Separation Anxiety

[aspenleaf]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to pick your experienced brains on separation anxiety and your guesses as to how a rescue dog that you know absolutely nothing about's it's history may have come to have this condition. I realise this is a dumb question and it's 'anyone's guess' but to all of you in rescue who have had many dogs through your doors, have you had any known reasons or any theories as to how some of your dogs may have ended up with separation anxiety.

My situation for example, is that I have a four year old female Ridgeback x (possibly Lab - she certainly has the apetite of a Lab) who has probably had a litter for every season (wrong wording I know) who was surrendered to a pound for 'scratching at the back door'. Now I realise that 'scratching at the back door' can mean 'separation anxiety' but in your speculative minds, what are you thoughts as to how she could have ended up with separation anxiety?

It is mild. She howls a little (softly) and yes, she scratches (kills) the back flyscreen (OH has drilled a piece of masonite onto the door so she can scratch all she likes) and scratches at the side gate (don't care about that either). I just wonder all the time as to

a) has she had this all her life, if so, how would owners live with that for four years and not have tried to sort it out (maybe they tried, who knows)

b) could it be caused by having several litters

c) could it be caused by the pups being separated from her earlier than normal

d) then I know you can have 'change in living circumstances' etc

It's bizarre because she's not an anxious dog, sorry, she doesn't appear to be an anxious dog. She's VERY lazy. She just lies around all day. Of course she's exercised daily and taken to offleash dog areas etc but she's so calm and VERY submissive. If I didn't exercise her, she'd just lay around all day. She's obedient, house trained, excellent on a lead, well mannered, polite, good with dogs, great with children, wants to kill cats and is quiet.

I am using the ignore method etc and not making a big deal of comings and goings and to be honest, it's not a severe case, it is I believe a mild case but I just keep wondering how this came about.

We've had her for two and a half months so it's still early days. I bought the book 'I'll be home soon' which is fabulous. It actually says that CSA should be cured between 6-8 weeks using their method. Ours isn't cured but we're working on it.

So come on all you experienced rescuers, what are your theories as to how she may have or any of your dogs that have had CSA ended up with it? Thank you.

Me xox

[aspenleaf]

Oooookkkaaaaaayyy....

[Greytmate]

Genetic predisposition, triggered by environment.

It doesn't matter what the trigger was, if she is showing anxiety when left alone in your yard, you need to continue working on that.

[spottychick]

My young dally has it a bit. I don't know why. Perhaps it's because I spend too much time at home so she's never got used to me being away. I've worked at home all the time I've had her. None of the other dogs had the problem and I used to work full time when I had them.

Also, she was very young when I rescued her - just 6 weeks - so I dunno if that has anything to do with it. Maybe.

[Starkehre]

It may not even be separation anxiety. A very common used term that is thrown around when dogs have not often been clinically or behaviourally diagnosed.

I am not saying that your dog does not suffer with separation anxiety, but it may have a simple case of being overly dependant on your company, which is not the same thing. Often symptoms can be quite similar.

If it is over dependance, then this is usually created by similar reasons and some, that spottychick has just explained.

It is not uncommon for rescue dogs to have feelings of abandonment. Also, previous owners may not have ever taught the dog to be confident and comfortable in it's own company. But as you are aware, you will never really know for sure.

As you are keen to resolve the issues, and I think that is wonderful, it may be a good idea to have the dog assessed to see if it is actually separation anxiety that you are dealing with.

Best of luck with improvement.

Edited December 29, 2009 by dyzney

[Czara]

So come on all you experienced rescuers, what are your theories as to how she may have or any of your dogs that have had CSA ended up with it? Thank you.

Having found a good home after what she had been through (pound, shelter and breed rescue), my dog was (very understandably!) quite anxious to be separated from me at the beginning. Although taking time off to settle her in, I made a point from early on of leaving for short periods of time to get her used to eventually longer absences.

The poor thing threw up the first time I left! But after a couple of months she got used to the idea that this was her home now, that I would always come back and feed her, walk her and give her whatever she needs. A lamb shank helps to get over the first half hour!

