Phd Study

[shel]

There's a paper here:

http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_f...een-bennett.pdf

and a media articles here:

http://aaws08.blogspot.com/2008/08/finding...et-dog-can.html

http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/46219

http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20080409-17913.html

[spottychick]

I'm just perpetually wary of anything to do with psychology LOL

I started a degree in it a while back but was constantly questioning the way they based their findings on "normal" parameters and would dismiss anything as irrelevant that didnt fit it. Eg doing class research on single parents and their children - the study already assumed kids identified certain things as "female" and other things as "male". But the family I was using for the study had a stay at home dad and a mum who worked so they had very different ideas. The solution in the class was to disregard the data from my family as it didn't fit the norm so it was an "anomoly" and not worth including - I begged to differ - a lot!!! I eventually quit the course.

Now this is a simple example - but it does indicate how these more complex major studies are formulated.

As another person who is not the Average Joe (I'm not sure I know anyone who is) I don't have much time for this stuff.

[Elfin]

There's a paper here:

http://www.daff.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_f...een-bennett.pdf

"Just as we’ve previously produced dogs able to herd sheep or

pull sleds, so we should be able to breed dogs perfectly suited to their role as

companions."

I thought there were already ANKC recognised breeds that were "produced" to be companions???

Parts of the article make sense, I find other parts not so clear as to the intentions... and there are MANY studies cited that are unpublished.

Dunno, I might just leave it to the behaviour experts and academics.

[Erny]

They are looking for completely driveless dogs?

I wouldn't think that's what the majority of Australians want in a dog. They want dogs to chase balls; to retrieve; to bark to alert a trespass; to respond well to trained commands. They want them for their personality traits (even if one of those is digging in the garden). They want them to chase the waves when they visit the ocean, and even perhaps to lark as they chase the seagulls away. They herald them when their dog herds their young children away from danger. And of course, those things, plus a dog who will listen when their owner needs to talk to off load a worry or an upset.

All of these instincts (and more) stem from the drives (whether they are subtle or more obvious) that they've been selectively bred for or incidentally to.

I'm picturing them looking for a dog that just hangs around the house with or without its owner. That just sits with or on the owner's lap when the owner sits. That just eats its meal. That just pees and poops outside. That will go for a walk but without much interest in the environment and therefore no behaviour that needs to be trained out. That doesn't 'care' very much about much.

Am I so passionate about dogs that this doesn't turn me on? Am I in a minority on that score?

ETA: I didn't read the link to the paper.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Erny

[shel]

Am I so passionate about dogs that this doesn't turn me on? Am I in a minority on that score?

A co-worker and I had a discussion exactly like this. We were chatting about a shelter that has its 'temperament testing' turned up so high, that there was only one 'kind' of dog that was passing; and this bomb proof, driveless, universally dopey-friendly wasn't the kind of dog either of us were interested in having (and felt others would probably feel the same way). That said, neither of us are 'normal' dog owners.

While this study argues that it's these 'undesireable' drives that are losing dogs their homes, its actually only a tiny percentage of the dogs living in Oz who ever need the help of a shelter. Most stick with their families, 'faults' and all. While identifying anything that puts a dogs at risk IMO is only a good thing (the more information and good science people have access to before they make a pet acquisition decision the better), I think there are many other reasons pets enter shelters; the dog's personality being just one of a host of factors leading to relinquishment.

:)shel

edited for spelling..

Edited December 27, 2009 by shel

[spottychick]

heavens no Erny! You're not alone. I don't want a "made-to-order" perfect dog any more than people want made to order perfect kids. The whole point, to me, of having dogs is discovering their personalities and loving all their quirks and individuality - whether it's good or naughty!! And give me a mischeivous dog with drive any day!!!

[tdierikx]

No dog is going to fit the description given by Erny without some effort on the part of the owners... if you train it, it will more likely do what you ask of it... if you love it, it will return that too... if you leave it in the back yard and don't interact with it, it will be more likely to be antisocial...

Personally I like my dogs to have distinct characters and personalities... a little bit "broken" is my perfect dog... *grin*

T.

[Nekhbet]

run far far away ... the working dog survey backfired big time ... Why would this one be any different.

hmmm DNA test breed and look at personality. Do you want to give the government fuel for scientifically proven BSL?

[Okami]

What Erny said

My two are also chalk and cheese and I love them both to pieces... even with all their "quirks"

What suits me, might not suit you, and what suits us might not suit the next guy...

I can't imagine a university study spawning broods of mutts... I mean surely people who are studying dogs know there are a bunch in the pound that deserve to be first on the picking order....

let us know if you ask them? and what they say?

x o x o

.

[Talien]

GATTICA! Dog stylez!

The testing may be nothing...initially, and generally tests etc are ok right up until the media gets hold of them... Yay for journalism! WooooooOOOooo <please be sure to note the loopy sarcasm>

[corvus]

Who's the PhD candidate?

Genetics that influence behaviour are pretty damn hard to identify. Without knowing anything about the project, it's possible the DNA side of things is just standard procedure. Initial talks with my PhD supervisor and a geneticist involved doing cheek swabs for my project even though I have no intention of looking at genetics. The idea is that if someone eventually does want to look at it, there will already be a DNA bank to plunder.

[Jed]

Elfin

The development of an accurate behavioural assessment that measures these characteristics in dogs would assist in identifying dogs best suited for living in Australian society and could be used to select breeding dogs.

