Stafford Breeders

[WreckitWhippet]

I don't know what the attraction is with the blue staffys. They are not pretty to look at. If I was getting one I would have a colour preference as well. It would be black. Would I pay extra for colour? no.

edit: crikey 71 puppy notices on DoL That's insane.

That's the only good colour nice choice

[casowner]

On average how many pups does a stafford have in a litter?

For arguments sake say 6 @ $2500 at least 3 litters in 2 years = 18 pups @ $2500.

Income for the 2 years = $45000.00 This is why they breed so many blue staffords I would say

What does the breed benefit out of this = NOTHING, if they are not breeding correct dogs to start with.

This is why I don't breed, it would break my heart to see my chosen breed go down this path

Just found this ad on another website

Purebred Staffy Pups with Blue bloodlines for Sale Price: $650

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Purebred English Staffy pups for sale

The blue female is of course sold, I bet not for the $650

Edited December 26, 2009 by casowner

[Ozstar]

Just found this ad on another website

Purebred Staffy Pups with Blue bloodlines for Sale Price: $650

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Purebred English Staffy pups for sale

The blue female is of course sold, I bet not for the $650

They would not be registered, and run from anyone who says "English"

Leanne

[casowner]

Just found this ad on another website

Purebred Staffy Pups with Blue bloodlines for Sale Price: $650

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Purebred English Staffy pups for sale

The blue female is of course sold, I bet not for the $650

They would not be registered, and run from anyone who says "English"

Leanne

I would have ran from the ad in any case due to the wording as I have learnt through DOL that they are SBT not English staffies, there was no where in the ad saying they were registered either, I was being a tad sarcastic about them, being so "cheap" with blue bloodlines

[iffykharma]

Where do the ANKC and state Canine Councils stand on all of this? I'm not a breeder or involved with any breed in particular, but it seems to me that they must take responsibility for these breeding and sale practices (and to some extent issues like bsl with indiscriminate breeding and the sale of pups to inappropriate owners leading to tragic newspaper headlines). I'm not underestimating the contribution that unregistered/backyard breeders make to the problem, or the need for local government to properly enforce animal management regulations, or the fact that once they get a dog, owners must raise them properly.

From what I understand of the ANKC Code of Ethics, the breeding practices described here would not be consistent with the code. And from reading posts here on DOL, it seems Canine Councils do little to ensure registered breeders are in fact following the code, giving the average punter out there looking for a dog a bum steer and few places to go to get proper advice and a descent puppy.

Is there any way that registered breeders, or anyone else for that matter, can take action to make the Canine Councils more proactive and responsive? Is this even something that you think would make a difference?

[ellz]

This came up in another thread recently, and a breeder argued (convincingly IMO) that they sell many of their pups for below cost, and recoup some of the money on the pups that are more popular (whether it be colour, coat etc). If this is the case then I dont see a problem.

It's more in the ethics. Blues can (and do) pop up in the best of families. BUT the reputable and responsible breeder treats them like the vermin that they are and deals with them accordingly by a) identifying where they came from and trying NOT to do it again OR b) by indentifying where they came from and perhaps trying to do it better but most importantly c) by not encouraging shonky practitioners who see $$$ signs and want to capitalise on the stupidity of the Joe Q's who think they might be able to make a quick buck from something that is not so much rare as reviled.

[WoofnHoof]

I see it as similar to the dilutes in horses, a lot of people will charge more because it's a dilute and the cost isn't consistent with the quality of the animal, but there are people trying to improve the quality of the dilutes and in some breeds they are becoming extremely competitive. It isn't easy I am trying to breed a nice dilute for myself because I like the colour I know the quality isn't going to be world-beating but I also chose the stallion carefully so that the progeny wont be crap even if it isn't a dilute. Breeding for colour isn't necessarily bad some people like certain colours but you need to try and bring the quality in as well so that the quality of the dilutes comes up as well. It is difficult when the dilutes are regarded as inferior simply because they haven't been bred for previously and so of course you aren't starting with world-beating stock you have to try and improve what you have.

I think it is a fact of life that people will pay more for the colour they prefer and colour preferences will always change this happens in the ring as well, when I got my chestnut with bling they were all the rage then when I started showing it was all about the browns and blacks

[ellz]

Actually, I don't agree. There are MANY quality dilutes around which are readily appreciated even if people don't particularly like dilutes.

There are however NO blue Staffords that I could honestly look at and say that I would like to own it, or would admit to having bred it.

There are also health issues that can be attribute to the blue genes.

Editing to add: There are actually very FEW reputable, responsible Stafford breeders who are trying to breed quality blues. Simply because under the breed standard, they don't fit. The standard calls for black pigment. Blue Staffords CANNOT have black pigment. Simple as that.

Anybody making a practice of breeding blue isn't in it to improve the quality, they are in it for the $$$$$.

