dar1stheory Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Hey guys, Just wanted to share our first success in treadmill training our boxer, inspired by Cesar we managed to get him comfortable quickly using a few treats and a lot of praise... We did a couple minutes of walking the first time, then a couple of minutes walking with a little run at the end the second time, and this was our third attempt! Hope to get him running without a lead, anyone else been able to achieve this? I've heard rumours of a dog in a fire station somewhere that will actually go the treadmill and bark to have it turned on, and then runs himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) Treadmill exercise can be great and very handy - for those times when for when a dog needs a bit more cardio exercise than regular play, training, and walking can do. They'd need to concentrate too, so there's a bit of mental exercise going on as well. Well done for starting off gradually and keeping it nice and positive . How old is the dog in the video clip, D1T? ETA: One of the things that partly worries me is the part of the treadmill at the sides, where the rubber ends and the edge starts. Is it possible that a dog's toe could get caught there? It happens on escalators in shopping centres, with kids feet/hands, although I can't imagine how it quite occurs because the gap is so small. But I guess once something is caught there it gets dragged in further. I'd like to see side guards on treadmills for dogs, so this cannot happen. Edited December 26, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) Yeah Molly will run off lead, she also wont let humans go on the treadmill without joining in! Gives me a good catwalk strut as with her beside me I have to do the one foot in front of the other walk! She loves it Just dont do too much too young or you can damage their growth plates, 12 months is probably the youngest you want to be actually running them on it He is very cute! Erny, Ive never had a prob with the sides, I dont think they could really get caught on it, but I never run her unsupervised either Edited December 26, 2009 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dar1stheory Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 How old is the dog in the video clip, D1T?ETA: One of the things that partly worries me is the part of the treadmill at the sides, where the rubber ends and the edge starts. Is it possible that a dog's toe could get caught there? It happens on escalators in shopping centres, with kids feet/hands, although I can't imagine how it quite occurs because the gap is so small. But I guess once something is caught there it gets dragged in further. I'd like to see side guards on treadmills for dogs, so this cannot happen. He's 6 months, and 2 weeks! Well, I don't know about other treadmills, but ours seems quite safe? There is a gap of about 20mm between the edge of the mat and the side rails, and the side rails are only raised about 8 - 10mm from the "floor" and have rounded edges, it would extremely difficult to get a toe or nail stuck, as the feet are coming from above... You would struggle to squeeze a toe in from the side if you actually tried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Well done A few months ago I taught one of my Sibes to go on the treadmill, she took to it like a duck to water. Within 2 short sessions, she was happily jogging along and seems to really enjoy it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dar1stheory Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 Yeah Molly will run off lead, she also wont let humans go on the treadmill without joining in! Gives me a good catwalk strut as with her beside me I have to do the one foot in front of the other walk! She loves itJust dont do too much too young or you can damage their growth plates, 12 months is probably the youngest you want to be actually running them on it He is very cute! Erny, Ive never had a prob with the sides, I dont think they could really get caught on it, but I never run her unsupervised either That's cool, we're trying to ensure that Cassius recognises that we need to take turns at our house... Running together would end in tears I'm sure of it! lol I've heard a few people mention limiting exercise for pups to protect the growth plates, but seriously? I can understand jumping, but not running them? All he wants to do is run, and surely as nature intended, he would have had to run to survive? I can appreciate keeping things at a reasonable level, but he runs much faster than this in play, so what harm could it do at this "leisurely" pace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) My boy fractured all the sesamoids in his paw at 4 months from just puppy running around, so personally I wouldnt risk it, but its what you are comfortable with, as you're the one in control I did alot of swimming after he healed up rather than running exercise until he was past the 12 monthish stage Running is a high impact exercise Better to be on the wary side when they are little (even when they dont look so little!!!) Edited December 26, 2009 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 I agree with SM. I'd do as little as I needed to get pup habituated to the treadmill, but only for that reason. Not as a form of exercise. I'd