kayla1 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 One of my dogs, Maxie, is fear aggressive with strange people and becomes stressed/anxious very easily - especially when at the vets. He has been to the vets three times for ripping a dew claw, and each time the vet has pulled the claw out. He now has an extreme fear of getting his nails clipped – however they need to be kept short so that he doesn’t rip them again. I took him to a vet today to get his nails trimmed and he was totally uncontrollable with fear. Vet suggested valium before any future vet visits. Maxie has seen several vets, though today was the first time he has seen this particular vet and the first time he has been this uncontrollable – on previous visits he has been very fearful but not to the extent he was today. Does anyone have any advice, desensitisation tips, for dealing with such a fear of the vets? Also, any suggestions about how I could desensitise Maxie to nail clipping so I could it myself would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm a little confused by your post Kayla.. is the fear of vets, or of nail clipping or of both. Is he fearful of you clipping his nails? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Start by taking him to the vet and get staff to ignore him completely ... just walk him into the clinic and treat and praise big time and then leave. Slowly build up to the staff giving him a treat and praise ... again leaving without anything bad happening to him. Once he is comfortable about going in to the vet maybe start working on having someone touch his paw and give a treat (again nothing bad happening) - even something like shaking paw. Just take each little step slowly until he is comfortable and doesn't just associate the vet as a place where bad things happen. I always take my young dogs to the vets on a regular basic just for attention and treats from the vet staff ... otherwise they would only go to the place for needle and nasty stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm a little confused by your post Kayla.. is the fear of vets, or of nail clipping or of both.Is he fearful of you clipping his nails? Sorry - fearful of both. The fear of nail clipping has been brought on by the times when the vet has pulled the dew claw out after being ripped. Yes he is also now fearful of me clipping his nails. His fear of of the vets is partly related to those experiences, and also because he is fearful of strange people anyway. I would prefer to clip his nails myself to avoid taking him to the vet - so would love some advice on that - and also some advice on dealing with his fear of vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) How does he display his fear of you clipping his nails Kayla.. does he become aggressive or does he just struggle? If the dew claws are an ongoing issue, have you considered him having them out under general anaesthetic? Edited December 22, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Given there is agression and not just fear (based on your post) I'd see a behaviourist to get a one-on-one assessment. The methods described here are good for fearful dogs, but it depends on how reactive your dog is as to how effective they may be (eg he may need to get used to a stranger in his home first, then the street, THEN the vets etc). Fear is a really horrible state of mind. I have a fearful dog (who is not at all aggressive) and seeing a behaviourist changed both of our lives for the good. If I had a "rewind" button I would have seen them much, much sooner, rather than pfaffing about myself trying to solve a problem that I didn't have the skills to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 How does he display his fear of you clipping his nails Kayla.. does he become aggressive or does he just struggle? I can hold his paw but when I try to examine or clip his dew claws he struggles, moans, and mouths my hand. If the dew claws are an ongoing issue, have you considered him having them out under general anaesthetic? Yes I did consider having his dew claws removed as he ripped them several times within a relatively short period of time. However with regular clipping he hasn't ripped a nail since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Given there is agression and not just fear (based on your post) I'd see a behaviourist to get a one-on-one assessment. The methods described here are good for fearful dogs, but it depends on how reactive your dog is as to how effective they may be (eg he may need to get used to a stranger in his home first, then the street, THEN the vets etc). Fear is a really horrible state of mind. I have a fearful dog (who is not at all aggressive) and seeing a behaviourist changed both of our lives for the good. If I had a "rewind" button I would have seen them much, much sooner, rather than pfaffing about myself trying to solve a problem that I didn't have the skills to address. Yes absolutely - Maxie has already been assessed by two behaviourists. He is a very high drive, highly strung dog and is fear aggressive. He has improved a great deal but still a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) How does he display his fear of you clipping his nails Kayla.. does he become aggressive or does he just struggle? I can hold his paw but when I try to examine or clip his dew claws he struggles, moans, and mouths my hand. If the dew claws are an ongoing issue, have you considered him having them out under general anaesthetic? Yes I did consider having his dew claws removed as he ripped them several times within a relatively short period of time. However with regular clipping he hasn't ripped a nail since. Seriously, I think its a case of muzzle him, get someone to hold him and clip those nails or have them removed. The only other option is to take him to a new place like a grooming salon, muzzle him and see how he goes there. You can work at desensitising him by doing only one nail a day and rewarding like hell afterwards but they have to get done somehow. Any further 'ripping out' of nails needs to done under GA. It probably should have been done