Early De Sexing ? Pro's And Con's ?

[MrToby]

Hey everyone.

We have a little male Chihuahua named Toby. He is 11 weeks old, and weighs in at 850 grams now. He is due for his 12 vac next week...The lady from which we purchased Toby was telling us about early de sexing to stop him from cocking his leg at all. We initially did not want a boy just for this reason, but when we heard about this it seemed like a good idea.

Now it appears to be quite big in the US, and a few vets are offering the service here as well. But i would like to hear from anyone that has had this done at such an early age. One vet will do him now, ( 800 gr weight limit) and another is at 2 months of age..

Very interested to hear both pro's and con's of this, as we really want to make the right decision for Toby as well.

[ellz]

Google it.

There has been a large push away from what once seemed to be an ideal solution to the overpopulation of dogs.

In some breeds early desexing has done more harm to the dogs than good.

I personally was considering it, but having read up on it, I won't do it. I'd rather wait until after sexual maturity.

If all you are worried about is the dog cocking its leg, then you need to be reading about housetraining methods as well as juvenile desexing I would suggest.

[benny123]

Agree with ellz, I would wait until he is older.

I have a large mixed breed rescue dog that was desexed at 8 weeks of age (although he weighed a hefty 9kgs at that point). He is now three and cocks his leg on just about every tree and post when we go for a walk. He never, ever cocks his leg in the house (even when other dogs have been here) as he's house trained and I've also noticed that he never cocks his leg in his own yard - he squats like a girl (or a puppy) .

So not sure how much validity there is to early desexing to stop leg cocking - it had no effect on mine.

[Sandra777]

I have never owned a desexed dogs, only entire. I have never had one that would cock his leg in the house. IMO it is a part of house training, not an excuse to neuter early. An desexed dogs can and do cock their leg, scent mark, mate bitches and be dog aggressive. It's a training issue no matter what the size of the dog.

[poodlefan]

Desexing your dog will not stop him cocking his leg.

I have a desexed BITCH that does it.

As for cocking legs in the house? That's a training issue.

I'd be waiting until he's at least six months old. Personally, I'd not have a dog done under 12 months old.

Edited December 28, 2009 by poodlefan

[Christina]

All puppies & kittens, as I breed cats & dogs, are desexed before they go to their new homes.

Done by a vet experienced in early desexing this is such a simple operation at this age. Only knocked out for a very short time, one stitch & coming home like they have not had anything done at all. Much easier on them than at 6 months or more.

Mine are done at a kilo minimum weight, vet wont do it under that. Usually around the 10 to 12 week mark.

There are many varying opinions on the subject, one being that growth/muscle may be affected.

For a toy breed this is hardly a matter for consideration. So your boy may, or not, grow taller, maybe half an inch. Will you notice ?

Every entire male I have ever had has peed & marked their territory. Every desexed boy I have had has not done this.

The choice is yours. I desex early for different reasons than you would however I would not do it if I considered it detrimental to their long term health. I doubt that my vet would either. The validity of pros & cons is not proven entirely either way.

Cat breeders have been early desexing for many years & are all for it. Dog breeders are the opposite.

I would wait until he is just over the kilo & around 11 or 12 weeks ( 8 weeks is too young) & go ahead. He will be absolutely fine.

[MrToby]

Thanks for the replies everyone. It seems we have more reading to do yet. The main reason for the early de sexing was to limit the affect on him, and less impact on him as well. I have read that it is only one stitch, and they are up and about a lot sooner then when older dogs are done.

We will be getting some help for sure in regards to training. Maybe looking at one of the many puppy pre school courses ...

[MrToby]

Well we have decided to wait until he is at least 1kg. His house training is going great, and we have had very few accidents since we started a routine with him.

[luvsdogs]

Previous pets I have had over the years have all been sp/neut at 6 m/o until I read this article.

