Dogs And Depression

[Elfin]

Following a discussion at work today, do dogs suffer depression after an event such as loss of a limb or sudden vision loss?

What role does the owner's attitude toward the dog play in the mental well-being following the loss of a limb or sudden vision loss?

Would love to hear DOLers thoughts.

[Asari]

I think they can i had a dog 15 years ago that lost a limb and for 3 weeks he went through what i and the vet would call depression. It left me wondering if i had done the right thing but he snapped out of it and never looked back. We also had billy watch jemma get through a hedge and hit by a car she didnt make it and for 2 weeks everyday all day he layed were she got through he didnt eat much , he was a very sad dog the other two that didnt see it were fine and maya being her sister didnt even notice that she was gone. So i think they can and do go through sad moments that we can call depression.

[Elfin]

I think they can i had a dog 15 years ago that lost a limb and for 3 weeks he went through what i and the vet would call depression. It left me wondering if i had done the right thing but he snapped out of it and never looked back.

This is part of what we were discussing today. Is the initial "depression" period due to psychological issues, pain, or owner attitude toward the dog, or a combination of all of these, do you think?

[poodlefan]

I don't think they do wrt injuries (outside of pain issues) and that relates to their status as predators.

One of mine spent a couple of weeks with his foot in a boot due to badly cut pad. He limped around well enough and when speed was required he picked up the leg and ran on three. He didn't seem to dwell on it.

For a predator, it's keep going or die. For prey species, serious injury seems to make them give up. I've had a horse with serious leg injuries that I knew was making a recovery when he became his usual feisty self. Prior to that he moped.

I do believe dogs (and other animals ) experience loss though.

[Asari]

I think they can i had a dog 15 years ago that lost a limb and for 3 weeks he went through what i and the vet would call depression. It left me wondering if i had done the right thing but he snapped out of it and never looked back.

This is part of what we were discussing today. Is the initial "depression" period due to psychological issues, pain, or owner attitude toward the dog, or a combination of all of these, do you think?

We tryed to act very nomal around him and kept asking him to get out of bed and got the kids to play there games in front of him and just talk to include him. But once he decided to get up and start moving it only took 3 days and he was back to his own self and you wouldnt have known by the wayhe got around that he only had 3 legs infact he still outran the others

[WoofnHoof]

I don't think animals perceive things like this the way we do, their ability to cope with these things is more directly related to how significantly it impacts them in the present, as they get used to the change in circumstances they do as best they can with what they have. Humans tend to attatch more meaning to things than animals do, a lost leg to a human can mean a lot of things (eg sense of self, the perception of what the future will be like, the effect of how others perceive them and so on) whereas to a dog it just means it has to find a way of getting around on 3 legs. The dog doesn't think of how difficult things will be in the future, or how much easier things were in the past, they just think of the best way to do something in the now. While they are attempting to adjust it can be hard on them but once they have a solution/improvement they seem quite happy.

[sparkycat]

Our deerhound lost a limb to bone cancer and he was really sad for a couple of days post op until I put one of my sons t-shirts on him and then he cheered up no end.

He wore that t-shirt for 6 months until we had to PTS. I think the feel of the t-shirt somehow made up for the loss of his leg.

[Elfin]

I think they can i had a dog 15 years ago that lost a limb and for 3 weeks he went through what i and the vet would call depression. It left me wondering if i had done the right thing but he snapped out of it and never looked back.

This is part of what we were discussing today. Is the initial "depression" period due to psychological issues, pain, or owner attitude toward the dog, or a combination of all of these, do you think?

We tryed to act very nomal around him and kept asking him to get out of bed and got the kids to play there games in front of him and just talk to include him. But once he decided to get up and start moving it only took 3 days and he was back to his own self and you wouldnt have known by the wayhe got around that he only had 3 legs infact he still outran the others

So in your case, you had a positive attitude toward him. Do you feel that made a difference to his attitude?

Do you feel that his initial "depression" could have been linked to pain?

[Elfin]

Our deerhound lost a limb to bone cancer and he was really sad for a couple of days post op until I put one of my sons t-shirts on him and then he cheered up no end.

He wore that t-shirt for 6 months until we had to PTS. I think the feel of the t-shirt somehow made up for the loss of his leg.

That is very interesting, sparky.

When he was "sad", was he in pain?

And can you remember who "cheered up" first, you or him, after putting the t-shirt on him?

RIP brave Deerie

[sparkycat]

Our deerhound lost a limb to bone cancer and he was really sad for a couple of days post op until I put one of my sons t-shirts on him and then he cheered up no end.

He wore that t-shirt for 6 months until we had to PTS. I think the feel of the t-shirt somehow made up for the loss of his leg.

That is very interesting, sparky.

When he was "sad", was he in pain?