I think it's perfectly understandable that dogs who have been neglected or traumatised are afraid to lose their new found leader. They need to build up their sense of security and confidence in their new home. It only took a couple of months for my girl. She is very happy, secure and contented now!

Other people I know who adopted dogs likewise found separation anxiety disappeared a few months after the dogs settled in.

Nothing 'genetic' about it, easily cured with common sense and TLC, and no need for 'doggy shrinks' or complex theories! ;)

[Greytmate]

Other people I know who adopted dogs likewise found separation anxiety disappeared a few months after the dogs settled in.

Nothing 'genetic' about it, easily cured with common sense and TLC, and no need for 'doggy shrinks' or complex theories!

Temperament and the likelihood to become anxious is genetic. Environment will then affect that baseline temperament.

Not all anxiety is easily cured with common sense and TLC and there sometimes is a need for complex behaviour modification. The OP is making a good start with a program designed to overcome separation anxiety, but should know that more help is available if the behaviour worsens.

It can be very gratifying for adopters to imagine that their dogs have been abused or severely neglected and that this can be fixed with giving the dog the love and attention it didn't get before. Sometimes they are right, but commonly this over-attention given to the newly adopted dog doesn't reduce the likelihood of separation anxiety type behaviours and can even increase them.

[aspenleaf]

Thank you for your comments. I was very embarrassed to think that I had no replies.

Yes, it's been diagnosed by a behaviourist. I have a consult with her on the 20th January.

I am a stay at home Mom and my husband works from home, so there is usually someone here all the time which I believe may be the problem (not enough time being spent alone). When I'm gone, she's fine, when OH is gone, she's fine. When we're all gone (2 adults, 3 kids), I know she is stressed. Having said all that, she has improved significantly. I can drive out of the garage and she will when asked sit and wait while the garage door goes down and just stays there (she appears more comfortable waiting in the garage for my car to return). She never would have done that at first.

She's not extreme by following me from room to room etc, nor does she scratch at the door to come inside when we put her outside and we're inside. She can spend hours out on the deck and in the backyard with the doors closed and be content. It's just this fear of being alone.

I go out on short trips ie kids school etc but we're never out for long periods at a time (my husband travels OS alot for work though - but I'm still here).

Anyhow, I will keep doing what I'm doing. I'm also very consistent with NILIF. I think it is working, but as I said to the behaviourist, some days she's just more stressed than others.

My friend has a rescue and she believes it took him a good 5-6 months to stop his behaviour issues. He's such a great dog now. He had fear biting, peeing in the house, shaking etc so different from CSA.

Anyhow, thanks again for your input.

Happy New Year to all xox.

[Greytmate]

Anyhow, I will keep doing what I'm doing. I'm also very consistent with NILIF. I think it is working, but as I said to the behaviourist, some days she's just more stressed than others.

My friend has a rescue and she believes it took him a good 5-6 months to stop his behaviour issues. He's such a great dog now. He had fear biting, peeing in the house, shaking etc so different from CSA.

All dogs are different, they all ended up in rescue for different reasons and there is no benefit in comparing one to another in terms of how long problems take to fix. There are plenty of dogs being adopted from Rescue organisations that are very well-behaved right from day one. Most normal dogs take a week or two to settle in.

No reputable rescue organisation would adopt out a dog that fear bites as well as the rest of that behaviour. I think your friend's experience of taking 5 - 6 months is very unusual. Not every one wants a problem dog and most rescue dogs wouldnt have such severe problems.

I hope the organisation that you adopted the dog from is assisting you with the probblems you are now having. A reputable rescue group would.

[sas]

I have a foster here who we have been working through seperation anxiety with, however she is an inside dog, although you could use the same method and just adapt it to an outside dog i.e. do the below with whatever her triggers are.

As soon as I would stand up she would stand up, so I stood up and then sat down the moment she stood up until she no longer stood up when I did, they may have taken half an hour.

