tuscamada Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hi all I need some input on pulling the plug on the sale of a dog when they have paid a deposit?? were do I stand ? I would give them the deposit back of course, just have a bad feeling about the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigit Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hi all I need some input on pulling the plug on the sale of a dog when they have paid a deposit?? were do I stand ? I would give them the deposit back of course, just have a bad feeling about the whole thing. you have a few options, be honest, or say the pup has shown some health problems and needs further testing, tell them you are required to give them back their deposit until the testing is complete. Hopefully they will go elsewhere in the mean time and you never hear from them again. But be prepared to continue on the lie if they do keep calling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceful Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I have done that without any problems in the past. Just give them back the deposit and explain the situation to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuscamada Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hi all I need some input on pulling the plug on the sale of a dog when they have paid a deposit?? were do I stand ? I would give them the deposit back of course, just have a bad feeling about the whole thing. you have a few options, be honest, or say the pup has shown some health problems and needs further testing, tell them you are required to give them back their deposit until the testing is complete. Hopefully they will go elsewhere in the mean time and you never hear from them again. But be prepared to continue on the lie if they do keep calling back. This is an adult bitch who I thought was going to a pet home untill they started talking about wanting a litter from her, I told them she was a carrier for Collie Eye Anomoly and would have to be put to a clear dog etc and all the pups would have to be DNA tested but they wern't put off, were prepared to join the canine body and get a prefix etc but she works for the RSPCA and with what is going on lately I am not willing to go ahead with the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Advise them that you are now having her spayed and if they'd still like her as companion fine, and if not you'll return their deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaceful Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Just explain to them that you want her to go to a pet home and not be bred from and so you need to get her spayed first before she is re-homed. Once she is spayed you wont have to worry about people trying to breed from her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Do you have anything in writing? Be very careful if you haven't. Definitely give them back the deposit. Don't make up any fibs that might come back to bite you on the behind. If the prospective purchaser is not an experienced breeder they shouldn't even be CONSIDERING dealing with a bitch that carries a hereditary condition. Personally, I would just tell them that you ONLY want her to go to a pet home and that she will be speyed prior to rehoming and if they are no longer happy with this, you will refund their deposit. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't make excuses or dig any holes that may be too deep to get out of later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 This is an adult bitch who I thought was going to a pet home untill they started talking about wanting a litter from her, I told them she was a carrier for Collie Eye Anomoly and would have to be put to a clear dog etc and all the pups would have to be DNA tested but they wern't put off, were prepared to join the canine body and get a prefix etc but she works for the RSPCA and with what is going on lately I am not willing to go ahead with the sale. Err, she works for the RSPCA and she wants to go ahead and breed with a carrier of Collie Eye Anomaly? Apart from anything else, having just read the RSPCA's draft code of practice on breeding, I think you are either being entrapped or she is remarkably clueless. I think ellz has given wise advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuscamada Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 This is an adult bitch who I thought was going to a pet home untill they started talking about wanting a litter from her, I told them she was a carrier for Collie Eye Anomoly and would have to be put to a clear dog etc and all the pups would have to be DNA tested but they wern't put off, were prepared to join the canine body and get a prefix etc but she works for the RSPCA and with what is going on lately I am not willing to go ahead with the sale. Err, she works for the RSPCA and she wants to go ahead and breed with a carrier of Collie Eye Anomaly? Apart from anything else, having just read the RSPCA's draft code of practice on breeding, I think you are either being entrapped or she is remarkably clueless. I think ellz has given wise advice. Yes that is what got my allarm bells ringing when she told me that and the only thing in writing is the emails back and forth?? That is why I was looking to rehome her as she is a carrier and has produced carrier pups, such a shame as she is a lovely bitch and silly me believed the yearly and baby eye tests which are supposed tp pick this up, the pups also passed there baby eye tests !