And can you remember who "cheered up" first, you or him, after putting the t-shirt on him?

RIP brave Deerie

I don't think he was in pain -he just looked lost and kept looking where his leg had been -(it was the front one).

It was definitely him that cheered up first when I put the t-shirt on - I remember he actually got up and gave one of the cats a smooch and then looked at us expectantly as if he was telling us that he was complete again.

It was very sad as he was only 4 years old and a very gentle sweet deerie and in

hindsight I would not go through an amputation because of bone cancer again as the lifespan after amputation is short.

Hope this makes sense !

[puggy_puggy]

I believe that my pug Winston my be still a little unhappy/depressed or it could be possibly that he is still a little unsure after his sudden complete vision loss that occured a little over a month ago now.

The reason I think this is because for alot of the time he walks around with his tail down. And when a pugs tail is down, not curled tightly up over their hip you know that something is not right. Saying this he does not mope around or sit in one spot but I do believe that being blind and having to think more about things has made him more tired then before. He joins in daily activities basically the same way as he did before blindness. His tail does go up when you pat him, tell him he's a good boy, you arrive home from somewhere and he greats you and when he goes for walks etc. He has attended two Christmas Parties, one with lots of people and the other with lots of people and dogs, during both the whole time he had his tail up.

From my side of things when he first went blind I was an absolute mess but I did not baby him. I may have given him more hugs but I basically continued on with normal life whilst bursting into tears alot. Perhaps he knew that I was crying and upset but I don't think it had any effect on him. Now I try to make him as independent as possible and reinforce that he is still top dog in the pack. The only time that I will baby him is to carry him down my internal stairs as they are just to dangerous for a blind dog to be trusted on. Other times if he is lost or unsure I will hold his collar and guide him or call him till he works things out. He's a smart dog and I want him to know I know he is.

I hope that as time progresses his unhappiness/depression/unsureness that causes him not to hold his tail up all of the time lessons and he will again curl his tail all of the time again one day.

[spottychick]

Someone explained to me that dogs don't really have a concept of loss of sight because they don't think in terms of "I used to be able to see and now I can't". They just think "Oh the lights have been turned off! What a nuisance" or something like that and then work out how to deal with it.

All I know is my old girl was totally blind for about a year and it didn't bother her at all. She still ran after interesting smells (with me often chasing after her to stop her falling down ditches/into creeks etc) and I used to marvel at how she would "map out" new environments. Almost like a grid system where she'd slowly "walk" the perimeters and then criss cross through the rest looking for obstacles. Once she'd done that she NEVER hit the obstacles, no matter how fast she was moving. ANd nothing in personality changed. I didn't "baby" her at all - she wouldn't have tolerated it if I did anyway. I just treated her exactly like always - except that I became much more aware of what was around the environment and where she was so I could guide her away from danger, or knock dangerous things out of her way. I got the feeling she knew what I was doing and if she could talk she would've just given me a nod and said "Thanks mate" as she bustled on her way. I must say I have developed outstanding peripheral vision as a result!!! ;)

But as to what influences the positive behaviour I couldn't say. My guess is it's a combination of dogs generally being adaptable chappies, your particular dogs personality and your own attitude.

One thing I DO know for sure is they experience grief - I've seen it more than once. My young dally is only just starting to cheer up (only slightly) after the loss of her buddy a few weeks ago. She has been listless, won't play, off her food and goes looking for him all the time or sits in his favourite sleeping spot and cries. So they can certainly experience some kind of depression.

Edited December 23, 2009 by spottychick

[KnuckleBuster]

Dogs definately feel grief. When we lost our beautiful girl Venus last year Buster was hit hard. Imagine loosing your life partner, I don't believe you ever get over it you just learn to deal with the loss (although not very well as this is taking me a long time to type through teary eyes ). Buster went from being a very young 11 year Rotty to an old man within weeks. He decided it was too much for him so he joined her earlier this year.

A huge hole has been left, but the love they have both given me is worth the heartache. And I now have Knuckles and Banks, two crazy young Rotties ;) (I think Venus and Buster choose them for us,,, to remind us how full on puppies are!).

Sorry, I went off track a bit - in my opinion, yes dogs do feel grief, and I also think they feel the loss of limbs / eyes / etc. They tend to deal with this better than humans though - my eye / leg / etc, is gone but it is not the end of the world, I can still get around on 3 legs, see out of one eye, use my sniffer instead of my eyes, bla bla bla. Okay, I think I've waffled on long enough... sorry...

[4leggdfriend]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I found it as I searched for information to help me with my 9.5YO boxer, Sasha. About 2-2.5 months ago Sasha started showing signs of lethargy, shaking and very very occasionaly stumbled on her back legs. These symptoms started very gradualy until recently where she went down hill quite quickly in the last 2 weeks. Only in the last two weeks did we find she was losing her vision and it was only a few days from first noticing this she was blind. We have been to the vet so many times and last to the eye specialist a few days ago. The eye specialist opinion was that her blindness was a side effect of a brain tumor. So we are going in for an MRI next week.