Next step is to stand up and take some steps, if she got up, I would go back and sit down and would repeat this process until I could take 5 steps without her getting up.

This whole cycle continued until I could get to the letterbox and then finially leave.

It's something we did everyday, if I didn't have time to go through the whole process, we may just have done the stand up and sit down process.

Implemented NILIF with 100% consistency.

When you start doing NILIF the dog can take backward steps, don't worry, just keep marching forward.

This is all just a start though, a session with a Behaviourist will assist you greatly. The 20th of Jan is a long time away, have you considered using a different Behaviourist/Trainer that can see you sooner?

Last of all, one thing I do say about Rescues who have come from troubled or neglected pasts....they don't need you to feel sorry for them, they need a leader, free attention and pitty will only intensify these behaviour problems.

Edited December 30, 2009 by sas

[sas]

Nothing 'genetic' about it, easily cured with common sense and TLC, and no need for 'doggy shrinks' or complex theories!

I worry who you're spouting this kind of mis-information too. I'm sorry but you don't have enough education of animal behavioural science from that comment.

[sas]

My young dally has it a bit. I don't know why. Perhaps it's because I spend too much time at home so she's never got used to me being away. I've worked at home all the time I've had her. None of the other dogs had the problem and I used to work full time when I had them.

Also, she was very young when I rescued her - just 6 weeks - so I dunno if that has anything to do with it. Maybe.

Consider having her spend an hour outside whilst you're home everyday and then build that up, sometimes dogs with owners who work from home forget they are dogs and need to be reminded.

Work with your dogs triggers, what triggers the dog to start showing axiety that you're leaving.

[spottychick]

My young dally has it a bit. I don't know why. Perhaps it's because I spend too much time at home so she's never got used to me being away. I've worked at home all the time I've had her. None of the other dogs had the problem and I used to work full time when I had them.

Also, she was very young when I rescued her - just 6 weeks - so I dunno if that has anything to do with it. Maybe.

Consider having her spend an hour outside whilst you're home everyday and then build that up, sometimes dogs with owners who work from home forget they are dogs and need to be reminded.

Work with your dogs triggers, what triggers the dog to start showing axiety that you're leaving.

Hey sas

Thanks for that. SHe's not too bad and I'm not worried about it atm but it could become a problem if we ever move into a more populated area because she howls and carries on for ages after I've gone (so I'm told LOL)

SHe doesn't get destructive or anything else tho. Just runs around, leaps hysterically up at fences and carries on like her life is over.

I think chucking her outside now and again might be a good idea tho! I'll wait till we have the other dog here and settled tho so she's not too lonely. It might be a bit harsh to suddenly start randomly shutting her outside entirely alone given that she's recently lost two members of her doggy family and suddenly become an only dog. The new dog is used to being outside so that might help her deal with it too.

Triggers - er... not sure really. SHe doesn't react until I'm actually driving off because when I get car keys, put on shoes etc she just assumes she's coming too so she just sits around patiently waiting

Also she loses it in public if I go away from her. FOr example, I took her and the other dog to the vet. A friend held her in the waiting room while I took the other dog in for a consult/x-rays etc and she screamed the place down. They vet people tried offering her treats etc but she ignored everyone and just pulled frantically on her lead crying for me/the other dog????. I could hear her and so could the other dog who kept responding to her. It was awful. When I got back to her she was making this freaky shivery whimpering noise for a while. Very distressed.

She was left in the car next time.

[aspenleaf]

God I'm hopeless at posting. I'm trying to figure out how to quote a certain line and then comment on it. What is a 'fast reply'? Nothing happens when I click on it.

Anyhow, we got Tessa directly from Hawkesbury Pound, not a rescue org.

She is an indoor dog.

Referring to what SAS said, my OH mentions that Tessa needs to be reminded that she is a dog and puts her outside more often that I do.