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

I had Tilba spayed at 14 mths, 4 mths after her 1st heat. Just prior to having her done I found this article.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHea...euterInDogs.pdf

The only consideration used to be get them done b4 they reach sexual maturity. A dog got from the RSPCA in the mid 80's was 5.5 m/o & I was to take him back 2 weeks later so they could neuter him which we did. He used to squat & cock his leg.

[grace]

Good to see that you are going to get him desexed but why the hurry. I leave all mine till they are well over 6 months before I even think about desexing. They need time to mature and I agree with the others that desexing will not stop him lifting his leg, I had a puppy lifting his leg at 6 weeks.

[lucylotto]

Agree with ellz, I would wait until he is older.

I have a large mixed breed rescue dog that was desexed at 8 weeks of age (although he weighed a hefty 9kgs at that point). He is now three and cocks his leg on just about every tree and post when we go for a walk. He never, ever cocks his leg in the house (even when other dogs have been here) as he's house trained and I've also noticed that he never cocks his leg in his own yard - he squats like a girl (or a puppy) .

So not sure how much validity there is to early desexing to stop leg cocking - it had no effect on mine.

yep, my boy was desexed at 7 weeks and he still cocks his leg and marks if I take to another house where there are dogs either sex. I wasn't given the choice at point of purchase and thought it was the new trend. I would rethink if purchasing again.

[MrToby]

Yes well, the lady from where we got Mr Toby from pulled out the "Only sold as pets" contract only after we had agreed on which puppy we wanted. Did not mind too much as we are not interested in breeding him anyway. But this one thinks that she can come here and uplift him if we do not provide her with a cert of de sexing within a certain time frame... I simply do not trust her one bit after seeing how deceptive she can be. She called last week to ask if we wanted to drop him off at her place as she had 2 others going in that next day. Not a hope in hell i was leaving Toby with her for any reason. I will sit and wait all day for him if i have to , before i would let her have control of him again.

On one of the boys she took in last week, one was not done as his little bundles had not even dropped down yet. That is hoe soon she is taking them in now.

I would luv to see her try, and it would have to be a video moment for sure.

He was always going to get done at any rate, but when someone tries to force me to do something..Well, good luck with that is all i can say.

[MrToby]

Just showed all the replies here to Connie as well. Think we are going to wait for a while now.

[Christina]

Yes well, the lady from where we got Mr Toby from pulled out the "Only sold as pets" contract only after we had agreed on which puppy we wanted. Did not mind too much as we are not interested in breeding him anyway. But this one thinks that she can come here and uplift him if we do not provide her with a cert of de sexing within a certain time frame... I simply do not trust her one bit after seeing how deceptive she can be. She called last week to ask if we wanted to drop him off at her place as she had 2 others going in that next day. Not a hope in hell i was leaving Toby with her for any reason. I will sit and wait all day for him if i have to , before i would let her have control of him again.

On one of the boys she took in last week, one was not done as his little bundles had not even dropped down yet. That is hoe soon she is taking them in now.

I would luv to see her try, and it would have to be a video moment for sure.

He was always going to get done at any rate, but when someone tries to force me to do something..Well, good luck with that is all i can say.

I don't know in what way the breeder has been deceptive.

What I do know is that many people buy a puppy & say it is only as a pet. The breeder often lets them have the puppy with Limited Papers (non breeding pedigree) & agrees to desex.

Some, even worse, end up in puppy farms. People do lie to get them.

Later many of these people do not desex, they do breed from the dog, showing buyers the pedigree. The buyers don't know or care about registration or don't understand that the dog should not have been bred from.

So try & see why the breeder is anxious that you do this. They may have been let down in the past & something bad has happened with one of their puppies.

Although its a pain for you this shows that they do care.

Sometimes little bundles fail to drop down at 6 months & the vet has to go in & find them, so nothing wrong there, just slow.

The breeder has been honest in that the puppy is pet only & expects desexing.

If this was not what you wanted you had the option to say no & go somewhere else.

Try & see their side. People do not always do what they promise to. Its not force, its probably worry & panic on their side.