leave that until pup was older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dar1stheory Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) My boy fractured all the sesamoids in his paw at 4 months from just puppy running around, so personally I wouldnt risk it, but its what you are comfortable with, as you're the one in controlI did alot of swimming after he healed up rather than running exercise until he was past the 12 monthish stage Running is a high impact exercise Oh wow, that sounds rough... But then a super fit mate of mine fractured a bone in his foot getting out of bed stepping on a remote control that rolled his foot or something... Bad things happen... Well I'll definately keep things at a low level (as in the fast paced walk or trot for a few minutes), he doesn't need to break any records (or bones), but I hear more about the need to exercise and tire him out than I do about avoiding it... Thanks for the warning though... Edited December 26, 2009 by dar1stheory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 Awesome way to wear him out, teach him fun tricks! Sounds stupid but they use so much brain power they end up buggered Sesamoids are an ongoing impact injury, but I get what you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 (edited) Well I'll definately keep things at a low level (as in the fast paced walk or trot for a few minutes), he doesn't need to break any records (or bones), but I hear more about the need to exercise and tire him out than I do about avoiding it... Thanks for the warning though... I think it is more about the soft plates in the bones. These don't harden until growing has stopped. Edited December 26, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 OK - I preface this with a slight warning. This is not meant to be a downer post but simply the truth - if you don't want that then don't read any further. I see far too often the permanent damage and lifetime of grief that dogs suffer from injuries at a young age to not take this seriously. As I said don't read any further if you don't want the ugly worrying truth. On a positive - you have certainly proven that he is a very clever little boy who can learn quickly just direct that ability into the right direction. You are dealing with a med/large breed and heavy boned breed - these breed types (not just your breed) suffer a great deal with joint and bone diseases, bone growth diseases (pano) and they can have lifetime consequences and sometime deadly consequences (cancer). We do treadmill our dogs - babies only get to play over it when its not on and are crated next to it on with older dog or me working to get used to it being on. I would never high impact exercise a dog until minimum of 12 months of age - with our breed I don't until 18 months and that still depends on the dog themselves, they are still forming and growing until 3 years of age technically. My young boy is now 2 yrs and he will just now start treadmill and biking. Our puppies only ever 'self exercise' - run and play until they are tired, walk on lead until they are tired, learn obedience, learn tracking basics until they are tired etc etc - they dictate. Playing games and teaching him obedience "tricks" will tire him out more than being on a treadmill and will be far more beneficial in the long run to both you and him. Growth plates and feet bones are actually quite fragile in growth stages and I wouldn't be risking my puppy. Once these joints or bones are injured you have a lifetime of grief to deal with (or the dog does anyway) - also sadly with inflamation of joints and bones you have oxidation take place which causes alot of damage and even more devastatingly can lead to permanent bone damage or even cancer growth. All I can say is please don't take this lightly - your puppy's full life is ahead of him and I am sure that you, just as we all want them to be as healthy and happy for as long as is possible throughout that life. Let him be a baby - love him and play with him now - there is plenty of time to push him later when he has grown up. Contact his breeder and speak to them about this if you want reassurance on what the right thing to do is. Most of all enjoy your 'baby puppy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dar1stheory Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 Firstly, thank you for a tactful and well explained response Bisart Dobes... I would like to query a couple of things with you though... I would never high impact exercise a dog until minimum of 12 months of age - with our breed I don't until 18 months and that still depends on the dog themselves, they are still forming and growing until 3 years of age technically. My young boy is now 2 yrs and he will just now start treadmill and biking. Ok, could you please clarify your definition of "high impact exercise." Because I simply cannot see how 4 minutes of what I would consider nothing more than fast paced walking, could pose such a health risk to an otherwise healthy dog? Our puppies only ever 'self exercise' - run and play until they are tired, walk on lead until they are tired, learn obedience, learn tracking basics until they are tired etc etc - they dictate. Playing games and teaching him obedience "tricks" will tire him out more than being on a treadmill and will be far more