialised being used as a demo dog for my old students and in public he is very good, it is in his home that he is in a working frame of mind at all times.

I am truly amazed by his breed and how much my family has gained from him joining us. It is not without it's challenges though as he only allows my mother to stay at the house when we are gone and even then she has to watch him like a hawk as he tolerates our absence for just one day and then he will go searching the other property for us.

As we live on a rural block we do not have people popping in or kids jumping over the fence to get their ball, he is happy to allow neighbours to talk to us over the fence (stock fencing), he is also happy for them to come in if he knows them or if he has been introduced. If someone jumped the fence or came towards him in a dominant or threatening manner it would be different. Last night our neighbour had about 15 screaming kids in their pool which he can see very clearly, he had no interest as they were not on his property. Their 2 young cocker spaniels on the other hand have no clue about boundaries and regularly come over and chase our animals, luckily I have heard his barking and removed him but I dread finding some little blue roan and red heaps in my yard. The owners have been warned constantly but they clearly don't understand that I am not being over sensitive

Holy shit - he is massive!!!

Stunning to say the least..

Good to see such dedication for your breed. I reckon ill stick to my pigdogs though.. lol

[SpikesPuppy]

Aren't most pigdogs purpose-bred mongrels? Are there any pure breeds used in Australia for pigging on a regular basis??

[Guest bigdogg]

Aren't most pigdogs purpose-bred mongrels? Are there any pure breeds used in Australia for pigging on a regular basis??

plenty of established lines - but also some mongrels.

bullarab would be the most recognised as a line www.bullarab.com.au as well as the bullygrey both have records back 30 years.

There are also a lot of family line dogs.. usually kept in tight circles

This site has only a couple of lines on their as well as some pures. http://www.huntingpigdog.com/

There are a few pure dogs that can bail pigs - catahoula, and most of your working dogs.

A pig dog is an all in one package usually.. Not many people feed a dog that can find a dog that can run fast a dog that can catch and dog thats a great companion.. Both of mine are all in one.

[SpikesPuppy]

Aren't most pigdogs purpose-bred mongrels? Are there any pure breeds used in Australia for pigging on a regular basis??

plenty of established lines - but also some mongrels.

bullarab would be the most recognised as a line www.bullarab.com.au as well as the bullygrey both have records back 30 years.

There are also a lot of family line dogs.. usually kept in tight circles

This site has only a couple of lines on their as well as some pures. http://www.huntingpigdog.com/

There are a few pure dogs that can bail pigs - catahoula, and most of your working dogs.

A pig dog is an all in one package usually.. Not many people feed a dog that can find a dog that can run fast a dog that can catch and dog thats a great companion.. Both of mine are all in one.

Thanks for the info & links!

I would think that some pigdogs would be great examples of cross breeding for a purpose.

Lurchers would be another, no??

I am all for pures and pedigrees but I think it is a big call to say that a pedigree is automatically 'superior' to a cross breed if they are bred for the same purpose, if that makes any sense??

ETA hope I didn't offend anyone using the term 'mongrel' I actually prefer it to crossbreed (now associate it with DDs grr)

Edited January 8, 2010 by SpikesPuppy

[Guest bigdogg]

Totally agree!!

The advantage that pures have over mongrels is they are health tested. (only from ethical/responsible/registered breeders)

It would be less likely for a working mongrel to have genetic faults than just a normal mongrel or DD as breeding selection is based from good workers. If there is a disorder one would think it would surface quicker then a dog that lies around on the couch? There is also an element of survival of the fittest as well. Those that dont work should not be bred from.

Mongrel working dogs are usually cheaper to buy.

Lurchers are another great example of mongrel over pure.

[centitout]

There have been many that have tried to cross bloodhounds over other large breeds to produce "better nosed" piggers,but from most i have spoken too it hasnt really been as effective as they had hoped,the purebred still comes out on top for trailing ability,whether hunting or man trailing.

[Guest bigdogg]

i dont doubt that for a minute.. after the bloodhound trails the pig then what is he going to do?

their not the fastest dogs around and once their on that scent a pig can run past their nose just about and they will stick on the scent.

They use them for deer and i know a lot of hunters are disappointed that foxhounds and other crosses are banned to use hunting deer..

My point is, there are pures that do that one job awesome.. But are not quite good enough for the other tasks at hand. hence why people cross.

[Akayla]

Unless the breed is designed to be an all rounder

[Guest bigdogg]

For sure..

When i talk working dogs im talking hunting dogs and stock dogs. So my definition is in fact wrong. I don't know what i should call them really. Country working dogs?

There are other disciplines out there that i have no knowledge in. Guarding is definitely one, as well as guide dogs, sniffer dogs and the likes. They are all still working dogs - but i guess the pures perform these roles perfectly.

Now there are going to be members starting to toot their trumpet saying my BC or Kelpie can do this and do that and won this and beat that.. If you have full time working lines than there is a difference. Some can do it.. I dont doubt that for a second.. However even with in breeds some certain lines are better than others. A good working dog is decided by its owner. So what i think is a good dog you may think is hopeless or vice versa.. (*waiting for the flames)

[Akayla]

I was just playing.