And likewise with the likening of breeding Staffords to other coloured dogs in various breeds, most other breed standards actually make allowances for dilutes and recessives by offering alternative pigmentation colours, the American Cocker is one of these, but the Stafford DOES NOT!!

Edited December 27, 2009 by ellz

[Clyde]

BUT the reputable and responsible breeder treats them like the vermin that they are and deals with them accordingly

I'm not a blue fan myself (with any breed), but I think calling them 'vermin' is a bit harsh, especially when quite a few people on here have them as loving companions.

[WoofnHoof]

I know there are plenty in the arabs and QHs but it's taking a bit longer in the warmbloods, that's the impression I'm getting anyway. But yeah if there are associated health problems in the staffords then it's a different issue than just colour preference.

[ellz]

BUT the reputable and responsible breeder treats them like the vermin that they are and deals with them accordingly

I'm not a blue fan myself (with any breed), but I think calling them 'vermin' is a bit harsh, especially when quite a few people on here have them as loving companions.

I am aware that there are many sweet dogs that are an unfortunate colour, but from a BREEDING and EXHIBITING point of view, they ARE vermin. And I don't state that they don't make good pets, simply that they should NOT be bred from with such gay abandon and that anybody who is doing so is not doing so for the right reasons.

[casowner]

Colour does cloud peoples judgement, last week I was all set to buy a dilute pinto filly and to be honest didn't even look at her conformation until other DOLers pointed it out. I was prepared to pay more for her plus $1000 transport just because of her colour. If people want something many times they are like me in that instance they don't look at what they are actually buying, I have a wonderfully put together stallion that I have waited over 10 years to breed with and I was going to get a badly conformed mare just because of colour The word colour blind does have meaning. I have seen the light and my rationality and responsibilty has been put firmly back in place.

[Snout Girl]

I've been reading this topic with interest, as I love staffordshire bull terriers and would like to own one day.

also, we own a blue merle bc.

we had to pay $250 extra as she was blue merle. we thought that was normal practice at the time.

our pug also came with main register papers, as did the whole litter. at the time we didnt realise the significance but after being educated we do now.

and the breeder knew we only wanted a pet, not a dog for showing or breeding.

strange.

[ellz]

I've been reading this topic with interest, as I love staffordshire bull terriers and would like to own one day.

also, we own a blue merle bc.

we had to pay $250 extra as she was blue merle. we thought that was normal practice at the time.

our pug also came with main register papers, as did the whole litter. at the time we didnt realise the significance but after being educated we do now.

and the breeder knew we only wanted a pet, not a dog for showing or breeding.

strange.

Sadly, not at all strange. All too common.

[RL1]

I'm not a blue fan myself (with any breed), but I think calling them 'vermin' is a bit harsh, especially when quite a few people on here have them as loving companions.

x2

[Eileen]

BUT the reputable and responsible breeder treats them like the vermin that they are and deals with them accordingly

I'm not a blue fan myself (with any breed), but I think calling them 'vermin' is a bit harsh, especially when quite a few people on here have them as loving companions.

Thanks Clyde - Dolly isn't vermin, she's a really lovely little dog

That being said, I do believe the Canine Council ought to do something about it. When you research buying your purebred stafford, you don't expect to be told 6 months down the track that despite being a purebred dog on limited papers with a pedigree that was priced like a normal dog, whose parents have won show prizes, from a breeder who has bred many australian champions, your dog is still somehow deficient and not a "real" stafford. It's not very fair on puppy buyers, is it?

[Eileen]

I know there are plenty in the arabs and QHs but it's taking a bit longer in the warmbloods, that's the impression I'm getting anyway. But yeah if there are associated health problems in the staffords then it's a different issue than just colour preference.

Our blue girl has no health issues?

[WoofnHoof]

There are also health issues that can be attribute to the blue genes.

I know there are plenty in the arabs and QHs but it's taking a bit longer in the warmbloods, that's the impression I'm getting anyway. But yeah if there are associated health problems in the staffords then it's a different issue than just colour preference.

Our blue girl has no health issues?

I don't know Eileen I was just responding to the above quote, I'm glad your girl doesn't have any issues

[SpikesPuppy]

Is there any reason why blue is an accepted color in the Stafford standard, without allowing for the diluted pigmentation which comes with it? Why not either remove blue from the acceptable color list or allow for the diluted pigmentation?? It's very confusing...

[WreckitWhippet]

Is there any reason why blue is an accepted color in the Stafford standard, without allowing for the diluted pigmentation which comes with it? Why not either remove blue from the acceptable color list or allow for the diluted pigmentation?? It's very confusing...

I personally think they should either write them into the standard so that they can be judged without contradiction, or write them out all together. My preference being for the later and include them along with the livers and the B & T's.

The BSE basically states that to show, breed or award a prize to those colours ( b & T or liver ), serves only to encourage them , where infact they should be ostracised, as when bred with they will spread like a germ.