Still trying to figure out the trigger. It varies. She's not bad when we leave. I know she's okay for 20 minutes after we leave because I have parked around the corner and crept back to the house and listened to her. She did nothing for 20 minutes, I got impatient and went back to my car and drove in. She was fine upon arrival. My neighbour tells me what she's doing. Apparently she sits on her back legs and just scratches the masonite that's been screwed to the back screen, then stops, then later starts up again. My neighbour said that it's nothing to worry about neighbour wise. She said that the howl is very faint, it's more like a cry.

I would just love to know that when we leave adn while we're gone, she's okay.

She's got great teeth for a four year old so I reckon the neighbours just gave her bones to keep her occupied whilst they were absent.

My behaviourist offered this week but my OH is away OS until 15 January and the behaviourist would like to see how the whole family interact with her.

[aspenleaf]

Spottychick, does your dog still display this anxiety when there is another dog left with her?

I was thinking of getting another dog as I was so sure that Tessa had a fear of being alone but the behaviourist said 'DO NOT GET ANOTHER DOG' as Tessa's behaviour will rub off onto the second dog and I'll have two nutbags to deal with. I am so very disappointed that I'm not allowed to get another dog because if Tessa didn't display this behaviour, I'd be looking for another dog sooner rather than later. I would love to have two dogs but now I can't have that. BUM!

[sas]

My young dally has it a bit. I don't know why. Perhaps it's because I spend too much time at home so she's never got used to me being away. I've worked at home all the time I've had her. None of the other dogs had the problem and I used to work full time when I had them.

Also, she was very young when I rescued her - just 6 weeks - so I dunno if that has anything to do with it. Maybe.

Consider having her spend an hour outside whilst you're home everyday and then build that up, sometimes dogs with owners who work from home forget they are dogs and need to be reminded.

Work with your dogs triggers, what triggers the dog to start showing axiety that you're leaving.

Hey sas

Thanks for that. SHe's not too bad and I'm not worried about it atm but it could become a problem if we ever move into a more populated area because she howls and carries on for ages after I've gone (so I'm told LOL)

SHe doesn't get destructive or anything else tho. Just runs around, leaps hysterically up at fences and carries on like her life is over.

I think chucking her outside now and again might be a good idea tho! I'll wait till we have the other dog here and settled tho so she's not too lonely. It might be a bit harsh to suddenly start randomly shutting her outside entirely alone given that she's recently lost two members of her doggy family and suddenly become an only dog. The new dog is used to being outside so that might help her deal with it too.

Triggers - er... not sure really. SHe doesn't react until I'm actually driving off because when I get car keys, put on shoes etc she just assumes she's coming too so she just sits around patiently waiting

Also she loses it in public if I go away from her. FOr example, I took her and the other dog to the vet. A friend held her in the waiting room while I took the other dog in for a consult/x-rays etc and she screamed the place down. They vet people tried offering her treats etc but she ignored everyone and just pulled frantically on her lead crying for me/the other dog????. I could hear her and so could the other dog who kept responding to her. It was awful. When I got back to her she was making this freaky shivery whimpering noise for a while. Very distressed.

She was left in the car next time.

I think you've actually highlighted one of the problems there and that is that you think it's too harsh to chuck her out on her own....she's a dog and she can handle it just fine if you approach it the right way and give her the Leadership she needs

Adding a dog to the situation won't make a difference, the dogs anxiety is with you, a companion will not help.

Triggers, you can drive down the drive way and then come back and then drive down the road etc.

RE: Vet Visit, sounds like your dog actually has pretty bad seperation axiety and you may benefit from a session with a Behaviourist or if you're not looking at going down that road, have a look at the Jan Fennel Dog Listener books.

Good luck.

[sas]

Spottychick, does your dog still display this anxiety when there is another dog left with her?

I was thinking of getting another dog as I was so sure that Tessa had a fear of being alone but the behaviourist said 'DO NOT GET ANOTHER DOG' as Tessa's behaviour will rub off onto the second dog and I'll have two nutbags to deal with. I am so very disappointed that I'm not allowed to get another dog because if Tessa didn't display this behaviour, I'd be looking for another dog sooner rather than later. I would love to have two dogs but now I can't have that. BUM!