Oh, don't walk away, run like hell!!

Sounds to me like the beginning of a recipe for Eurodog!!

There is no "best suited". Best suited may be a fiesty chihuahau zipping here and there, or a big calm deerhound, depending on the owner.

And it is the work the committed owner does which makes any dog "best suited".

[Cosmolo]

I'm sure the people involved would be happy to answer any questions.

I think its vital that temperament testing or behaviour assessments do NOT just pass dogs that fit one mould- we pass active drivey dogs, calm docile dogs and dogs with some mild issues. Identifying aspects of their personality means that matching the dog to the right owners (who are also all different and looking for different things) is much easier.

[dancinbcs]

I have a better idea. How about they do a study on humans and decide which ones are the most suitable dog owners. Then they could bring in a law to only allow the ones that pass the "dog friendly test" to reproduce.

Makes more sense than what they are trying to do.

The number one cause of dogs ending up in shelters is that the owners didn't bother to educate them. If they failed to educate their kids no one would be surprised when the kids grew up to be criminals and ended up in gaol. For some reason many people expect dogs to educate themselves and when they don't they dump them at a shelter and get another one hoping the next one will "grow up right". And so the cycle continues.

[spottychick]

I have a better idea. How about they do a study on humans and decide which ones are the most suitable dog owners. Then they could bring in a law to only allow the ones that pass the "dog friendly test" to reproduce.

I second that

[Elfin]

hmmm DNA test breed and look at personality. Do you want to give the government fuel for scientifically proven BSL?

This was one of my major concerns.

As Jed said "best suited" for one person is completely different to what is "best suited" for another.

Will we end up with a generic, bland, bog-standard, zero-drive, robotic, fluffy quadruped back-yard-dweller, that is deemed by all and sundry (including the government) to be the most "suitable" dog for us, and any other breeds are considered "unsuitable"?

Scary.

[Erny]

Will we end up with a generic, bland, bog-standard, zero-drive, robotic, fluffy quadruped back-yard-dweller, that is deemed by all and sundry (including the government) to be the most "suitable" dog for us, and any other breeds are considered "unsuitable"?

And if it happens anywhere first, it'll be Victoria ..... I'd hedge my bets.

Scary.

Ain't it. We may be labled "paranoid" but with current (and not so current) events which have followed laws, some of which we've been assured "would never be used in THAT way" (but have), then I don't think they should blame us. It's about trust. And I don't have any.

I have a better idea. How about they do a study on humans and decide which ones are the most suitable dog owners. Then they could bring in a law to only allow the ones that pass the "dog friendly test" to reproduce.

And maybe in addition do a study on the humans who make up the laws for humans who own dogs, and only allow the ones that pass the "sensible test" to reproduce.

[dancinbcs]

I have a better idea. How about they do a study on humans and decide which ones are the most suitable dog owners. Then they could bring in a law to only allow the ones that pass the "dog friendly test" to reproduce.

And maybe in addition do a study on the humans who make up the laws for humans who own dogs, and only allow the ones that pass the "sensible test" to reproduce.

That would rule out all the current politicians.

[Erny]

I have a better idea. How about they do a study on humans and decide which ones are the most suitable dog owners. Then they could bring in a law to only allow the ones that pass the "dog friendly test" to reproduce.

And maybe in addition do a study on the humans who make up the laws for humans who own dogs, and only allow the ones that pass the "sensible test" to reproduce.

That would rule out all the current politicians.

Oh well. Se la vie

*giggle* ..... No, just kidding. That wouldn't be good. There are some great politicians.

Short Quiz ..... name them

Edited to add the word *Short*

Edited December 27, 2009 by Erny

[Jed]

Cosmolo

I think its vital that temperament testing or behaviour assessments do NOT just pass dogs that fit one mould- we pass active drivey dogs, calm docile dogs and dogs with some mild issues. Identifying aspects of their personality means that matching the dog to the right owners (who are also all different and looking for different things) is much easier.

I came to this thread and was thinking about my pups while I waited for it to open. I saw your comment, and had to add ...

I have a boy and a girl, 8 weeks old, nice specimens of the breed. Willing, trainable, intelligent friendly, outgoing. The boy is a sweetheart, he's happy, outgoing, playful, social, and will be very trainable. A lovely family dog. Easy to home to a nice family who wants and understands the breed.

The girl is as smart as paint, hugely intelligent, plenty of drive, she will be the most rewarding dog for someone. She oozes personality and character. Whoever buys her will say in 10 years - "that's the best dog I've ever had". And she will be.

The boy will be easy to home, the girl will be more difficult.

She will need someone who is prepared to give her the attention and training she deserves, who understands the breed, and is special enough to foster her talents. Without that, she will turn into a dog who is running the household and causing problems. And will not reach her full potential, which will break her heart. And probably be sent back to me as a failure. She needs someone who will channel her intelligence into good works. So I shall have to interview a lot of people to find her special home.

Tonight, I put the pups to bed. They ate their dinner, and about an hour later, blood curdling screams erupted. I thought they were play fighting, but it went on too long. Girl pup was sitting on her haunches, looking up the hallway, screaming. Not stuck, not having her ear chewed, just screaming. I went and looked - she stopped screaming. I had forgotten to put the water dish in. I went and filled it, they had a drink. I was being called upon to do my duty.

It's all about matching the dog, no matter what type.