Large Straining Dog (march Update)

[cavNrott]

Wow cavnrott - that's really nice of you!! I'm guessing he'd be about the size (height) of a large rotty, perhaps less bulky than some rotties I've known tho - and would weigh around 40 + ks. But I'm not 100% sure. I'll ask his owner tomorrow if she knows more. He was so full on today it's hard to remember details LOL - he's one scary looking fella tho - until you realise he's a total sook.

The heavy guage choke/check chain would be exactly what I've been trying to get his owner to buy for him!! I was teaching the owner how to use my choke chain properly and it really did seem to be having a good effect on Buddy ...... till he broke it

I tried him with a Halti today (size 3) but he slipped it off his nose in less than a second. He also went fairly berserk when we put it on him, flipping himself violently over and backwards several times. LOL He was amazing! I was prepared to sit and wait until he wore himself out with that silliness but then he had the thing off his nose in no time anyway and then raced about looking pleased with himself. I just shook my head and laughed. Do you think a size 4 would be even easier to get off his nose or would it be better to use the larger size on him? He doesnt have a very long nose. It's not really flat either but definitely more blunt than a dalmatian. Rotties have short noses too dont they - come to think of it I wouldn't be surprised if this boy had rottie in him.....

The size three Halti only just fitted him around the neck so it was definitely the wrong size for him.

What is the difference between the halti and the gentle leader??? I'll go check online to see if it would be any better than the halti on him

Meanwhile I'll have a look at the members marketplace too.

Thanks so much for your help and kind offer.

The Easy Walk harness straps are adjustable so would probably fit him. Likewise the Gentle Leader head collar is adjustable. The GL head collar is less cumbersome than the Halti but I prefer the Halti. I think the dogs prefer the GL collar. Not sure if the size 4 Halti would be too big. They need to fit snugly around the neck. As you know, Halti's are also adjustable.

I was thinking if this dog is superdog as he sounds to be, I would put both chokers on him. I doubt he'd be able to break two of them. The owner wouldn't use choke chains to tether him though..I hope.

[spottychick]

LOL No they aren't real bright but even they know not to tether with a choke chain

And I think that's their only problem - they're not cruel people, just not very bright. They feed Buddy reasonably well once a day and when they brought him out they were giving him lots of (awful bright coloured cheap) treats instead of attention. But you could tell he couldnt have cared less about the treats. I have told them to STOP feeding him treats UNLESS he does something for it. And to stop feeding him cheap high preservative/coloured food or treats (I said it's like giving a hypo kid red cordial).

Both chokers are actually a good idea for walking him tho.

Scuse my ignorance but I can't figure out where the members marketplace is. Can you point me in the general direction?

[cavNrott]

LOL No they aren't real bright but even they know not to tether with a choke chain

And I think that's their only problem - they're not cruel people, just not very bright. They feed Buddy reasonably well once a day and when they brought him out they were giving him lots of (awful bright coloured cheap) treats instead of attention. But you could tell he couldnt have cared less about the treats. I have told them to STOP feeding him treats UNLESS he does something for it. And to stop feeding him cheap high preservative/coloured food or treats (I said it's like giving a hypo kid red cordial).

Both chokers are actually a good idea for walking him tho.

Scuse my ignorance but I can't figure out where the members marketplace is. Can you point me in the general direction?

Oh, I think you need to have 150 posts to get into Off Topic and you're not quite there yet. Members Marketplace is a sub forum of Off Topic.

Google Premier Easy Walk Harness and you'll see what they look like.

Edited December 26, 2009 by cavNrott

[spottychick]

Oh okay!!

Actually I hadn't realised I'd made that many posts LOL

[ZEPING]

why dont you use a prong - such a bi9g strong dog will just pull straight through harnesses especially if his pain threshold and excitement are through the roof

if they're such poor owners why is surrender such a bad option - suggest a rescue or someone who will put the time in if the poor thing just spends its life on a chain, which is by the way not legal.

agreeded! "power steering for dogs"

Edited December 29, 2009 by ZEPING

[Casster17]

If they plan on keeping the dog, why not suggest they build him a run...

At least then he won't be tied up and ensure they concrete the floor so he can't dig out...

I would suggest a power collar if you can use one in Tassie, I know they are illegial to use in Vic. Less strain on you and the dog, and harder for the dog to pull threw...

You can order one through here K9 Force

I have seen the easy walker used and it does work...

[Red Fox]

why dont you use a prong - such a bi9g strong dog will just pull straight through harnesses especially if his pain threshold and excitement are through the roof

if they're such poor owners why is surrender such a bad option - suggest a rescue or someone who will put the time in if the poor thing just spends its life on a chain, which is by the way not legal.

agreeded! "power steering for dogs"

Prong collars are fantastic if used correctly Learning how to use one made the world of difference for my dog and I highly recommend them

...HOWEVER, I wouldn't be too keen on putting one in the hands of an owner who sounds none too bright and without professional guidance. Too much room for abuse/mistakes/overcorrection etc -even if it is unintentional.

