Proofing With Distractions

[Ptolomy]

Thanks for posting all the videos bedazzled...I had fun doing them and watching Scoota and Brooklyn work through it

Caffy I have just watched Snaz's SFE clip. He did well for a non obedience dog - in fact he did well for a UD dog (says she who wishes her dog would do a SFE that well LOL).

Just wondering, when you returned to him - did you tell him to wait or stay before reaching into your pocket for food, or doed he have a release word and he wont move until he hears that?

[caffy]

Thanks for posting all the videos bedazzled...I had fun doing them and watching Scoota and Brooklyn work through it

Caffy I have just watched Snaz's SFE clip. He did well for a non obedience dog - in fact he did well for a UD dog (says she who wishes her dog would do a SFE that well LOL).

Just wondering, when you returned to him - did you tell him to wait or stay before reaching into your pocket for food, or doed he have a release word and he wont move until he hears that?

He has a release word.

I did a lot of opposition reflex with him if that helps He used to fall over a lot like the Tripod :D

[ness]

Thought I would see if anybody has any wild start peg distraction ideas. Ness loves to switch off at the start peg so I am determined that Kenzie doesn't follow the same path and after noticing on Monday night she could take 2 steps and would then lose the plot I am determined to have a dog who remains focussed . Tonight I started with a peg as a cone and was working at having her set up straight the first time and also using a distraction of her favourite toy (she is majorly toy obsessed). She did that easily so now I am trying to work out what sort of progression I could have from there. Her major issue are people but its a bit difficult to 'rent a crowd' for distraction training and its probably also a bit too big a distraction for her at this point as she is unlikely to be successful. So what other ideas for start peg distractions do people have that I can add to the list to work through. She isn't really foodie so I doubt food on the ground would be an issue for her.

[Ptolomy]

Gypsy is only 5 and a half months, and the first dog I've trained 'properly', but in our limited experience....

I do ToT with Gypsy, and I think that has helped with distractions, especially in stays, as she knows that even if there's food around, she doesn't get it until she's released to it. So, she's pretty good with food now, I can throw food in front of her, all around her, wave it in her face and she won't break a stay (while moving it might be a different story, but we're not there yet). I can throw toys past her, wave them in her face, etc and she'll hold a stay. I can also run around her in circles, run towards her and away again, etc, and she'll hold. Not sure about other people, haven't been able to test it much.

She can be mid-zoomies running around or playing with her tug and then will sit and stay while I wave the same tug around and she won't go for it until told, and then she explodes trying to get it (trying to substitute toys for food more often now)

Next is to start adding in food/toy/people distractions while moving, but first we need to do more practice with just a basic 'heel' with the normal distractions of being at training rather than home or an empty oval

Gees you are doing well - my puppy is 5 1/2 months old and stay isn't in her vocab - its actually one of the last things I teach........ As for distraction - life is one big distraction - poor girl

Good luck with your future training - do you have a video camera so you can tape some of what she is up to?

[Ptolomy]

Thought I would see if anybody has any wild start peg distraction ideas. Ness loves to switch off at the start peg so I am determined that Kenzie doesn't follow the same path and after noticing on Monday night she could take 2 steps and would then lose the plot I am determined to have a dog who remains focussed . Tonight I started with a peg as a cone and was working at having her set up straight the first time and also using a distraction of her favourite toy (she is majorly toy obsessed). She did that easily so now I am trying to work out what sort of progression I could have from there. Her major issue are people but its a bit difficult to 'rent a crowd' for distraction training and its probably also a bit too big a distraction for her at this point as she is unlikely to be successful. So what other ideas for start peg distractions do people have that I can add to the list to work through. She isn't really foodie so I doubt food on the ground would be an issue for her.

My first question would be - can she actually stay focused at the peg without any distractions????? As a matter of interest - have you timed this ?????

[Ptolomy]

[He has a release word.

I did a lot of opposition reflex with him if that helps He used to fall over a lot like the Tripod :D

Argh the old release word hey

What do you do if he moves before the release word? and do you still do this even if he has completed the SFE and you walking around him?