[ellz]

I personally feel there is an issue with the timing of the production of the contract. It should have been one of the first things discussed in your "transaction". You don't go into a shop and agree to buy a fridge and then get told just as you're about to hand over your money that you can have the fridge, but can't put bacon or ham in it until you've had it serviced by XXX technician in XXX weeks.

I sell my puppies on a "companion sales agreement" but it is given to the prospective purchaser prior to the puppy leaving home so that they can peruse it at their leisure and ask questions if they want to. For example, I have puppies due to leave home in 3 - 4 weeks and I have just started to send out the agreement to my puppy people now. All are aware from the beginning that they will be required to sign one and all are given the option of going elsewhere if they choose not to.

I can understand the breeder wishing to ensure that the deed is done, but I'm sure if you were to mention your wish to delay it due to your concerns that there wouldn't be a problem. There shouldn't be. And certainly if one of my puppy people came to me and said that they had been researching and would prefer to delay desexing for xxxxx reasons, I would be more than happy with that. It shows that they care enough to do their own research. But I would of course maintain contact with them to ensure that the agreement is still upheld.

[Nekhbet]

Be honest with the breeder - remember she has a breed that is notoriously puppy farmed and backyard bred she's just ensuring her precious pups dont end up down that road.

and if I was breeding I would have a contract like hers too so see it from her point of view.

If you just keep the lines of communication open, tell her you would simply like to see him mature a little before he has his janglers whipped out and that she's free to pop round anytime to see how he's going (within reason of course, he's still your dog ) then she shouldnt have a problem.

[Red Fox]

Yes well, the lady from where we got Mr Toby from pulled out the "Only sold as pets" contract only after we had agreed on which puppy we wanted. Did not mind too much as we are not interested in breeding him anyway. But this one thinks that she can come here and uplift him if we do not provide her with a cert of de sexing within a certain time frame... I simply do not trust her one bit after seeing how deceptive she can be. She called last week to ask if we wanted to drop him off at her place as she had 2 others going in that next day. Not a hope in hell i was leaving Toby with her for any reason. I will sit and wait all day for him if i have to , before i would let her have control of him again.

On one of the boys she took in last week, one was not done as his little bundles had not even dropped down yet. That is hoe soon she is taking them in now.

I would luv to see her try, and it would have to be a video moment for sure.

He was always going to get done at any rate, but when someone tries to force me to do something..Well, good luck with that is all i can say.

I think it's really going depend on your relationship with your dogs breeder. Have you spoken to her about this and told her WHY you wish to wait?

My boys contract also states something along the lines of the dog must be desexed between the ages of X and Y, must not be used for breeding and that failure to do so could result in the dog being repossessed (sorry, probably the wrong word for it but you get the point) by the breeder.

But after speaking to his breeder recently and explaining to her that I would prefer to wait at least another year before desexing, giving my reasoning and letting her know that I was prepared to give him a vasectomy within the given time frame and desex at a later point if it was a problem, she simply nodded and told me to take my time.

Though if I had I flat out refused and not been open about the subject I do think that the answer would have been different

Most breeders, especially those who have breeds popular with puppy farmers/BYB's are simply trying to protect their breed.

[luvsdogs]

After reading the links that I gave previously I would never buy a pup from a breeder that insisted on having the dog s/n b4 sexual maturity. Before getting my last dog I went to the RSPCA to see if they had any puppies available. They had a litter there that had been s/n the day b4 at 7 weeks old. I know why they do this now, because of ppl never bothering to bring puppies back to be done at the right age, in the case of a previous dog we got from them, which was 6 mths, we got him at 5.5 mths & took him back 2 weeks later for the op.

[KOUKLI]

My Jasmine is 18 weeks and is going in for desexing tommorow. I'm a little worried with all the mixed opinions on the subject but I think she will be alright. Jasmine is getting it done at a Vet Hospital in Werribee and they said there was no problem having her done as long as she has had all of her shots?

[luvsdogs]

Most vets would say that. Tilba was spayed 4 mths after her heat. The vet said it would be ok right after she had finished but I had heard you should wait until at least 2mths to allow everything to settle down to prevent haemorrhage.