Two months ago I was still saying to people 'Boxers never grow up' and she was playful and full of energy. Up to two weeks ago, she was still chasing sticks on the beach though it was obvious she was using sound to find them. Last week, she is just concentrating on listening to my footsteps and following me. She seems comfortable, not in pain, she eats (though less than before) she wags her tail when people visit or when I talk to her. But she is sleeping maybe 20-22hrs/day, very heavy sleap. She bumps into things and now I am very concious not to move anything around.

Last night I spent some time with her while she explored the new dark surroundings, she seemed happy to find her way to the couch where I was and sat leaning on me and asked for all sorts of rubs. She seemed very happy after that and moved around more freely, she moved to another chair in the lounge and groomed herself, then back to the couch and explored some more.

The interesting thing is, afetr this relaxed happy mood, she tried to get on the couch one more time, unfortunately it was right where the cat was sleeping, needless to say, the cat got a hell of a fright and hissed and swiped at her face, Sasha yelped and jumped back. From then on her mood completely changed, she kept her head down and seemed very scared to go anywhere, I had to guide her to go out for a pee where she was being incredible cautious and paranoid and was just happy to find her favourite spot and stay there for the rest of the night.

Today she is still sleeping. My gut feeling is, other than feer of pain, she does get depressed and confused. Unless offcourse the tumor is having a major effect on her mood also. Sometimes I still wonder if there is a tumor and if it is all her eyes, but we will find out next week.

She rarely wags her tail any more. After reading some of your comments, I think maybe I have changed my attitude around her too much and maybe I should focus on her being independent a bit more.

[W Sibs]

When Charlie got sick, there was a time where the specialist, the vets, the boyfriend and I thought he was a little depressed but we kept him busy. But, there will be days where he just stay in his crate or bed, and only left the crate or bed when we physically made him. He had good days and then he had bad days, and when those bad days were really really bad.

Everything changed when we got Emmy

[mita]

I agree with KnuckleBuster that dogs can suffer terribly from grief. Our elderly tibbie girl, Angel, had never had an ill or unhappy day in her life.

Her younger tibbie 'sister', Gracie, was her idol. Then Gracie suddenly died after a medication reaction for a non-life- threatening condition.

Angel was so worried about where Gracie had 'gone'. She'd lie at the door or side gates, waiting for Gracie to come back. After a couple of weeks I took her to a vet. Even as I spoke to the vet in the examination room, Angel lay looking under the door, waiting for Gracie to come in, too.

The vet said in her experience it took dogs about 3 weeks of missing their 'pal' to get over it. Not Angel. The penny seemed to drop that Gracie wasn't going to come back thro' the doors & gates. Then Angel just cried, if no member of the family were with her. It wasn't a bark or a whine....but a sad little howl of loneliness. Nothing could stop her mourning. Not even another tibbie girl coming to live with her (Gracie's grand-daughter).

Over the years, this little dog never picked up again, but literally faded away. No one had any doubt she died of a broken heart.

[Aidan]

Dogs were used (and probably still are) as animal models in some of the early experimental research into depression. They certainly can suffer depression, and it's actually not particularly difficult to induce it in dogs. They don't have to suffer a major trauma.

[Little Gifts]

I'm not sure if it is depression as humans feel it but I think there is a sense that something is wrong or missing and they don't know how to fix it or make it right again.

One of my dogs lost her son who she had lived with for 12 years. She turned into this old dog overnight on me. It was awful. She'd previously lost another dog in our pack and spent a lot of time looking for him, so going from a 3 pack to just herself she was quite lost. We got another pup and she is going great still - playing every day like she was still young and spritely. More dogs have also come into the pack as well.

This old dog is also mostly deaf and blind now. She sees shadows but I notice at night if she gets stuck somewhere dark and can't work out where to go she gets a real look of panic on her face. I don't see this as a fear of being blind but a fear of not being able to take care of herself in a pack animal sense as something like this would result in her death in the wild.

[Lab_Rat]

We also had a dog have a leg amputation through cancer about 6 years ago now. I know I was more devastated than I was. I didnt want to go home from work the day my OH brought her home from the vet

She had a bit of pain for a little while, and had what I reckon was phantom pains, but I dont believe she suffered from depression. She certainly behaved differently though, seemingly apologetic for all the fuss she caused - to more loving, to help me through it!! She certainly was an amazing dog. She bounced back to being an energetic, fun loving ridgy, who could run faster on 3 legs than 4

Like the poor Deerhound, she only had just under a year after that with us. I dont think I would go through it again either. But it would depend on the dog really!