How Do You Do It?

[JulesP]

Each time I get a new pup I toy with the idea of breeding again. Think I wrote a similar post 2 years ago when I got my last girl, lol.

I've bred one litter which caused me lots of distress when the vet asked me if I wanted him to save the bitch or the pups. (the bitch and pups made it btw). That was 11 years ago now and I don't think I have recovered yet.

I wondered in here and read the Litters Due in December thread that has had me absolutely howling.

So how do you do it, knowing all the things that can go wrong? Not just with the birth but with the new owners.

Do I just over think things too much?

[benshiva]

I've questioned myself a few times over the 9 years I've been breeding. I only average 1 litter a year and that is plenty for me.

It makes it all worthwhile to me when I see how much pleasure people get from owning a dog that I've bred. We had a visit on Boxing Day morning from a couple who own a dog of ours. Harry is now 7 years old and his owners marvelled at him remembering who we were. He was beside himself when they turned the corner into our street

All the BIS's in the world can't make up for the joy I see in the owners of a Benshiva BC Cheesy I know, but that's how I feel

[Stolzseinrotts]

All the BIS's in the world can't make up for the joy I see in the owners of a Benshiva BC ;) Cheesy I know, but that's how I feel

That's not cheesy at all, I think it is what makes breeding quality dogs all about. I cherish the pictures and stories of joy from the puppy owners.

I too cry with the owners who have lost their beloved pet to old age. But at the end of the day I know that the owners have been enriched by their pets being a part of their lives and are grateful, and this I am very proud of

Yes things can go wrong when breeding but that is the risk you take, a lot of heartache but so much joy!

[ellz]

Realistically it's not all bad. Bad luck usually comes in cycles, unless it happens ALL the time and then as a breeder, you would seriously need to question your abilities, aims and objectives.

The December thread isn't the only "sad" thread, October and November had their fair share of horror stories as do other months. It just tends to make it seem worse when a lot of breeders congregate in one place and share stories. I'm sure that if you averaged out the bad news over ALL dog breeders everywhere, and not just the ones who post here, it wouldn't look anywhere near as daunting.

For my part, from the two litters that I had in 2009, I had one disaster and one that COULD have been a disaster had I not been alert to the possibilities. All ended well and that's what matters in the long run. I've got 10 healthy puppies from the two litters and of those 10 puppies, at least 5 will make somebody else's families complete (I hope).

[JulesP]

I did recently get a call from one of the people that adopted one of my first litter to ask if I was still breeding as that border had crossed the bridge. It was touching that they wanted another pup from me.

[ellz]

I did recently get a call from one of the people that adopted one of my first litter to ask if I was still breeding as that border had crossed the bridge. It was touching that they wanted another pup from me.

Exactly. And THAT'S why we keep going back for more!

[asal]

I did recently get a call from one of the people that adopted one of my first litter to ask if I was still breeding as that border had crossed the bridge. It was touching that they wanted another pup from me.

Exactly. And THAT'S why we keep going back for more!

YES so true, their joy reinfects you.

and even though at times it does seem madness to risk the heartache, you get that call or visit from wonderful people you would probably have never met otherwise and you share a common joy. some of my best friends we met for the first time when they came to see a puppy or a foal.

another friend of nearly 30 years we bought our first stud heifer from.

Edited December 28, 2009 by asal

[Bisart Dobes]

Passion - passion and more passion

The joy of one of our 'puppies' turning themselves inside out when they see us again and yes their owners being amazed when they do.

The joy of one of our 'puppies' nearly escaping from his families car when they turn into our street and then pulling them all the way to the front door.

The joy of hearing the pride in one of our 'puppies' owners voices when they ring to tell us about him gaining his latest title.

The joy of hearing the love in one of our 'puppies' owners voices when they ring to tell us just how great he is with the new baby and how much he adores their 2 yr old.

I could go on and on - the joy sure outweighs the sorrows.