I think they may be illegal in Tassie though anyway??

[elsa]

This is such a sad story. You should be applauded for the work you are putting in. Another suggestion is the Gentle Leader. Works in a similar way to the Halti, but fits a lot tighter and not only is it difficult for the dog to get off, but because it fits tighter, it is less irritating to the dog, and the dog accepts it easier than the Halti. They both come with DVD's explaining their use. On the prong collar, not sure about this one. Firstly the dog is used to having something dig into his neck, and unless its used correctly it could cause damage. I guess thats the same with any piece of equipment though. Even a flat collar used wrong can cause damage. To be blunt though, even if you got him to a point where he would walk nicely on a lead for you, how easy would he still be to rehome? Its all just so horribly sad and I get so angry with owners who treat dogs like this.

[spottychick]

Thanks for all your responses.

I think the prong collar may be illegal here and in any case, as secretkei says, I wouldn't trust them with it and I have to give them something they can use when I'm not there.

I have a Gentle Leader and an easywalker harness coming soon to try with him but I am also getting a check chain for if all else fails. I'm not fond of check/choke chains but I have seen it work with him in the past AND got the owner to use it properly so I consider it an option in these circumstances. (thanks to cavNrott for generous donations!!)

There is abolsutely no way they will fork out the time and money to set up a proper run - altho I intend to give it another try. I don't hold much hope for it tho.

I actually want to get him off them in the long run - one way or another - and I hope to train him so that he will respond well to others, not just me!

I get angry too elsa - I'm losing my temper with them a bit at the moment which I'd rather not do. But sometimes it's just infuriating to see them so irresponsible towards this lovely dog.

BTW Any brilliant ideas about rehoming also welcome

ANyone in Tassie want a big friendly clumsy lunatic who just needs some training and attention????

[huski]

Spottychick - I know it's a moot point anyway, but I'm quite certain (happy to be corrected) that prongs are only illegal in Victoria.

[spottychick]

You could be right huski. I've not actually looked into it - I've just never seen anyone with one or in any shops here so I was guessing.

But yeah, du'nmatta

[Aidan]

I think the prong collar may be illegal here and in any case, as secretkei says, I wouldn't trust them with it and I have to give them something they can use when I'm not there.

Not sure if they are legal to use or not, but I know for certain that you can't import them into the state.

I have a Gentle Leader and an easywalker harness coming soon to try with him but I am also getting a check chain for if all else fails.

The GL is more likely to be used effectively than the check chain (check chain requires more skill) but my suggestion is to also get a "balance leash" (double-ended leash), the heavier end should be attached to a collar (I usually recommend a martingale for this sort of dog but a check will be fine). That way the GL isn't over-relied upon or abused, it's safer (in case the dog somehow slips a poorly fitted GL), and you can phase out the GL very simply this way (or just have it there for emergencies).

There is abolsutely no way they will fork out the time and money to set up a proper run - altho I intend to give it another try. I don't hold much hope for it tho.

I can send you a cable if you think they will use it? Slightly better than being tied out.

BTW Any brilliant ideas about rehoming also welcome

ANyone in Tassie want a big friendly clumsy lunatic who just needs some training and attention????

I'll ask around, Labs are always popular and I would be willing to work with anyone in Hobart gratis to get them started if you find anyone.

[spottychick]

Aidan! That is very generous of you!

I have a double ended leash I can use but it doesn't have one end heavier than the other. It might do tho.

Good point re effecting the reliance on the gentle leader!

How would the cable work? I mean, at the moment he is attached to a heavy chain (poor guy) that is attached to a deeply buried star picket. Never having seen a cable for tie out - what do you attach a cable to usually and would it attach to a star picket or something similar?

Thank you for the offer and YES I definitely think they would use it because I've told them about cable tie outs (after research on the net) and they were interested but said it was too expensive when they already had the chain.

He doesnt look much like a lab to be honest. I will try and get a pic asap. I'm wondering if I could talk to the Hobart Dogs Home about whether they can help me find someone down there...

Thanks again for the offer to help with the training. That might make the difference for him!

[persephone]

If you are suggesting they build a setup where the dog's chain runs along a length of cable runing parallel to the ground... this needs to carefully thought out!

It needs to be firmly anchored both ends.. BUT also needs to be made/placed in such a way that the dog's chain is NOT long enough to tangle around any trees/posts/fences. The cable also either needs to be at ground level,(using sunken star pickets) or high enough that he dog cannot jump over it and possibly get hooked up!

There also needs to be a swivel at each end of the chain..and it should attach to the cable with a very strong solid metal ring or Ubolt, which will slide smoothly along.

With a dog like this- ANY/ALL attachment points of collars/chains/cables are the weak areas, and may ned welding etc to make sure he is secure/safe.

It is not an easy thing to set up ,if you have no previous experience....