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 This is an adult bitch who I thought was going to a pet home untill they started talking about wanting a litter from her, I told them she was a carrier for Collie Eye Anomoly and would have to be put to a clear dog etc and all the pups would have to be DNA tested but they wern't put off, were prepared to join the canine body and get a prefix etc but she works for the RSPCA and with what is going on lately I am not willing to go ahead with the sale. Err, she works for the RSPCA and she wants to go ahead and breed with a carrier of Collie Eye Anomaly? Apart from anything else, having just read the RSPCA's draft code of practice on breeding, I think you are either being entrapped or she is remarkably clueless. I think ellz has given wise advice. Yes that is what got my allarm bells ringing when she told me that and the only thing in writing is the emails back and forth?? That is why I was looking to rehome her as she is a carrier and has produced carrier pups, such a shame as she is a lovely bitch and silly me believed the yearly and baby eye tests which are supposed tp pick this up, the pups also passed there baby eye tests !!! Eye tests won't uncover carriers, only DNA can do that. Physical examination cannot reveal what is lurking in the gene pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuscamada Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 This is an adult bitch who I thought was going to a pet home untill they started talking about wanting a litter from her, I told them she was a carrier for Collie Eye Anomoly and would have to be put to a clear dog etc and all the pups would have to be DNA tested but they wern't put off, were prepared to join the canine body and get a prefix etc but she works for the RSPCA and with what is going on lately I am not willing to go ahead with the sale. Err, she works for the RSPCA and she wants to go ahead and breed with a carrier of Collie Eye Anomaly? Apart from anything else, having just read the RSPCA's draft code of practice on breeding, I think you are either being entrapped or she is remarkably clueless. I think ellz has given wise advice. Yes that is what got my allarm bells ringing when she told me that and the only thing in writing is the emails back and forth?? That is why I was looking to rehome her as she is a carrier and has produced carrier pups, such a shame as she is a lovely bitch and silly me believed the yearly and baby eye tests which are supposed tp pick this up, the pups also passed there baby eye tests !!! Eye tests won't uncover carriers, only DNA can do that. Physical examination cannot reveal what is lurking in the gene pool. Yep thats true as we found out when one of the puppy owners had there girl DNA tested, hence I have just spent heaps on getting my dogs tested as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 There is nothing wrong with breeding from a CEA carrier. So long as she is only bred to DNA normal partners her puppies will never be affected. It doesn't matter if you end up with 20 generations of carriers so long as there are no affected puppies and the DNA test is being used for the purpose it was intended. The development of DNA tests was designed to allow more dogs to be bred from not less thus expanding the gene pool , not reducing it. Removing carriers leads to a reduction in the gene pool and allows other disease genes to become more concentrated in the breed. This leads to more genetic problems that there are no tests available for. Once an autosomal recessive condition like CEA is able to be detected by DNA testing it is no longer a problem for the breed. It becomes one of the few things that can be absolutley controlled. Puppies from a Carrier/Normal mating do not need to be puppy eye tested as they won't be affected and they do not need to be DNA tested if they are going to be desexed pets because it doesn't matter if they are carriers or not. They will be perfectly healthy dogs. The only offspring of a carrier that need to be DNA tested are the ones that you are going to breed on from. They have 50/50 chance of also being a carrier and if they are carriers they can just be bred to normals. The best puppy should be chosen to go on with regardless of it's CEA DNA status. The only advantage to breeding from all DNA normals is a financial one in that you don't need to test the next generation. This should be the last consideration in breeding quality puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 There is nothing wrong with breeding from a CEA carrier. So long as she is only bred to DNA normal partners her puppies will never be affected. Still not something that a "prospective" breeder should be taking on initially and most CERTAINLY not considering that the "prospective" breeder could cause Tuscamada untold issues if they aren't playing fair. And given the current climate, the past "Greyshaft" case and many other factors....in my eyes, placing it safe is the wisest course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstar Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) Ring your CC in your state and ask their advice. I know in SA once you have taken a deposit you are legally bound to sell them that dog. Leanne just spotted that you are in SA, give SACA a ring and ask for their advice, a friend tried to pull out on a puppy buyer that had paid a deposit and unless the puppy was ill she had to sell it to them. Edited December 20, 2009 by Ozstar Kennels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 There is nothing wrong with breeding from a CEA carrier. So long as she is only bred to DNA normal partners her puppies will never be affected. Still not something that a "prospective" breeder should be taking on initially and most CERTAINLY not considering that the "prospective" breeder could cause Tuscamada untold issues if they aren't playing fair. And given