Tube Feeding

[SwaY]

Why are some people reluctant to do it?

And why do people wait so long before they intervene?

The way i see it you have a puppy not able to suck, lacking energy, sick etc.

Tube feeding is like free calories, they don't have to work for them.

If a tube were to get into the lung, the puppy could not cry some also go into a coughing spasms.

[Jed]

Some people are reluctant to do it because they don't understand it, and are worried about it, or because they have accidentally killed a pup doing it, or know someone who has.

Pups do not necessarily cough if the tube goes into the lung. Some just quietly die.

I am comfortable with tube feeding, I don't think much can go wrong, but I know people who have killed pups.

On the other hand, I am very uncomfortable bottle feeding pups, in case they get too much, and it goes into the lungs. And pups have to work a lot harder to get the milk if bottle fed.

And although I agreee with you Sway, I know why people wont do it.

[cowanbree]

I don't do it, in fact to be honest other than holding a weak puppy on to his mother and making sure the other puppies don't knock him off I very rarely supplement at all. I have bottled fed puppies for 2-3 weeks when I first started breeding but almost without exception the ones not up and going within 24-48hrs either die later on or have something serious the matter with them.

[angelsun]

I learned to tube feed quite a few years ago and was taught the how's and why's of doing it. I don't have any issues doing this and with a large litter, it saves a ton of time and everyone is happier in the end. What could take two hours to bottle feed, can generally be done in 20 minutes with tube feeding.

Some will say that it does not encourage the sucking action or reflex and that comes back to bite the pup later on, but I can say in all the litters that I've had a hand in helping with, this hasn't been the case.

I believe that tube feeding should not be done as a matter of course because you (as a breeder) are tired or lazy and want it done quickly, but if you lose a bitch for example and there is no other option than full supplimental feeding...it's wonderful. To top up pups from time to time, or give that little one a bit more, I still think bottle is the way to go, or sit with the mom and let the little one nurse whilst the fatties are held off to the side for a bit.

Biggest mistake people make in tube feeding is not having enough length of tube to go down far enough, and having that tube too small in diameter. If you have the basics in canine anatomy to follow, you won't 'drown' a pup.

You can however overfeed and rupture a gut and you can create a regurgitation which can aspirate into the lungs by overfeeding. My rule of thumb is small meals frequently instead of one mega meal and risk this. As well, take your time and don't rush either insertion of the tube, or putting in the formula...all too often, people take their time putting the tube in, but power syringe the liquid and this is where problems arise. Regardless of breed, I can feed by tube a puppy to a nicely full belly in about 2 minutes start to finish.

[SwaY]

I had to tube feed one of my puppies, no problems - I learnt via youtube and a puppy Intensive care DVD

I also talked about many times with a experience breeder, prior to the litter.

A your tube video of tube feeding.

[WreckitWhippet]

I can do it and I'm confortable doing it, however I am of the opinion that if the pup is not strong enough to suckle, then it's not one that I want to raise and send off into the world. I've done it before and I won't be doing it again, my intervention levels are now low and the most I will go to now is a bottle top up. I did this with the last singleton who was fine in herself, it just took the bitch a bit longer to let down her milk.

For others I think there's the fear factor.

Edited December 23, 2009 by SBT123

[Sandra777]

I don't do it, in fact to be honest other than holding a weak puppy on to his mother and making sure the other puppies don't knock him off I very rarely supplement at all. I have bottled fed puppies for 2-3 weeks when I first started breeding but almost without exception the ones not up and going within 24-48hrs either die later on or have something serious the matter with them.

Agree with this completely. I've had litters of 9 and 10 (breed average 4-5) and not supplemented, all survived and thrived. Put it in the bitch and she'll put it in the pups. I will supplement a pup once or twice if it looks perfectly normal and if mum is concerned about it but if it still fails to go ahead or if mum consistently pushes it away then it's not meant to be.

I haven't had the misfortune of losing a bitch, just had one who had a singleton and produced no milk at all. That pup was found a foster mum on day 3 but if I hadn't been that lucky then perhaps I would have gone on and tube fed him, but he was doing very well on a bottle up until day 3.

[Lowenhart]

As a rule, I don't tube feed.

If a puppy can't suck then it has a problem and I don't believe in perpetuating it. There are a number of cases I know of that pups that could not suck at all were tubefed until weaned then went on to be prominent dogs in breeding programs. How inherited this lack of sucking ability is, I don't know, but I don't think it's the way to keep a breed strong & healthy.

It's up to each individual breeder to set the line where they will intervene on a puppy - some are just not supposed to survive. Seeing the heartbreak of a breeder who handraised (tube fed) a puppy and kept it going until 12 weeks when all the problems surfaced and the pup ended up being put down, it just showed that the bad side of heavy intervention.

[WreckitWhippet]

Pancake would be a prime example of why not to bother to tube feed, she's a walking time bomb.

[SwaY]

There are always going to be puppies you don't waste time and energy on - wrong words but you get what im saying.

There is sick, then there is sick.

Every breeder has to know when to draw the line their own line, not measured by anyone else.

Im talking about ones they need a kick start - premmie / supplementing a large litter / loss of mum / no milk etc

[SwaY]

Pancake would be a prime example of why not to bother to tube feed, she's a walking time bomb.

You as a breeder continued the fight for her - I would have not.

[centitout]

My girl that has just had 12 pups,and reared Millies as well from the 3 week mark was a hand raised baby from the 3rd day,big litter etc.She has never been sick yet,apart from getting itchy with too much beef.

