sandgrubber Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) I seem to remember that the expected gestation period for surgical AI was 61 rather than 63 days because the insemination is (ideally) done at the time of or hours before ovulation. . . . and that the day count was likely to be pretty much exactly 61 because there is little uncertainty about the time of ovulation. As I watch Jarrah get rounder and rounder and try to plan my days to accommodate the whelping, I would be grateful to know if others have found their girls know about the 61 day thing. Edited December 27, 2009 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellabella Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hi, I breed Hungarian Vizslas and Hungarian Wirehaired Vizslas and I have had 4 AI's now. Two successful and two not .The gestation period for my AI's has always been 59 days. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 It's always been my understanding that a bitch whelps 63 days from ovulation, the day of mating has little to do with it. Good luck with the pups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffordz Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 We have had 2 surgical AI's now - 1 was whelped the evening of 58 and the other the evening of 59. From what I understand they are usually always 59 or thereabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellabella Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hi Sandgrubber, I was speaking of frozen semen when, after prog tests, the semen is implanted as near as possible to the time the eggs are ready to be impregnated, as frozen semen does not have the life period of normal semen. In this case I believe the gestation period to be 59 days. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashnchief Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 It's always been my understanding that a bitch whelps 63 days from ovulation, the day of mating has little to do with it.Good luck with the pups Agreed, this is correct. Natural, chilled or frozen makes no difference it is the egg that is the determining factor not the insemination. If you know via Prog test the exact day of ovulation than it is easy to track when your bitch is due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) It's always been my understanding that a bitch whelps 63 days from ovulation, the day of mating has little to do with it.Good luck with the pups Agreed, this is correct. Natural, chilled or frozen makes no difference it is the egg that is the determining factor not the insemination. If you know via Prog test the exact day of ovulation than it is easy to track when your bitch is due. Here's what makes frozen AI different (from an excellent piece on K9 reproduction . . . ", insemination with frozen-thawed semen is best performed 3-4 days following the LH surge (2-3 days following ovulation)." I had it wrong above in saying the AI was done at ovulation. Edited December 27, 2009 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 It's always been my understanding that a bitch whelps 63 days from ovulation, the day of mating has little to do with it.Good luck with the pups Agreed, this is correct. Natural, chilled or frozen makes no difference it is the egg that is the determining factor not the insemination. If you know via Prog test the exact day of ovulation than it is easy to track when your bitch is due. Here's what makes frozen AI different (from an excellent piece on K9 reproduction . . . ", insemination with frozen-thawed semen is best performed 3-4 days following the LH surge (2-3 days following ovulation)." I had it wrong above in saying the AI was done at ovulation. Yep "mating" occurs 2 or 3 days after ovulation so if the bitch whelps 59 or 60 days from mating she has whelped 62 or 63 days from ovulation. The method of delivering the sperm to the jobsite is irrelevant. Only done frozen semen AI once (transcervical) and she was booked for a caesar 60 days after her first insemination (as she only had one pup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashnchief Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 (edited) It's always been my understanding that a bitch whelps 63 days from ovulation, the day of mating has little to do with it.Good luck with the pups Agreed, this is correct. Natural, chilled or frozen makes no difference it is the egg that is the determining factor not the insemination. If you know via Prog test the exact day of ovulation than it is easy to track when your bitch is due. Here's what makes frozen AI different (from an excellent piece on K9 reproduction . . . ", insemination with frozen-thawed semen is best performed 3-4 days following the LH surge (2-3 days following ovulation)." I had it wrong above in saying the AI was done at ovulation. Yep "mating" occurs 2 or 3 days after ovulation so if the bitch whelps 59 or 60 days from mating she has whelped 62 or 63 days from ovulation. The method of delivering the sperm to the jobsite is irrelevant. Only done frozen semen AI once (transcervical) and she was booked for a caesar 60 days after her first insemination (as she only had one pup). Exactly......forget about when the mating or insemination is done, if you know the exact date of ovulation you count 63 days from then. A lot of people use 63days from mating when they do natural matings because you are really only guessing when ovulation has occurred, therefore many find that their bitches whelp early or much later! The egg itself begins the 'timeframe' from when it is ovulated or released, as we know it then begins to mature. Some will go on to be fertilised, others won't. Edited December 27, 2009 by tashnchief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 My repo vet said 61 days and when Fern didn't go by day 61 and I rang them they said not over day 63 from implant. Fern had a c-section on day 63. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 59-60 post implant...longer is reason for a section. I use progesterone for natural matings as well as I don't like to waste time or subject the bitch to unnecessary breedings as well as I like to know when she will whelp so I can plan around it. Have been doing it for years with success. Looking forward to the next breeding which will be a frozen implant. Hoping that things aren't too terribly different here than what I was used to in North America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centitout Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Day 60 for both my girls post implantation with frozen AI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I was always told that the difference with the shorter gestation is due to the lack of "travelling time" for the egg to meet the sperm. When an AI is done, the sperm is introduced to the egg more quickly resulting in a more rapid implantation. Whether that is the case or not, I have no idea. I have only ever done one AI in 23 years and that was my second litter. And that was only because the stud dog was a spoiled, cossetted housepet who had spent most of his life being corrected for humping things so when push came to shove, he was too scared of being told off to breed the bitch. Lovely litter resulted though, 3 black dogs and my first Australian Champion Truyank Over The Limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatolian Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 As has been said before, the gestation period has absolutely NOTHING to do with the sperm or the day that AI (or natural mating for that matter) occurs. The gestation period for a canine is 63 days after OVULATION. If you dont know when your girls ovulate then it is purely guess work on what day they will come out. On the 'high' scale of progesterone testing (nmol), bitches ovulate between 15 - 21nmol (low scale = 5 - 7ng). Once ovulation occurs, it takes around 2 days for the egg to mature and accept the sperm. This window may stay open for minutes, hours or days. Invariably it will stay open for 48 hours. If a bitch is to be frozen inseminated then insertion is done around this 48-72hrs post ovulation as this is the time when most of the eggs will be 'ready'. Hope this clears it all up. I have just done a surgical implant (camelot method) which was implanted on Sunday 20th Dec. I will be looking at doing a Caesarian on either 18th or 19th Feb, which is 60-61 days post implant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Looks like you all were right. It's day 59. Jarrah's temperature has dropped to 37 degrees. Unfortunately the air temperature is 39 . . . all six of my dogs, and the whelping box, are now in my bedroom, the only air conditioned room in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laneka Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Goodluck with your impending litter. One of my girls, 1st litter, natural mating whelped 63 days. 2nd mating frozen semen whelped at 60 days. I have always been told that they can whelp earlier with implant matings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Goodluck with your impending litter.One of my girls, 1st litter, natural mating whelped 63 days. 2nd mating frozen semen whelped at 60 days. I have always been told that they can whelp earlier with implant matings. She whelped at 63 days. We did a Ceasar .. . because it was a large litter of large puppies and she has a history of loosing a pup or two in whelping. 10 healthy pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nabs Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) My repo specialist has told us to be prepared for day 61 but it could be a day or so earlier! AI breeding normally is less than 63 days. It is very different to a natural breeding. Edited January 11, 2010 by riesenhaft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggie-mae Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Is that with a fresh AI also or just implanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Is that with a fresh AI also or just implanted? The question isn't so much mode of AI as timing of the bitch's cycle. Implantation is generally done to get the semen in a couple days after ovulation. Chilled semen lives longer in the womb and is thus may be put in vaginally a couple days earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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