[asal]

many many years ago we were walking though a dog pound, friends had lost their dog and were looking to check he wasnt there. those were the days when microchipping wasnt mandatory.

there wagging her tail at us was a ringer for my cattledogs and commented . my daughter was adamant that was one of our dogs. so we enquired about her. turned out she was chipped and her owner was at the oaks but had not answered any letters or phone calls. she was due to be put down in two hours.

they gave me the chip number and i flew home, and yep she was one of mine. phoned them and raced back to rescue her.

when she jumped out of the car where did she run. to her mum. n she had left us at 8 weeks and was now 16 months old. forget her registered name she was ever after named LUCKY.

[asal]

even weirder only a few years ago walking through a horse sale daugher stopped dead staring at a grey gelding and insisting he was a son of nea.

me? flummoxed i knew where all his progey were how could this one be by him?

goes up to the auctioneer and asks who is the seller. yep but he had already been sold to a dogger by then. took weeks to rescue him

[Trisven13]

All the BIS's in the world can't make up for the joy I see in the owners of a Benshiva BC ;) Cheesy I know, but that's how I feel

And it is wonderful to have a breeder who cares about those things. With Grover having been so sick over the last 4 days we've been in constant communication with his breeders. They have been so supportive - absolutely unbelievable to be honest. Having breeders who care about your dog is lovely too

I'm hoping to have my first litter next year with my much loved girl Marie. I will admit that the closer it gets the fear of something going wrong and the risk of losing her gets higher. I'm not sure if I'd want to go back either if something went wrong.

[dancinbcs]

I have only bred 12 litters in 26 years because I find the whole thing very stressful. I worry about the bitch during the delivery and then the hassle of finding the right homes. But when you do find the right homes and you look at what you have kept and know all your planning paid off, it is all worthwhile.

Most of the true horror stories I have heard relate to incompetant vets and I would never attempt to breed without having a top notch breeders vet available 24/7. Having the average pet vet attend to a whelping bitch in distress is like asking the average GP to assist in a complicated human birth. They just don't have the experience and the consequence can be dead puppies and sometimes a dead bitch. Other vets just cannot be bothered with the hassle of being on call and doing emergency caesars when they are needed (usually middle of the night or on a public holiday). If you only breed from good whelping lines, the problems should be minimal but if things do go awry then a good vet will be the best friend you will ever have.

I don't believe in breeding on from lines that do not usually have normal seasons, mate, whelp and mother easily and would never contemplate breeding any of the breeds where this is not the norm. Of course puppies can get stuck if they are in the wrong position and infections can occur but if you keep breeding ability at the top of your requirements then things should go right more often than they go wrong.

My first BC bitch was from a kennel where the bitches whelped easily and were top mothers. She mated easily and delivered my first litter of 6 in less than 2 hours with no assistance. Her milk was a little slow to come in so I supplemented the puppies for a couple of days but after that it was just a matter of keep feeding the bitch and she took care of the babies until I started to wean them. That is what dog breeding should be like.

[JulesP]

Yes my problem was with the vet. I was sure that she was whelping but got told I was being a silly first time breeder. Then I got green pus. Got sent home with injections to try and induce her. Didn't work and went back to get asked if I wanted the bitch or pups saved. Did a c-section and 3 out of the 4 pups lived. Pup that caused the trouble was stuck.

I loved having the pups themselves but didn't enjoy the homing process.

[ellz]

I loved having the pups themselves but didn't enjoy the homing process.

I hear you!

I'm getting all manner of emails and phone calls at the moment about my babies. Which is great, except that I don't have a crystal ball. I will NOT committ to selling any particular individual at this stage. They are NOT going on Main Registration no matter how much money I am offered, how much begging is done or how may threats are made. And I'll raise my puppies my way, thank you!

[asal]

theres a lot in favour of having a crystal ball. well long as it works.

wouldnt that be wonderful. sigh

[JulesP]

Actually asal writing this thread and thinking further gave me part of the answer or why I am so anxious about breeding - I am a control freak! And obviously there is a heap that you can't control with breeding. My litter was super planned and researched but it still went wrong. So yes a crystal ball would be really good!

[Risyntira]

Jules, I wish you luck in which ever path you take.

You have a lovely dog coming and from excellent lines, as far as I can see has the potential to have a 'stress-free' whelping, I'm sure your breeder will encourage you and support you.

