Grover Is Really Sick - Another Change

[3shepherds]

I don't really have much advice to offer but I do agree with the treated pine theory.

What a roller coaster - pleased he now seems to be on the mend

[SwaY]

CCA is not widely used any more, they now use ACQ

My hubby is a chemical treatment officer and has been treating timber for 8+ years

He is still alive

ETA

CCA - Chromated Copper Arsenate (H1 - H5)

ACQ - Ammoniacal Copper Quaternary (H1 - H5) It is considered a very safe and very effective product with no risk to human

Edited January 1, 2010 by SwaY

[Muttaburra]

Sometimes it's just best to do what works and work out why later, it might even remain a mystery.

The suggestion of sending him on a short sabbatical might be a good idea if he doesn't pick up.

Did he have all the previous symptoms last night, or was just hunched over after his chook carcasses? Any possibilty it was a stomach ache?

Anyway glad he is a bit better this morning.

Perhaps a cooked BBQ chicken might be more enticing - just the flesh of course, peel off the fatty skin. Then you could gradually add your own home-cooked chicken stew in subsequent feeds.

I remember nursing my cat back to health after he had been beaten near to death by a viscous (semi) feral cat. After some time trying to get him to eat, I was opening a tin of smoked oysters for my own consumption, and his head popped up and he looked so interested I gave him a couple - not the healthiest choice I know, perhaps the zinc helped - but did get him slowly back onto food after that.

So something that has a zingy aroma but is bland enough for a tender stomach, even a bit of beef stock or bovral on the food, just enough to trigger interest.

[Muttaburra]

CCA is not widely used any more, they now use ACQ

My hubby is a chemical treatment officer and has been treating timber for 8+ years

He is still alive

It could have been an older piece of wood?

In Australia, the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority (APVMA[3]) restricted the use of CCA preservative for treatment of timber used in certain applications from March 2006. CCA may no longer be used to treat wood used in 'intimate human contact' applications such as children's play equipment, furniture, residential decking and handrailing. Use for low contact residential, commercial and industrial applications remains unrestricted, as does its use in all other situations. The APVMA decision to restrict the use of CCA in Australia was a precautionary measure, even though the report[4] found no evidence that demonstrated CCA treated timber posed unreasonable risks to humans in normal use. Similarly to the US EPA, the APVMA did not recommend dismantling or removal of existing CCA treated wood structures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_preserva...enate_.28CCA.29

http://agencysearch.australia.gov.au/searc...client=443b4295

Edited January 1, 2010 by Muttaburra

[SwaY]

CCA is not widely used any more, they now use ACQ

My hubby is a chemical treatment officer and has been treating timber for 8+ years

He is still alive

It could have been an older piece of wood?

It could have been.

Wonder if it has bite marks chunks taken out of it?

[Muttaburra]

It could have been.

Wonder if it has bite marks chunks taken out of it?

As far as I know, Tris reports their was none, however Grover might have been licking it, or it could be absorbed through the paws or skin?

[SwaY]

ETA - just thought - Daphne is in season and has been since Christmas Day when he first got sick? Could he possibly be allergic to Daphne?????

Is it possible he is just worked up about her.

Huffing and puffing exhausting himself?

My dog does that sulks, huffs and puffs, looks like death warmed up, loses weight, has no interest.

[SwaY]

It could have been.

Wonder if it has bite marks chunks taken out of it?

As far as I know, Tris reports their was none, however Grover might have been licking it, or it could be absorbed through the paws or skin?

I just asked hubby, he said he would have to have spent a hell of a lot of time on it if that was the case.

He doubts it's the wood.

[Muttaburra]

Well I wouldn't discount it, perhaps the VMA folks would be worth contacting to see what they say.

Anyway is an easy problem to eliminate (if it is a problem), by simply removing the plywood, especially if it contains formaldehyde.

Daphne on heat would not really explain Grover's collapse, blood in urine, rash etc., if so then the Vets would be full of dogs in critical condition.

[SwaY]

I know of many dogs who has collapsed due to being over worked because of a bitch in season.

They exhaust themselfs far to must and the body just shuts down.

Does not explain the other things thou.

[Mags]

Glad to hear he is so much better this morning. I do hope it is the ply that was causing the problem - it may have been something as simple as the glue that held it together outgassing particularly if it had been wet. What type of ply was it?

Other things to check - water supply is your and the vets water supply the same, food - are you feeding the same know you fed chicken carcase but are you feeding the same brand of commercial food and if you are is it the same batch. PFC's can change ingredients without having to change labeling if its a supply issue.

And given it is an allergic reaction the fact it is not affecting anyone else in the house is irrelevant.

We have a cat that is allergic to many things - and over time her allergies have changed so there is no guarantee that what she can eat today she will be able to eat tomorrow. We also found out the hard way - very sick cat with major respiratory issues - that she was allergic to the wood dust in the cat litter we were trialling. She was not using the litter and in fact was not even close to it but it just being in the house was enough. We had no clue what was going on when she first collapsed we got her stable and all seemed well and then she went down hill again. The litter was not the first thing we thought of as it had been in the house for weeks prior to her first becoming ill.