beneficial in the long run to both you and him. On the issue of "self-exercise", again I simply don't understand the fear of being responsible for creating an injury or illness as a result of walking on a flat, controlled moving surface, when the dog in question will happily spend between 5 and 10 minutes at a time sprinting* (for lack of a better word) around the yard, jumping, changing direction quickly etc... If there is a playmate to frolic with (and there usually isn't), he spends hours over the day playing, by which I mean running, and as a result is tired out at the end of the day... So if I am to base my estimation of when he would tire, and when he would dictate his limit, based on these observations, I can confidently say I've barely scratched the surface by putting him on a treadmill for 4 minutes at 5kph... I am interested though in what obedience tricks you're referring to that would tire him out more than this though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 High impact exercise in my opinion is any on hard surface - footpath, road, concrete run, paved area, treadmill etc etc - high impact on growing, forming bones and joints. 5 to 10 minutes sprinting or playing on grass in entirely different to being on a treadmill. Playing/running on grass puppies will run, jump, roll, play bounce, pull tugs or toys from each other etc etc - this form on exercise is the best way to grow and condition dogs for the entirety of their lives. Why - because it uses all the muscles and bones in their body naturally and it conditions them all at the same time. A dog on a treadmill will work certain muscles and work with certain bones. 10 minutes on a treadmill is the equivilant to about 30 minutes free running flat out. Even when a fit adult dog is doing conditioning work in an aqua treadmill we don't work them for more than 20 minutes and an aqua treadmill puts less pressure on bones and joints due to the water level. Treadmills offer a good way to exercise a dog or condition a dog for certain things and as I said I do have a treadmill and I do use it but it is a very small part of their conditioning program. A dog which is growing and forming bone will be put under stress in the soft bone areas and growing areas when working on a treadmill because it is the same as working a young dog on the road beside a bike - it is hard impact, pounding exercise. At the end of the day he is your dog and you will do what you feel is right for yourself and for him - it is ultimately your choice. Obedience tricks - well you have shown he is very clever and picks up things quickly so use that to your advantage - there are heaps of books on games to play with your puppy that help them learn to learn. Check Susan Clothiers (think I spelt that right) website - from memory I bought a few when I did her seminar years ago and amazon have a great selection. And then ofcourse there are normal obedience exercises which make them use their brains, hide things or someone and teach him to find them. Hope this answered your questions ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dar1stheory Posted December 27, 2009 Author Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hope this answered your questions ? Thanks BD, very informative! And I truly appreciate you taking the time to provide your opinions and experiences! Sorry if I just came across as crazy argumentative, it's just that I frequent another forum for reptiles, and pretty well daily there is a hotly contested opinion thread, where somebody knows better than the next, eg. snakes do like to be handled VS snakes tolerate being handled... What makes the difference is the willingness of people like yourself to take the time to back opinions with some substance, so thank you for that... We've decided not to run him on the treadmill, but we will pop him on now and then for a short low speed walk just for the familiarity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Good, I am glad - actually you made me cry with relief - I felt as if he were one of our babies gone to his new home. When you see as many dogs as I do suffering from skeletal issues in their lives it becomes an emotional issue I guess - last week someone bought one of the wheelchairs for there dog who can no longer walk as his rear legs don't work due to spinal degeneration - to see the look of joy on his face as he was able to 'walk' around again was just incredible - he was so happy. I don't think I will ever forget just his total look of pleasure and joy - for the first time in that whole week of physio he was happy. Prevention is always better than cure and the dogs wellbeing and fullness of life is of the highest priority. I guess I am lucky - it makes me cherish my dogs every day. You (from 'you' I mean all of us) can learn alot from these forums if you just stop, read and absorb - there are alot of experienced people on this forum and it can be a valuable resource. I learnt a long time ago to read posts and then log out to have a think about it - go make a coffee and then come back to it if it is really something which I can offer help with - it helps me keep the emotional out of it I hope. The day I stop learning will be the day I die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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