[Aidan]

I have a double ended leash I can use but it doesn't have one end heavier than the other. It might do tho.

No problem at all, it's not usually a difficult thing to TEACH someone to do this but the trick is to keep them doing it consistently. I often think the value in coming to classes is to remind the owner over and over what they need to do consistently before their dog will assume a loose leash without frequent reminders.

The double-ended leash will be fine with a big, strong dog.

How would the cable work? I mean, at the moment he is attached to a heavy chain (poor guy) that is attached to a deeply buried star picket. Never having seen a cable for tie out - what do you attach a cable to usually and would it attach to a star picket or something similar?

Persephone gave a pretty good description and some important caveats. The basic idea is to have the chain running freely along the cable so that he can at least move around beyond the radius set out by the chain. This page gives some tips:

http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Trolley.htm

Shade, shelter and access to water are obviously very important, especially with the weather we're having at the moment.

The cable I have is very strong with good strong crimps at either end, not sure how long it is though. About 5m I guess. I've got stoppers and shackles. Have they got a tree or suitable post? What have we got to work with?

He doesnt look much like a lab to be honest. I will try and get a pic asap. I'm wondering if I could talk to the Hobart Dogs Home about whether they can help me find someone down there...

I haven't been to the Dog's Home for a while, but one of the ladies there is involved with Mastiffs and has an English Mastiff that was rescued from a dog fighting ring. No doubt she would know people with a soft spot for big slobber gutses.

[spottychick]

Persephone gave a pretty good description and some important caveats. The basic idea is to have the chain running freely along the cable so that he can at least move around beyond the radius set out by the chain. This page gives some tips:

http://www.unchainyourdog.org/Trolley.htm

Shade, shelter and access to water are obviously very important, especially with the weather we're having at the moment.

thanks to both you and Persephone for that! I've never had to tie up any dog so it's unfamiliar territory for me. This is great info. I'll check out that site!

They have got him in a spot with lots of trees around him which is the good thing and he has shelter. Access to water is iffy but I checked just a few minutes ago and he had some.

The cable I have is very strong with good strong crimps at either end, not sure how long it is though. About 5m I guess. I've got stoppers and shackles. Have they got a tree or suitable post? What have we got to work with?

I can't give you a lot of details as it's pretty junky out there and I can't stand spending any more time there than necessary - I hate seeing him in there. But I'll try and get a better look when the weather's a bit cooler. But think country folk with lots and lots of junk that "might come in useful some day" and you get the idea - they would have lots of posts, pickets, fencing (chicken wire etc), general metal things and so on.

Anyway - I'll get more details as soon as I can.

I haven't been to the Dog's Home for a while, but one of the ladies there is involved with Mastiffs and has an English Mastiff that was rescued from a dog fighting ring. No doubt she would know people with a soft spot for big slobber gutses.

Oh that's great! I'll definitely call them when everything's open again and chat with them about him. He needs a home that is experienced with dogs like him. I am sure Buddy's owner would give Buddy up immediately if I could find a good home for him - she just wont give him to the RSPCA because she's sure they'd put him to sleep. She is a funny mix of stuff really. I think she cares about him, but she's just bone lazy and possibly has some sort of disability - along the lines of ADD.

[Gspsplease]

Rather than a double ended lead, which many people find hard to manage (and end up pulling on the wrong end), our club uses connectors which have a trojan clip on one end and a closed ring on the other with about 10-12cms of webbing in between. The trojan clip attaches to the collar and the closed ring is held by the lead clip along with the gentle leader or harness ring. The result is that if a dog manages to pull out of a harness or head halter etc, there is still the connector attached to the dog's collar and lead. These connectors are available from Blackdog or Jenny Ireland for about $8. We never sell a head halter or front fastening harness without a connector.

[Erny]

Spottychick - I know it's a moot point anyway, but I'm quite certain (happy to be corrected) that prongs are only illegal in Victoria.

Yes - that's right. Only illegal for use in Victoria.

But I agree with Persephone that I wouldn't like to put a PPCollar in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it. Mind you, I wouldn't like to put a Head Collar in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use that, either.

[RL1]

why dont you use a prong - such a bi9g strong dog will just pull straight through harnesses especially if his pain threshold and excitement are through the roof

A prong collar is the only thing that gave me any control over my big bad boy. I use it with a martingale

and a good quality leather leash. All bought from K9 Force. None of this has broken, which was always my fear with

everything else i tried.

I also have plenty of choke chains i don't need if the OP wants one.

[huski]

Spottychick - I know it's a moot point anyway, but I'm quite certain (happy to be corrected) that prongs are only illegal in Victoria.

Yes - that's right. Only illegal for use in Victoria.

But I agree with Persephone that I wouldn't like to put a PPCollar in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use it. Mind you, I wouldn't like to put a Head Collar in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use that, either.

Totally agree, Erny! I hate to think that any tool is in the hands of someone who is likely to use it incorrectly.