Pounds And Restricted Breeds/crosses

[RottnBullies]

Is there any way It can be contested? ie: person brings stray In, staff look at the dog

and deem It a RB and will not allow It to be re homed or released (Unless owner comes forward). Can the person who brought the stray In request that the dog have a N.O.I issued at their own expense?

If pound then allows the dog to go through the N.O.I, If It's then deemed a RB x

does the pound then still have the right not to release the dog and have It PTS?

Or does this all vary within different councils?

This Is In the Shoalhaven City Council that I'm asking about

Thanks

ETA: I've had a look at their council website, and there Isn't much In regards to RB's

Edited December 30, 2009 by RottnBullies

[wherezaball]

The laws across NSW are the same, though the practises can be different for each Council.

NOI's can only be issued to the identified (chipped) owner of a dog. So if the dog is not/can't be purchased by the person who bought the dog in then no it can't be contested. You could go to the boss of the Council and jump up and down saying you want to adopt the dog and are happy for Council to issue you with an NOI and you get the BA etc done. Not sure it will do any good.

Below are a few scenarios to show how it works.

If a dog comes in as a stray and is chipped as a purebred Pitbull or APBT then it is a restricted dog and hence a dead dog if not claimed. If claimed, it can still be a dead dog in many cases, though not all.

If a dog comes in and is chipped as a Pitbull X anything and there has been no breed assessment perfomed on the dog by an authorised Breed Assessor then it is not a RD technically as the law is written.Unless chipped as a purebreed a dog is NOT a RD until an NOI has been issued and a breed assessment and temperant assessment (if required) is performed by a authorised breed and temperament assessor. They can still be rehomed as long as the new owner is told that Council will issue an NOI and the dog will need to be breed assessed because Council is of the belief the dog may be a PB cross and the owner what is involved in owning a RD if the dog is deemed a RD after assessment. If this dog was claimed by an owner then it can be released and the owner then issued with an NOI for a BA. Though many of these dogs would not get rehomed if they appear to have some pitbull in them. If a Pitbull X anything came in and it had a breed assessment performed on it and a temperament assessment and it was declared a RD under the legislation then it is a dead dog.

If a dog came into the pound chipped as say an AMSTAFF X and the Council believed it was a APBT or cross then they still have to release the dog if claimed by an owner and issue an NOI for a breed assessment etc.

If a dog came in with NO chip and the Council believed it to be cross PB or APBT then technically at that time it is not a RD and "could" be offered for rehoming if not claimed. If claimed, the owner should be able to claim the dog as per usual and would be issued with an NOI for a BA. If not claimed, then technically it could be offered for rehoming and the new owner advised of NOI being issued and requirement for BA etc etc.

Council Officers are not authorised breed assessors.

Don't forget the the shortcut for all of these situations is if the dog is not claimed the Council can euth the dog on the basis of behaviour or medical reasons and it never be offered for rehoming.

[Nannas]

Restricted Breed Xs found roaming or handed in at Pounds etc are not supposed to be released to anyone,,,,,even the owner, unless it has passed the TT previously.

The pound might be waiting for the owners to show up with papers etc to prove it has passed the TT BUT that can only be done if the dog is microchipped.

((IF the dog is rbx the owners may not go looking for it, in fear of the fines they could face))

I have noticed in DOL mentions of some pounds releasing Restricted xs (pups) after TT etc, but they aren't really supposed to do it.

I guess some pounds even feel sorry for these dogs and are trying to give the quiet calm ones a break, rather than PTS.

I doubt they would let it leave the pound before BA and TT.

The first step of the NOI is BA. If they assess the dog as a restricted x then they will be able to advise you right then and there of their intentions.

If they decide they might rehome it if it passes TT all well and good, BUT some TT tests are pretty hard and I doubt many dogs would pass.

Does the dog look like a restricted x?? Chances are the BA won't have much more of an idea than the pound or yourself, really.

Ask the pound if they wil have the dog breed assesssed. Although if you believe the dog is of rbx then ask will they let you have it TT.

They really are NOT supposed to rehome rbx, so no there is really no fighting it if they say NO.

Hope all goes well for the poor thing.

[Nannas]

The laws across NSW are the same, though the practises can be different for each Council.

If a dog comes in and is chipped as a Pitbull X anything and there has been no breed assessment perfomed on the dog by an authorised Breed Assessor then it is not a RD technically as the law is written.Unless chipped as a purebreed a dog is NOT a RD until an NOI has been issued and a breed assessment and temperant assessment (if required) is performed by a authorised breed and temperament assessor. They can still be rehomed as long as the new owner is told that Council will issue an NOI and the dog will need to be breed assessed because Council is of the belief the dog may be a PB cross and the owner what is involved in owning a RD if the dog is deemed a RD after assessment. If this dog was claimed by an owner then it can be released and the owner then issued with an NOI for a BA. Though many of these dogs would not get rehomed if they appear to have some pitbull in them. If a Pitbull X anything came in and it had a breed assessment performed on it and a temperament assessment and it was declared a RD under the legislation then it is a dead dog.