Fingers crossed for continued improvement.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Mags

[Bilbo Baggins]

All the things I was going to suggest have been suggested.

Hope Grover continues to improve.

[Trisven13]

CCA is not widely used any more, they now use ACQ

My hubby is a chemical treatment officer and has been treating timber for 8+ years

He is still alive

It could have been an older piece of wood?

It could have been.

Wonder if it has bite marks chunks taken out of it?

No, no bite marks. The only possible cause that I could think of was that when he eats his chicken carcasses etc he always pulls them out of the bowl and eats them directly off the ply. Originally when we fixed his crate to stop him walking it around at night we nailed the C-crate using U-shaped nails to the ply but that didn't work as the nails pulled out as he leaned on the edges. We should have left it but we figured it wouldn't do any harm and would protect the new floor.

ETA - just thought - Daphne is in season and has been since Christmas Day when he first got sick? Could he possibly be allergic to Daphne?????

Is it possible he is just worked up about her.

Huffing and puffing exhausting himself?

My dog does that sulks, huffs and puffs, looks like death warmed up, loses weight, has no interest.

When we were walking him on Christmas Day he showed absolutely no interest in her - that was the first day he was sick AND the first day she came into season. This morning has been the first time he has shown interest in her and she is day 7. Like you say though it doesn't explain the heart-rate, dark urine and high temperature.

I think, if he continues to improve, we're just going to have to cope with not knowing. Since we moved him away from the ply he hasn't made the horrific coughing/vomitting/growling noise that he was making whenever we touched him last night and the day before. Who knows????

[persephone]

*fingers crossed*

little bits of improvement are GOOD!

[OSoSwift]

Hope he continues getting better and staying better. Such a worrying time for you all.

Sending hugs to a big boy from our little Whippets

[BittyMooPeeb]

Hi Trish, I just tried to PM but your inbox is full, so will post instead

Hi Trish,

I have been following Grovers illness withmy heart in my mouth. Gawd it must be awful not knowing what is going on. Best wishes to you, Steve and Grover - we have fingers and paws crossed for you.

Re the relapses, when you first mentioned them I thought similar to Poodlefan, that he is going downhill a bit from being taken off the drip, and also using extra energy when he gets home. He might not realise he is overdoing it until he feels unwell again.

With the cause, is it possible he injested/came into contact with something slow acting (so the original contact might have been 2-3 weeks ago)? I dont know much about this, but do recall that poisons like ratsac can take several weeks to show symptoms. I'm not saying he ate ratsac, just wondering if there are other slow acting things, so the contact he had might not be in the time frame you are looking at.

Gail

[anniek]

Daphne on heat would not really explain Grover's collapse, blood in urine, rash etc., if so then the Vets would be full of dogs in critical condition.

There are three types of acidosis - acute acidosis can be caused by over excitement, barking and panting, general huffing and puffing especially if in hot or humid conditions (quite possible if he is affected by Daphne on heat).

Acidosis isn't always to do with over exersion in a physical excercise sense. This in itself could lead to loss of the electrolytes that buffer (neutralise) lactic acid - which would explain colapse, blood in urine etc.

Edited January 1, 2010 by anniek

[Longclaw]

Daphne on heat would not really explain Grover's collapse, blood in urine, rash etc., if so then the Vets would be full of dogs in critical condition.

There are three types of acidosis - acute acidosis can be caused by over excitement, barking and panting, general huffing and puffing especially if in hot or humid conditions (quite possible if he is affected by Daphne on heat).

Acidosis isn't always to do with over exersion in a physical excercise sense. This in itself could lead to loss of the electrolytes that buffer (neutralise) lactic acid - which would explain colapse, blood in urine etc.

That's interesting anniek, thanks for that. Could acidosis cause a white cell count of 0.4?

[persephone]

I didn't think of acidosis!

[anniek]

Daphne on heat would not really explain Grover's collapse, blood in urine, rash etc., if so then the Vets would be full of dogs in critical condition.

There are three types of acidosis - acute acidosis can be caused by over excitement, barking and panting, general huffing and puffing especially if in hot or humid conditions (quite possible if he is affected by Daphne on heat).

Acidosis isn't always to do with over exersion in a physical excercise sense. This in itself could lead to loss of the electrolytes that buffer (neutralise) lactic acid - which would explain colapse, blood in urine etc.

That's interesting anniek, thanks for that. Could acidosis cause a white cell count of 0.4?

Don't know - was the 0.4 count the Phagocytes or Lymphocytes?

ETA low white cell counts "generally" indicate viral infections, bone marrow abnormalities or overwhelming infections and blood poisoning. In this situation, the white blood cells are concentrated in the area of infection and are not circulating in the blood, resulting in a low count.

But without seeing all blood values I don't know.

I'm no expert, but I know someone who is

Edited January 1, 2010 by anniek