Call Out To Brisbane Dolers......

[Loving my Oldies]

update : waiting for the dpi to call me back....

Did you actually talk to a real live person, or did you have to leave a message?

[Ms Genki]

A lot of the sentiments on this thread are shared by many DOLers. What about contacting groups like Lawyers for Animals and Brisbane Lawyers (BLEATS) to see how a group can mobilise and work towards implementing actual legislation (as opposed to non-enforceable voluntary codes)?

Maybe I'm idealistic but it would be a big coup if this practice can be banned, nationwide, within the next ten years. Animal law might be nascent in Australia, but it is gaining momentum, nonetheless. The pace at which it progresses is dependent on action, by people.

I am physically sick when seeing any animal, let alone young pups and kittens, every time I go to the mall, every year. The only exception for me are pet shops that genuinely support rescue groups, with knowledgeable sales assistants who actively educate prospective buyers on the many responsibilities of pet ownership and discourage impulse buys.

Edited December 31, 2009 by Ms Genki

[16Paws]

I've seen underage puppies at both Chermside and Toombul PP on numerous occasions but each time there was a sign in the window stating the pups were too young to be sold - very little consolation really but perhaps with pressure the shop could ensure they do not go to new homes for a few more weeks...

[Jed]

I am sure that Qld legislation says that pups cannot be sold until 8 weeks. And that applies to all resellers.

ARSPCA as usual, couldn't be arsed to do it. Usual story. Too busy, not enough inspectors.

Pet shops sell pups younger than 8 weeks because the public seems to like them cute and small. Also, there is a "window" for them to grow. If they go into the pet shop at 8 weeks, and don't sell for 3 weeks, they are not so attractive (rule of thumb, depends on breed a bit). If they go into the shop at 6 weeks, they will probably sell one at 6 weeks, and the remainder at 7 or 8, before they are getting gangly and unattractive.

Additionally, there are bogans who rock up to the pet shops with 5 or 6 week old pups "gotta get rid of these NOW" so the shops take them.

And Pets Purgatory likes them about 6 weeks, see 3rd paragraph. I think is is franchise policy.

In those 2 weeks between 6 and 8 weeks, the difference in pups' boldness, social ability and skill levels is just amazing. We are speaking of 1/4 of their lives. 2 weeks may not seem lilke much, but when you realise it is 1/4 of their lives, you begin to perceive how important it is. In that last 2 weeks, they also learn bite inhibition, which is really important. An astounding number of people come here and ask what they can do to stop their puppy biting ... and 90% of the time, the pup came to live with them at 6 or 7 weeks, so the siblings or mother didn't teach it bite inhibition - so it is left to the humans, which is much harder all round. There are fewer problems with bite inhibition with pups from 8 weeks and older.

Once, years ago, it was acceptable to sell pups at 6 weeks, but further research has shown the pups are better for a whole lot of reasons to go at + 8 weeks.

I sell mine at 9, 10, 11 weeks, depending on how they develop and grow, which differs from breed to breed, and litter to litter. And feedback from my buyers tells me that this is the most satisfactory age. Pups are easier to housetrain, integrate into their new home more readily, and cry less at night. Being very well socialised before they leave, and being raised in the house helps, but they all do thrive and prosper. More so than pups I sent off at 6 weeks in earlier times.

Just continue to phone the ARSPCA, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. To be fair, they probably know the pet shop will have a story, and they are wasting their time. However, it is the law, and you perhaps could write a letter to the manager, pointing that out. Public relations is important for retail outlets.

Thanks for caring.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Jed

[iffykharma]

I am sure that Qld legislation says that pups cannot be sold until 8 weeks. And that applies to all resellers.

Unfortunately, Qld legislation does not address the age at which animals can be sold. The only reference to the age of animals sold in Pet Shops is in the Queensland Code of Practice for Pet Shops. This is a voluntary CoP and so cannot be enforced. My hope is that there will be a review after a few years, which will undoubtedly find that it hasn't worked (as voluntary codes generally don't - at least not to change the behaviour of the ones who weren't doing the right thing anyway) and the code will become Mandatory.

The only legislative provisions likely to be able to be used in relation to pet shops are those dealing with Breach of Duty of Care under the Animal Care and Protection Act 2001.

Here is a copy of the Qld Code of Practice for Pet Shops.

In relation to the puppies at Chermside (and any others people get concerned about in pet shops), I would recommend you contact the Brisbane City Council first. Pet Shops must have a Council permit to operate and the permit has conditions attached. You may be able to get a local laws officer to go out and have a look. Keep in mind that, as far as I'm aware, the BCC doesn't have separate Animal Management Officers or Rangers as would be understood by people living in different local government areas. My understanding is they all enforce the broad range of local laws, but I'm happy to be corrected on this (in fact I'd love to be corrected on this as I think for a Council the size of Brisbane its crazy not to have separate animal management officers).

Hope this helps. :D

So, has anyone been able to go out and see these puppies - any news?

[Loving my Oldies]

update : waiting for the dpi to call me back....

Any news, please.

[Kissindra]

went in yesterday, one mini foxy pup and one chi x foxy(who looked rather tiny but then I'd imagine you'd expect that of a chi x), there was a window pen that was empty so not sure if pups had been removed or not.

[SeeGee]

Hi All,

First of all the DPI didnt call back - i did speak to a live person who assured me the appropriate person would contact me. I called back and was assured someone would contact me......im sure you can imagine the run around i got, i can only assume its what they do to fob people off.

Went back to chermside cos i couldnt stop thinking about it. the dogs were gone. I asked the girl if the two tiny dogs id seen a few days earlier - she said no they hadnt been sold, but didnt know what had happened. i can only assume (fingers crossed) that the manager/owner had a sudden case of the guilts and have taken them home for a few week? I dont know.....but as others have said, they wernt there.

thank you to all who supported me,offered information and showed interest. im still learning about all of this, but like all of you, it breaks my heart. I will step up next time, slightly more informed but just as determind!

Cheers,

Jacqui

[mita]

I think the advice given by some people in the thread....to contact the Centre Management....holds very true. They don't want adverse publicity re any store in their complex, especially an issue about dear, tiny, helpless puppies.

So it's also the Centre Management who need to be advised there's a Code of Practice for pet stores in Qld... which, for example, gives the minimum age for puppies as 8 weeks. And they need to know that consumers & pet fanciers will notice & speak out publicly about any breaches of that code.

[Mystiqview]

Yeah and who do you think supply Pets Purgatory with their puppies.... BYB puppy farmers!

There used to be two shall I say dark skinned Australians live across the road and up a bit (we had them removed by housing commission - different story). They had a bitch and a dog.. the bitch was always in whelp. They used to take them across the road to Coles at Appleby road and flog them off in a shopping basket. That or they sold them off for their drug money.

There are a few around here who constantly have/breed puppies.. See them when we walk our lot. Unfortunately Chermside and Stafford and parts of the surrounding suburbs are full of housing commission. I am sure there are some good housing commission people who genuinely need the assistance, but mlost of the ones around here are filth.