Any dog microchipped legally in NSW as APBT or Cross would have already been issued with an NOI.

Any NOI dog who DIDN'T go through with the BA and TT is automatically listed (by law) as Resticted.

You do NOT have to go through BA and TT before they can restrict your dog. You do not even HAVE to do BA and TT.

Once the NOI is sent out/delivered to the address on the microchip and registration, the owner has 28days to comply with BA and TT and if the owner fails to present those the dog is automatically restricted.

If the owner did NOT recieve their NOI the Council take no responsibility as it is up to the owner to keep microchip/registration details uptodate.

Dogs that are microchipped as RBx's and have NOT passed the TT test are all restricted and the Council has full right to PTS.

The owners would have already been issued NOI's (whether they received it or not) and there is no 'rules' that the Council has to issue a second NOI.

Unmicrochipped/unregistered assumed RBx are NOT supposed to leave a pound/shelter UNTIL some type of BA and TT has been done.

They cannot release a 'supposed' restricted dog before having a Temp Test done incase it does attack someone or something.

IF the pound think the dog is safe, then they can rehome and serve a NOI, but they usually warn people of the costs etc involved beforehand (which usually puts people off)

[wherezaball]

[

Any dog microchipped legally in NSW as APBT or Cross would have already been issued with an NOI.]

That is if Council has done their job. There are plenty out there chipped as PB or ABPT crosses that have not had an NOI issued yet.

[Any NOI dog who DIDN'T go through with the BA and TT is automatically listed (by law) as Resticted.

You do NOT have to go through BA and TT before they can restrict your dog. You do not even HAVE to do BA and TT.]

Yes, this is correct but that was not the question asked.

[Once the NOI is sent out/delivered to the address on the microchip and registration, the owner has 28days to comply with BA and TT and if the owner fails to present those the dog is automatically restricted.

If the owner did NOT recieve their NOI the Council take no responsibility as it is up to the owner to keep microchip/registration details uptodate.

Dogs that are microchipped as RBx's and have NOT passed the TT test are all restricted and the Council has full right to PTS.

The owners would have already been issued NOI's (whether they received it or not) and there is no 'rules' that the Council has to issue a second NOI.]

Again, this is correct but again it was not the question asked. There is a facility in Companion Animal Register to issue a second NOI giving a further 28 days to have the dogBA/TA'd. Also, I have known Council's who issue and hand deliver a second NOI to ensure the owner is given every opportunity to have the dog assessed.

In this case it seems the dog is not chipped therefore an NOI would not be issued at all unless claimed by an owner. The dog would not pass the Council process for rehoming whatever that may be.

Unmicrochipped/unregistered assumed RBx are NOT supposed to leave a pound/shelter UNTIL some type of BA and TT has been done.

They cannot release a 'supposed' restricted dog before having a Temp Test done incase it does attack someone or something.

IF the pound think the dog is safe, then they can rehome and serve a NOI, but they usually warn people of the costs etc involved beforehand (which usually puts people off)

As I said they can always get around it by euthing the dog for behavioural or medical reasons (i.e. failing the pounds temp test or vet check) or they can rehome the dog and issue an NOI with the new owners understanding the process and what is involved before adoption.

[Nannas]

I wasn't really replying to the 'question asked'

I was replying (quoting) your reply where you stated

If a dog comes in and is chipped as a Pitbull X anything and there has been no breed assessment perfomed on the dog by an authorised Breed Assessor then it is not a RD technically as the law is written.

Unless chipped as a purebreed a dog is NOT a RD until an NOI has been issued and a breed assessment and temperant assessment (if required) is performed by a authorised breed and temperament assessor.

Which is really incorrect.

Any RBx that is microchipped as such would have already been issued with an NOI, and if the owners did not do BA and TT (or if the dog failed) it is Restrcited. (technically as the law is written)

No Council is under ANY requirements (now) to reissue a second (or third) NOI (for microchipped rbx). When BSL came in if someone could prove they didn't receive their NOI, they could apply for another one to be issued and an extenstion but the Council is under no obligation to issue one now.

That is if Council has done their job. There are plenty out there chipped as PB or ABPT crosses that have not had an NOI issued yet.

The problem isn't the Councils. As far as I know they did do their job. The problems arise from OWNERS moving etc and not updating their dogs microchip/registration details. The Councils only had to provide NOI's to the addresses listed and are under NO obligation NOW to reissue for those that moved and didn't update their details.

Honestly, claiming "I didn't know" now is a bit too late.

Those people who have microchipped RB/crosses know about BSL and if they failed to step up and contact Council to update or ask for NOI's, then it might be too late.

Part of being a "responsible' dog owner is keeping your details updated and following the laws concerning your dog.

No point trying to blame the Councils for irresponsible people.

If anything I said wasn't the question asked, then I guess you didn't reply to the question either, as I was replying to comments you had made, which were unclear and misleading.