With my OC dog (which stands for Occassionally Clever) I have been returning to him and reaching into my pocket for food and he has been moving a foot - so I have been giving a NRM "wrong" and taking my hand out of my pocket and then a few seconds later - trying it again. Am I creating a bad habit or is this going to turn into a mountain further down the track????

[Ptolomy]

[i did a lot of opposition reflex with him if that helps He used to fall over a lot like the Tripod :D

Anybody elses dog stand like a tripod, so front legs level and under the body and one rear leg stuck out at a funny angle to the side?

This should be part of the toller breed standard

[ness]

Yep Kenzie can sit at a start peg focused with no distractions and I have timed it in the past - maybe its not long enough - actually that got me thinking if you want to teach heelwork with perfect attention as yes I am a fussy bastard to please should you have at least that length of attention with the dog sitting at heel. So if for example you wanted 30 seconds of attentive heelwork - would you start with having the dog sit or stand at heel for at least 30 seconds before attempting to get anything on the move. I know I have not built stationary duration attention with either of mine and it just occured to me whether that may be the flaw in my training.

[Staff'n'Toller]

[i did a lot of opposition reflex with him if that helps He used to fall over a lot like the Tripod :D

Anybody elses dog stand like a tripod, so front legs level and under the body and one rear leg stuck out at a funny angle to the side?

This should be part of the toller breed standard

Perhaps they are like the guy driving his Ford who couldn't turn off his cruise control on the M3 yesterday and need to be sent back to the manufacturer for review??

I'm not sure with my particular model I will have to check it out.

[ness]

Nope Kenzie just likes to stand crooked but touch wood we appear to have finally solved that little problem .

[Staff'n'Toller]

Nope Kenzie just likes to stand crooked but touch wood we appear to have finally solved that little problem .

New part fitted??

ETA: Sorry I keep taking this thread off topic so I will go back into lurk mode.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Staff'n'Toller

[Serket]

Gypsy is only 5 and a half months, and the first dog I've trained 'properly', but in our limited experience....

I do ToT with Gypsy, and I think that has helped with distractions, especially in stays, as she knows that even if there's food around, she doesn't get it until she's released to it. So, she's pretty good with food now, I can throw food in front of her, all around her, wave it in her face and she won't break a stay (while moving it might be a different story, but we're not there yet). I can throw toys past her, wave them in her face, etc and she'll hold a stay. I can also run around her in circles, run towards her and away again, etc, and she'll hold. Not sure about other people, haven't been able to test it much.

She can be mid-zoomies running around or playing with her tug and then will sit and stay while I wave the same tug around and she won't go for it until told, and then she explodes trying to get it (trying to substitute toys for food more often now)

Next is to start adding in food/toy/people distractions while moving, but first we need to do more practice with just a basic 'heel' with the normal distractions of being at training rather than home or an empty oval

Gees you are doing well - my puppy is 5 1/2 months old and stay isn't in her vocab - its actually one of the last things I teach........ As for distraction - life is one big distraction - poor girl

Good luck with your future training - do you have a video camera so you can tape some of what she is up to?

Thanks. A lot of people say we're doing well, but I don't have a previous standard to compare to (except family dogs years ago who only knew 'sit' and then only sometimes), so I just see it as 'normal'. I can only dream of being as good as some of the dog/handler teams here on DOL though - it's great watching all the youtube videos to see how it should be done

She's really very quick at picking things up but sometimes it works the wrong way - like the release word from her crate is 'ok', except apparently eye contact is also necessary because she won't come out of her crate if it's dark and she can't see me - still trying to fix that one.

I started with stays pretty early on, because I read so much about people having issues with them I thought I'd get in early. She'll also stay with food in front of her when I'm out of sight too, I'm a mean mum, according to OH, for making her do that though.

I differentiate between 'stay' and 'wait', with different hand signals for each - stay meaning don't move until I come back, and 'wait' meaning stay where you are until I say otherwise, could be release to food or a toy, or could be recall or something else. I don't know if it's made any difference, but her stays are pretty rock solid, although she had a week recently where she seemed to forget the meaning of the word entirely and would just get up and wander off I thought I'd broken her somehow.