Yep don't add another dog when your current dog has issues.

Dogs with seperation anxiety don't give two hoots about canine company.

[spottychick]

Spottychick, does your dog still display this anxiety when there is another dog left with her?

I was thinking of getting another dog as I was so sure that Tessa had a fear of being alone but the behaviourist said 'DO NOT GET ANOTHER DOG' as Tessa's behaviour will rub off onto the second dog and I'll have two nutbags to deal with. I am so very disappointed that I'm not allowed to get another dog because if Tessa didn't display this behaviour, I'd be looking for another dog sooner rather than later. I would love to have two dogs but now I can't have that. BUM!

Hey berry

She wasn't as bad about me leaving when I had the other dogs around, especially when the old girl was here who she thought of as her mum I think. She'd spend a lot of time curled up with the old girl when I wasn't there. Then both she and the boy dog went a bit silly after the old dog died. The old girl was the alpha in their relationship and they always followed her lead - and she was a VERY calm dog.

But the young girl's definitely become worse since I lost our male dally a few weeks ago and she's been alone.

[spottychick]

I think you've actually highlighted one of the problems there and that is that you think it's too harsh to chuck her out on her own....she's a dog and she can handle it just fine if you approach it the right way and give her the Leadership she needs

Adding a dog to the situation won't make a difference, the dogs anxiety is with you, a companion will not help.

Triggers, you can drive down the drive way and then come back and then drive down the road etc.

RE: Vet Visit, sounds like your dog actually has pretty bad seperation axiety and you may benefit from a session with a Behaviourist or if you're not looking at going down that road, have a look at the Jan Fennel Dog Listener books.

Good luck.

Hmm you may be right but I also know how depressed my girl has been since the boy died 4 weeks ago - she lost her apetite, had no energy, looked for him all the time and sat in his fave spot crying. ANd she is usually a very happy energetic dog.

Even when I took her to our local parks all she would do is whine and walk miserably around the park trying to find the other dog. SHe has always had this thing about herding - LOL - she likes to herd things, people, dogs, horses etc and whenever I couldn't find my other dog when we were out walking and started calling him, she'd go on alert, scan for him then go find him, herd him up and bring him back.

She's just now starting to cheer up a bit and I'm a bit cautious about upsetting her atm.

The driving up and down thing sounds good!! I'll definitely give that a go.

Thanks for the tips! I'll go check out the Dog Listener book

[sas]

I think you've actually highlighted one of the problems there and that is that you think it's too harsh to chuck her out on her own....she's a dog and she can handle it just fine if you approach it the right way and give her the Leadership she needs

Adding a dog to the situation won't make a difference, the dogs anxiety is with you, a companion will not help.

Triggers, you can drive down the drive way and then come back and then drive down the road etc.

RE: Vet Visit, sounds like your dog actually has pretty bad seperation axiety and you may benefit from a session with a Behaviourist or if you're not looking at going down that road, have a look at the Jan Fennel Dog Listener books.

Good luck.

Hmm you may be right but I also know how depressed my girl has been since the boy died 4 weeks ago - she lost her apetite, had no energy, looked for him all the time and sat in his fave spot crying. ANd she is usually a very happy energetic dog.

Even when I took her to our local parks all she would do is whine and walk miserably around the park trying to find the other dog. SHe has always had this thing about herding - LOL - she likes to herd things, people, dogs, horses etc and whenever I couldn't find my other dog when we were out walking and started calling him, she'd go on alert, scan for him then go find him, herd him up and bring him back.

She's just now starting to cheer up a bit and I'm a bit cautious about upsetting her atm.

The driving up and down thing sounds good!! I'll definitely give that a go.

Thanks for the tips! I'll go check out the Dog Listener book

When you talk about your dog, you talk about her using human emotions, I think it would be a really good ideal to have a Behaviourist come and look at the realtionship you have with your dog and advise you from there