the current climate, the past "Greyshaft" case and many other factors....in my eyes, placing it safe is the wisest course of action. I have been involved with the develpoment of DNA tests in my breed for over 15 years and also happen to be a close friend of the breeder involved in the Greyshaft case so know far more about DNA testing than most breeders. The breeder in the Greyshaft case won the court case eventually because at the time there was no DNA test available and she had no way of knowing the problem might exist. She was just very unlucky to sell a puppy to the most unreasonable person on the planet. Since then we have had a DNA test developed for TNS to make sure this never happens to another breeder. CEA is very rarely fatal, and is no big deal. The majority of affected dogs do not even have any sight defects but a very small proportion do. The Collie and Sheltie breeders are still breeding with affected dogs and doing carrier/carrier matings because they simply do not have enough clinically or DNA normal dogs to do otherwise. BCs have the highest DNA testing rate and for CEA approx 20% of the breed are carriers worldwide. Eliminating 20% of the gene pool would be ridiculous but we are lucky enough to be in a position to have the numbers that allow us to always breed with one parent DNA normal to avoid having any more affected puppies. I believe the Aussies probably have a similar percentage of carriers to the BCs. The Collies and Shelties are many years and generations away from being in this position. There is no problem with any prospective breeder taking on a "carrier" provided the fact that the dog is a carrier and what this entails is declared in writing. For me the bigger question here is why would the OP be getting rid of an otherwise lovely bitch just because she is a CEA carrier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Where you selling it as pet or showdog?? If it was pet home why wasnt she going spayed in the first place?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 For me the bigger question here is why would the OP be getting rid of an otherwise lovely bitch just because she is a CEA carrier? I can think of lots of reasons, essentially none of which are anybody's business but the OP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 You may have trouble if they want to get nasty - once a deposit is taken you are required to sell them the puppy. A friend of mine took a deposit, then changed her mind about the home. But the lady wanted to get nasty, went to Fair Trading and my friend was advised to just sell her the puppy. Funnily enough a few weeks later the dog was back as it didnt fit in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuscamada Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 There is nothing wrong with breeding from a CEA carrier. So long as she is only bred to DNA normal partners her puppies will never be affected. Still not something that a "prospective" breeder should be taking on initially and most CERTAINLY not considering that the "prospective" breeder could cause Tuscamada untold issues if they aren't playing fair. And given the current climate, the past "Greyshaft" case and many other factors....in my eyes, placing it safe is the wisest course of action. I have been involved with the develpoment of DNA tests in my breed for over 15 years and also happen to be a close friend of the breeder involved in the Greyshaft case so know far more about DNA testing than most breeders. The breeder in the Greyshaft case won the court case eventually because at the time there was no DNA test available and she had no way of knowing the problem might exist. She was just very unlucky to sell a puppy to the most unreasonable person on the planet. Since then we have had a DNA test developed for TNS to make sure this never happens to another breeder. CEA is very rarely fatal, and is no big deal. The majority of affected dogs do not even have any sight defects but a very small proportion do. The Collie and Sheltie breeders are still breeding with affected dogs and doing carrier/carrier matings because they simply do not have enough clinically or DNA normal dogs to do otherwise. BCs have the highest DNA testing rate and for CEA approx 20% of the breed are carriers worldwide. Eliminating 20% of the gene pool would be ridiculous but we are lucky enough to be in a position to have the numbers that allow us to always breed with one parent DNA normal to avoid having any more affected puppies. I believe the Aussies probably have a similar percentage of carriers to the BCs. The Collies and Shelties are many years and generations away from being in this position. There is no problem with any prospective breeder taking on a "carrier" provided the fact that the dog is a carrier and what this entails is declared in writing. For me the bigger question here is why would the OP be getting rid of an otherwise lovely bitch just because she is a CEA carrier? The other person being me was just wanting to place her in a loving family home as that is what I do with my older girls once I have had litters from them as I believe they should have the chance on a one on one family situation instead of a kennel dog all there lives. Seems I have opened a can of worms here and that I might have to sell them her anyway if that is the law here in SA, the lady seems like a nice person when I talk to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 If you feel you HAVE to sell her to these people, advise them you'll be having her speyed before she leaves you...there is no reason for her to remain entire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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