I guess the part "a dog is NOT a RD until an NOI has been issued and a breed assessment and temperant assessment (if required) is performed by a authorised breed and temperament assessor. " is the bit that I am manily talking about.

It implies that until a NOI is issued AND BA and TT are done, the dog is not classed as restricted, which is just wrong.

Fact is ONCE the NOI is issued your dog IS classed as restricted UNTIL you prove otherwise.

If you do not follow through with BA and TT OR pass BA and TT then the dog remains restricted.

[Nannas]

Anyway,

RnB,

Do you think the dog would pass BA and TT??

If it doesn't would you be prepared/organised to take it on anyway???

It is a pretty big job and can make life hard sometimes.

We used to go camping all the time before BSL but no more camping or holidays now. Cannot even take them to dog-friendly caravan parks or anything.

Not even allowed to move or even visit overnight (in other Council areas) unless you get prior permission from Councils etc.

I cannot even go visit my daughter in Wagga and take the dog with me. (made it hard when my granddaughter was born)

Cannot even let the dog out in your own backyard.

It's not just about cages, muzzles and warning collars, it is actually alot bigger than that.

Half the stuff isn't even included on the NOI. It is up to the owner to check stuff out on their own beforehand.

Pretty sad really..it can really deter people from wanting to home one knowing all the 'crap' that's involved.

[RottnBullies]

Wow, talk about confusing!

I thought my question was pretty straight forward

I do know all about owners rights In regards to N.O.I, BA and TT

What I wanted to know Is the rights of a stray dog who lands itself in the pound

If a dog came in with NO chip and the Council believed it to be cross PB or APBT then technically at that time it is not a RD and "could" be offered for rehoming if not claimed. If claimed, the owner should be able to claim the dog as per usual and would be issued with an NOI for a BA. If not claimed, then technically it could be offered for rehoming and the new owner advised of NOI being issued and requirement for BA etc etc.

So according to this Wherezaball technically this dog should not have been labeled as a Pit Bull by staff as they are not breed assessors ??

You did mention that Council Officers are not authorized breed assessors!

So technically It should be allowed to be released, but then Issued with an N.O.I as staff "believe It to be of RB'?

I do believe If this Is indeed the case, staff hell bent on not releasing

will come up with things like the dog Is aggressive, It didn't pass this or It didn't pass that just so not to release the dog This is their way of getting away with not following the due process Is It not ?

This Is a direct quote of what was said by a staff member after one look at the dog when the dog was brought In:

"that's a pit bull, they're killing machines and illegal in NSW"

Talk about Ignorance

Anyway,

RnB,

Do you think the dog would pass BA and TT??

If it doesn't would you be prepared/organised to take it on anyway???

It is a pretty big job and can make life hard sometimes.

I know how hard and how big a job It Is,

I was trying to help the person who found the dog. If I was still In Rescue,

and had the room, yes I would have taken her on

As for passing the BA & TT I'm not qualified nor do I believe in ID a dog

based on looks alone, so I make It a habit not to answer those

questions.....we all know how many times too many dogs get ID wrong

and end up paying with their lives

And I know all too well on how some of these dogs are TT too! In where

many with perfect stable dogs claim that their own dog would not pass

On a final note I've received notice that she was re claimed by owner,

so a very happy ending for Christmas Dog as she was appropriatley

named by person who found her!

[Nannas]

Cool,

That's really good to know.

When I mentioned do you think it would pass BA and TT I wasn't hoping you would go making guess ID's of the dog. Just if it didn't pass BA, if it seemed like it would pass TT. (hard I know, but some dogs you can look at and think NO WAY straight off the bat)

I guess I have just seen soo many people begin the trip to save a dog that was supposed to be rbx,, then run out of money or not be able to cope (with the rules),,and poor dog ends up back where it began.

Alot of wonderful dedicated people out there but sadly just not enough money on call to be able to keep up.

Not saying you would do that, just it does happen. Usually poor dog cops it worse second time round.

Looks like Christmas Dog will be having a Happy New Year after all!!!!

[RottnBullies]

Cool,

That's really good to know.

I guess I have just seen soo many people begin the trip to save a dog that was supposed to be rbx,, then run out of money or not be able to cope (with the rules),,and poor dog ends up back where it began.

Alot of wonderful dedicated people out there but sadly just not enough money on call to be able to keep up.

Not saying you would do that, just it does happen. Usually poor dog cops it worse second time round.

It's not always about money! People just need to know their rights and seek Information In the right places for help.

Without going In to too much detail, a very recent case of a dog who was seized In Vic, was later released with no restrictions, with no exchange of money

What I'm angry about Is what right or qualifications do council staff members have

In being Judge Jury and Executioner In these said cases where dogs without chips

and are not claimed by owners are automatically labeled as RB's and PTS

I realize there are also some very nice and helpful council

workers and staff......so please understand I'm not tarnishing them all as the same

Looks like Christmas Dog will be having a Happy New Year after all!!!!

Indeed she will ;)

Edited for some clarifying

Edited December 31, 2009 by RottnBullies