No for sure there are breeders out there who breed what they require to do the work. I mean thats how alot of breeds got started.

Ive not tried hunting with a GSD but the idea of a GSD is that it can do everything well. Not the best but well. They are not bred just as guardians but as "all rounders". Though they are highly prized still as that sort of worker mostly I believe because of the dogs drive to please, protectiveness and the general appearance.

They also can heard ect and I have no doubt with their scenting capabilities could be used in some form of hunting. But Ive never tried it or put in the long hours to find the rights dogs, lines ect to train.

[moosmum]

I have a personal protection breed,both pure and X breeds.

I would have loved to stick with the pure breed,but was told 15 years ago by my breed club that what I wanted in a dog could not no longer be had here in Australia. :D

Very upsetting as these qualities had been very much a part of the breed description.My crosses used a breed introduced in earlier lines of the original breed,and seem to work very well.

There are some wonderful breeders here working hard to bring back these qualities and I am behind them 100%. (And a HUGE thankyou to them! ) but wish all breeders could join these efforts or I'm afraid this breed will be lost to us here.

I am speaking only of my chosen breed here,different circumstances affect different breeds.

There was talk earlier in this thread comparing dogs to certain makes of cars...All very well,but if I want a Lotus,a Datsun with a Lotus body kit is NOT the same!

Any working abilities will only remain reliably strong in a breed while their worth is valued by breeders and sought out in breeding stock before suitability for the show ring comes into it.

If a breeds description includes certain abilities and personality traits,to me these should be a 1st focus if the breed is not to become irrelevant.

Any responsible dog owner should be doing their research for suitability before they get a dog any way,so how is changing the breed to suit todays market doing anyone favours?

As people said earlier,if the temperament and requirements for a certain breed don't suit,there are plenty of other breeds that may suit better.

In my case anyway,a cross has worked well in an area out side of hunting or working live stock.Its just a shame it was needed to get what I wanted.

Edited January 9, 2010 by moosmum

[Czara]

I'm wondering I suppose because other breeds dont seem to cop as much cr@p as the GSD's about WL vs SL's ...

Well it has got me thinking to how many dogs still do the work that they were originally bred for??

I don't know what "WL's" and "SL's" are, but my dog (GSD) does exactly what she is bred for: great versatile all-round intelligent, loyal, energetic, steadfast, courageous companion, friend, guardian, obedience, family dog. Don't know what all the flack is about, but there is nothing like a good ol' fashioned German Shepherd Dog!!!

[carlibud]

I'm wondering I suppose because other breeds dont seem to cop as much cr@p as the GSD's about WL vs SL's ...

Well it has got me thinking to how many dogs still do the work that they were originally bred for??

I don't know what "WL's" and "SL's" are, but my dog (GSD) does exactly what she is bred for: great versatile all-round intelligent, loyal, energetic, steadfast, courageous companion, friend, guardian, obedience, family dog. Don't know what all the flack is about, but there is nothing like a good ol' fashioned German Shepherd Dog!!!

Hi Czara.

Well WL is working Lines and SL is show Lines. Alot of breeders of GSD's tend to get very one eyed (for the want of a better saying LOL) on Working lines being stronger ( again for the want of the right word before anyone starts ranting at me LOL) than show lines. I agree there is nothing like the good ole German Shepherd and it shouldnt be the "We are better than YOU" type of argument but it always seems to turn that way, that is why I started this thread and it has been very very interesting with some excellent posts.

[Diablo]

I'm wondering I suppose because other breeds dont seem to cop as much cr@p as the GSD's about WL vs SL's ...

Well it has got me thinking to how many dogs still do the work that they were originally bred for??

I don't know what "WL's" and "SL's" are, but my dog (GSD) does exactly what she is bred for: great versatile all-round intelligent, loyal, energetic, steadfast, courageous companion, friend, guardian, obedience, family dog. Don't know what all the flack is about, but there is nothing like a good ol' fashioned German Shepherd Dog!!!

Hi Czara.

Well WL is working Lines and SL is show Lines. Alot of breeders of GSD's tend to get very one eyed (for the want of a better saying LOL) on Working lines being stronger ( again for the want of the right word before anyone starts ranting at me LOL) than show lines. I agree there is nothing like the good ole German Shepherd and it shouldnt be the "We are better than YOU" type of argument but it always seems to turn that way, that is why I started this thread and it has been very very interesting with some excellent posts.

The biggest issue I think with the GSD Carlibud, is that the breeders become "one eyed" believing what they breed is correct and won't budge on it???. Some showline breeders will stand up and fight with vigour that their breedings can work although they haven't produced a worker in 4 generations. Some working line breeders will do the same with their breeding's conformation but have never shown a dog in their lives, too much talk and assumptions with not enough action from either camp really???. Personally I think that both camps could offer each other some valuable knowledge to improve the standards of each line which would be far more productive than arguing about what is best.