None of the 6 hand raised from that litter have had any problems healthwise,so i cant see the problem with intervention,and i dont think puppies needing supp feeding is "genetic" in any way.

But then i am used to it,have handraised litters of kittens dumped at the vets,foals and puppies. I also slept with my bitches for the first 3 days too,that is classed as intervention as well and checked them every 3-4 hrs night /day for another week.

To most people though,it would appear pretty daunting,but if it has to be done,well you just suck it up and have a go, i was brought up that way.

[angelsun]

Pancake would be a prime example of why not to bother to tube feed, she's a walking time bomb.

You as a breeder continued the fight for her - I would have not.

I agree...there is a time when we as breeders must stop intervening. I don't consider tube feeding, intervening. It's more of a convenience and time saver if supplimentation is required due to extreme circumstances.

I lost 7 pups in one litter last year, none of which I stepped in and tube fed. They didn't need it but they died regardless. I waited for puppy number 8 to die like her siblings....I didnt' step in other than to give antibiotics to her (and her surviving siblings prior to their death) and the mother. I stood back and let nature dictate what would happen. She lived and is strong and healthy.

I taught a girl to tube feed a litter when the mother didn't have any milk. What took her by bottle, hours to get done resulting in no sleep for her or her family, after tube feeding, took only minutes and their lives were much better for it. These pups have grown to be healthy happy dogs that now some have pups of their own.

Choosing to save a deathly ill or doomed pup is one thing...tube feeding versus bottle feeding to speed things up and simply get the bellies full and let the humans get some rest, is another story.

[ellz]

I learned how to tube feed many years ago when handrearing a single c-section puppy whose mother had NO milk and no mothering instinct whatsoever. I did find it daunting at first, but it became really easy after that and it is amazing how quickly a puppy will put on weight when they don't have to wear themselves out sucking to do so. My recent Yank litter was the first time I had had to tube in over 10 years and muscle memory worked a treat. First time I was a bit nervous but after that....easy.

Those who say that puppies which are tubed have no sucking instinct obviously haven't seen puppies that literally suck the tube in when you're inserting it. I've had puppies still make sucking movement with their mouths even when I'm syringing the formula in and without exception, even the little weak ones still paddle with their front feet as though they're at the milkbar. And I also believe that the neurological stimulation that a puppy gets from the breeder during tubing is good for temperament development.

The girl I recently had euthanased at 3 weeks of age was tube fed for 2 weeks. Do I regret it? No. Would I do it again under the same circumstances? Yes. Why? Because at no time did her own mother give up on her. Had the bitch rejected her, that would have been a completely different thing but whilst mum was fighting for her and mothering her, cleaning her, stimulating her.....so was I.

I will no longer argue with a bitch. If the bitch continually pushes a puppy away or ignores it, then my gut instinct tells me that she knows something that I don't.

On the other hand, my Stafford bitch has her 4.5week old litter of 9. Not even a hint of a problem with supply....if she had had more boobs she could have probably fed a few more puppies. I haven't had to top a single one up, just watch the distribution at the milkbar and plug one or two in a little more often when the other piglets had fallen into milk comas. I did start offering them a little mince at 3 weeks, but they were more than ready and took to it like.......puppies to mince! ;)

[Bilbo Baggins]

Kadbury and I tube and bottle fed her girls first litter, a caesar pup rejection low supply. 3 pups 1 died. They other 2 would not have survived if we had not intereved. Tubeing was mainly convenience as they did suck well. We finally did get them on the boob fully. Both pups fit and well and in pet homes.

I tube fed my recent litter 6 days prem poor suck. They all died but due to prematury not being tube fed.

[BJean]

I'm not convinced that I didn't kill a pup :D

so I won't tube feed.

But I will take the pup to my vet to tube feed for me.

[WreckitWhippet]

Pancake would be a prime example of why not to bother to tube feed, she's a walking time bomb.

You as a breeder continued the fight for her - I would have not.

I've learnt my lesson with tube feeding and intervention and from there on in, if they weren't strong enough to suckle that's it, mother nature decides what happens to them

[Bisart Dobes]

I tube fed our first litter - bitches first litter / large litter all were fine but we had 48 / 50 deg days and they were only just 3 days and getting dehydrated (aircon in whelping room now) - I was shown how by my mentor and experienced breeder and had no trouble with it - only supplemented for 3 or 4 days while mums milk fully dropped and so did the temperature thank god until they were about 7 weeks - then they got about 4 days of it again poor kids.

Our second litter didn't need it.

I wouldn't tube feed a puppy to save its life if its mum was rejecting it though - nature must take its course in that regard, I have seen too many times dogs that were 'saved' suffering throughout their lives with different things.

[angelsun]

Those who say that puppies which are tubed have no sucking instinct obviously haven't seen puppies that literally suck the tube in when you're inserting it. I've had puppies still make sucking movement with their mouths even when I'm syringing the formula in and without exception, even the little weak ones still paddle with their front feet as though they're at the milkbar. And I also believe that the neurological stimulation that a puppy gets from the breeder during tubing is good for temperament development.

Yes, same here...well said!

[Rysup]

I am happy to tube feed and hand raised my last litter doing so. Their mother had toxic milk, and not much milk either, and if I had not tube fed them then they all would have died. The toxic milk made them sick for a time. It is so quick and easy.

My vet taught me that you put the tube down, if its in the lungs, when you draw back on the syringe you will get air. If you are in the stomach, you wont get air (maybe liquid but def no air).

Works for me!