11 years ago not many vets would assist in helping save a bitch and her puppies, technoligy today is much more advanced and can pick up just about everything. Getting a scan/xray done a couple of weeks before whelping can tell you how many to expect (roughly) and the size of the pups and pelvis of mum.

The vet you had all those years ago was probably prepairing you for the worst, no one wants to loss a bitch and / or her puppies, I've lost a couple of puppies (normally only one, but did loss two in my very first litter) Yes, it's heartbreaking (especially when the stud dog owner tells you to 'get over it'!) but look at those who have lost the mum and all their babies, they are still breeding and still proud, it takes time, but they soon have another litter and come onto DOL to boast about the new additions.

There is a control freak in everyone, and it's normal for every breeder to want everything to go smoothly and free from problems.

[Yarrowfell]

Pug are the most hearbreaking breed to ever have and even though they break my heart at times I still love them and would breed again.

I have has 4 litters this year:

Litter 1: Lost Mum and all 5 babies

Litter 2: 2M born (1M survived)

Litter 3: 5M and 2F born (3M and 1F survived)

Litter 4: 2M and 1F born (1F survived)

The 1st 3 weeks we watch the babies 24/7 and mum are never left with the babies unless we are watching them. Mortality rates are high enough without Mums squashing the bubs.

Why do I do it? Because the joy I get from watching the bubs is amazing and seeing them go to their new homes where I know they will be loved and cared for makes it all worth the heartache and pain.

Lucky I have a fantastic vet that knows my girls and trust me when I say there is something not right.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Yarrowfell

[Christina]

Your traumatic experience would have put me off too, very scary & understandable.

I do it with passion. These breeds would die out if breeders did not breed. It has to be your thing really. Love & tolerance of animals, the births, joys & inevitable losses, which by the law of averages & nature will occur.

Not many losses or much going wrong, apart from the minor, for me but if I lost a whole litter that may put me off.

I have almost given up several times. Reasons are difficulty finding healthy breeding lines. Breeding cats too I have desexed so many after one litter. Know my poodle lines history much better.

Finding homes is the other thing. So many weird/unsuitable enquiries/people. Many wonderful ones too who keep in touch & ask for another baby which helps heaps but I worry so much about how they are in life. The worst for me is letting them go.

2 bad experiences. A kitten I flew back to me, which I saw advertised on the net interstate & knew it was one of mine. Lucky I saw it & got it back.

The other one was so upsetting but the cat is fine & by luck landed in the home of one of my vet nurses by amazing twist of fate. Was going to be PTS as the daughter wanted a rabbit They could have brought it back to me as I state in care sheet that I do a lifetime re home.

This has put me right off & I have desexed the cats, my GR CH too, as I was getting the most stupid enquiries for this particular breed.

Thought I could pick the unsuitable & turned 6 down for 1 cat, but shaken my faith that I got this one so wrong.

Breeding, whelping, medical issues, the mess & fun are the easy parts for me its the responsibility of ensuring a good home thats the hard part. Many keep in touch for a long time but not all.

[dancinbcs]

Yes my problem was with the vet. I was sure that she was whelping but got told I was being a silly first time breeder. Then I got green pus. Got sent home with injections to try and induce her. Didn't work and went back to get asked if I wanted the bitch or pups saved. Did a c-section and 3 out of the 4 pups lived. Pup that caused the trouble was stuck.

I loved having the pups themselves but didn't enjoy the homing process.

With a breed like Border Collies and the right vet the chances of things going seriously wrong are minimal. With all dogs there are occasionally puppies that will not make it for various reasons and losing them is just part of being a breeder. Dogs have multiple progeny because nature allows for the fact that some won't survive.

Wading through the buyers until you find the right match for your babies can be a pain but I have oly ever got one choice wrong. I went against my gut instinct because this family were well known to close friends. Luckily with my friend's help we managed to buy the puppy back at 5 months, but I learnt to go with my feelins not just by logic. The only other dog I have ever had returned was from the same litter and he was returned at 11 months when his owner's life fell apart. Other than that my babies have all had long happy lives with their families.