that way to begin with. Edited December 22, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Seriously, I think its a case of muzzle him, get someone to hold him and clip those nails or have them removed. The only other option is to take him to a new place like a grooming salon, muzzle him and see how he goes there. You can work at desensitising him by doing only one nail a day and rewarding like hell afterwards but they have to get done somehow. Any further 'ripping out' of nails needs to done under GA. It probably should have been done that way to begin with. That's what happened today - he was muzzled, held down by myself and a vet nurse, and the vet clipped the nails. I just wanted to try and find a way that wasn't so obviously stressful for him. When he ripped his dew claws, he caught them on something when running and the nail was ripped partly off. The vet then pulled the nail completely off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 That's what happened today - he was muzzled, held down by myself and a vet nurse, and the vet clipped the nails. I just wanted to try and find a way that wasn't so obviously stressful for him. One nail at a time, at home, you do the clipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgEwiH8CeUE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHgBvnQ71ss...feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Kayla1 ..... if you want to contact me and organise to come around, I'll be happy to show you how to begin to make this problem less of a problem. No charge - I'll just show you how to begin to get him to be better about his nails. No time until in the early New Year though. I agree with others - better for you to do it yourself, and at home, if you can. Edited December 22, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 what breed and how old, when did you get him and was he always like this? And what have the behaviorists offered in way of trying to work on him offering alternative behaviors if he feels stressed? Have you also tried not being around when he has his nails clipped? Sounds like a lot more work needs to be done, the trick is to try and find the right way to go about teaching him it's not a big deal. OK so he now feels the need to pull big reactions for small things. So the trick is to work on one thing at a time and start teaching him 1) his reactions are unwarranted and 2) he doesnt react because there is no need to. A combination of confidence and raising obedience level that he soon realises YOU dictate him, not his automatic reaction dictating it and then you trying to pin him down. Sort of like trying to push all that clothing back into the overstuffed suitcase, it can never go back properly if overstuffed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Where in Vic are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Kayla1 ..... if you want to contact me and organise to come around, I'll be happy to show you how to begin to make this problem less of a problem. No charge - I'll just show you how to begin to get him to be better about his nails. No time until in the early New Year though.I agree with others - better for you to do it yourself, and at home, if you can. Thanks very much Erny. Will email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Where in Vic are you? Mornington Peninsula. Happy to travel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted December 23, 2009 Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 what breed and how old, when did you get him and was he always like this? And what have the behaviorists offered in way of trying to work on him offering alternative behaviors if he feels stressed?Have you also tried not being around when he has his nails clipped? Sounds like a lot more work needs to be done, the trick is to try and find the right way to go about teaching him it's not a big deal. OK so he now feels the need to pull big reactions for small things. So the trick is to work on one thing at a time and start teaching him 1) his reactions are unwarranted and 2) he doesnt react because there is no need to. A combination of confidence and raising obedience level that he soon realises YOU dictate him, not his automatic reaction dictating it and then you trying to pin him down. Sort of like trying to push all that clothing back into the overstuffed suitcase, it can never go back properly if overstuffed Yes that’s what it felt like! No I haven’t tried that – I am always around when he has his nails clipped as he generally struggles to get behind/under me. Not sure re breed as he’s a rescue, possibly a small bc x about 2 yrs old. Initially he was much worse – enormous drive and no outlet, and no off switch – so totally over the top and consistently stressed/anxious. It’s taken many months and he has improved immensely but you’re right, there is still a lot of work to do in regard to his fears. Different behaviourists have suggested different things – distraction using food/balls, corrections such as water spray, time out, Be Still exercise etc. I’m now trying to slowly decrease the distance at which he reacts by rewarding appropriate behaviour. But at the vets he is too close to too many strange people, on top of his fear re dew claws, so it's just all too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I think you need to separate the two issues- i would work on the paw handling and nail clipping through shaping in gradual steps and then separately work on the vet issue. The process needs to include desensitisation to every part of the process. eg, - vet smell - vet clothes - paw handling - vet physical location - being on vet table - paw handling - nail clippers - sound of nail clippers Erny's offer sounds like a good one too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 What type of nail clippers do they use?? Honestly his reaction is typical of many dogs we groom because there not done often. The right technique & the right nail clippers & you can easily get it done. Have you tried using a file??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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