The only video camera I've got at the moment is the video function on our old digital camera, but I can try to set it up somewhere on a table or something, or borrow my sister's video camera (or convince OH that we need one...:D)

[ness]

Yeah must have done S'n'T . I don't think this thread really has an off topic as such .

ETA. Hmm 5.5 month old pup with a stay must put stay on my list of things to teach cos my 20 month old can't manage a stay to save herself except for long enough for me to do a lead out in agility . Stays are sooo boring.

Does anybody have any fun ideas for teaching stays. I will add its not that she doesn't stay its just that she doesn't have much duration on her stay. I can have her madly retrieving her ball ask for a sit and she will not move a single muscle until released. Building up to the time required for the ring I just find dull and boring :D .

Edited December 17, 2009 by ness

[Staff'n'Toller]

Maybe it was the ceramic.......lets just say it was.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Way back in my other training life we always marked the breaking with an uhh uhh said very gruffly and physically placed them back where they were and in position.

Now I just do the SG method - say nothing, collar grab take back to where they were and ask nicely for another sit - and by golly it works!!! Geordie is a little sh*t compared to my others and didn't learn to stay until much later!

[ness]

Oh and while we are posting on everything under the sun in this thread - does anybody have any bright ideas for a broken COP sit. Somehow Kenzie thinks she is clever if she offers a lovely stand from a drop rather than a sit when I tell her to sit - ARGH. Its a nice stand from a drop BUT not what I want!!!!!!!

Edited December 17, 2009 by ness

[Serket]

Yeah must have done S'n'T . I don't think this thread really has an off topic as such .

ETA. Hmm 5.5 month old pup with a stay must put stay on my list of things to teach cos my 20 month old can't manage a stay to save herself except for long enough for me to do a lead out in agility . Stays are sooo boring.

Does anybody have any fun ideas for teaching stays. I will add its not that she doesn't stay its just that she doesn't have much duration on her stay. I can have her madly retrieving her ball ask for a sit and she will not move a single muscle until released. Building up to the time required for the ring I just find dull and boring :D .

I have to say I haven't built up a long duration specifically in Gypsy's stays yet, but she can probably do at least a minute. She did 40 seconds with the instructor running around her in circles at our end of class competition a month or so ago. I should time how long she can hold one now, and start working on it more. The idea of several minute long stays bores me to tears too, but apparently we need to do a 10 minute stay (!!!!) to pass the introductory level of obedience. So, I really should work on it more. I think it's insane though.

(ETA: I have about 8 weeks to get to 10 minutes, thanks to a 6 week break in classes over Christmas and January...hmm. It's a very very long time for any dog, much less a 7 month old puppy [by that point])

I don't think you can make a stay interesting in itself (unless the dog finds it more interesting (rather than more distracting) with things to watch, i.e. not sitting in an empty room?), except maybe make the reward at the end super-exciting to make it worthwhile?

Edited December 17, 2009 by Serket

[RubyStar]

but apparently we need to do a 10 minute stay (!!!!) to pass the introductory level of obedience. So, I really should work on it more. I think it's insane though.

Insane is definitely right! That would be as boring at batpoop to a well trained dog and tedious to train, so as a measurement to pass an INTRODUCTORY obedience class, come on! Who is writing up the course guidelines here?! They need their head read! UD dogs aren't even required to do that. The longest length of a sit stay in competition is 3 minutes I believe?? (and down stay 7 minutes?) Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That's my 2 cents worth, anyway

Edited December 17, 2009 by RubyStar

[bedazzledx2]

It was a combined effort wasn't it Caffy! Good fun You and Alex have a talent for distraction.....you could hire yourselves out and make a fortune :D

Thanks for posting all the videos bedazzled...I had fun doing them and watching Scoota and Brooklyn work through it

[caffy]

Argh the old release word hey

What do you do if he moves before the release word? and do you still do this even if he has completed the SFE and you walking around him?

With my OC dog (which stands for Occassionally Clever) I have been returning to him and reaching into my pocket for food and he has been moving a foot - so I have been giving a NRM "wrong" and taking my hand out of my pocket and then a few seconds later - trying it again. Am I creating a bad habit or is this going to turn into a mountain further down the track????

If he moves a foot before release I abort!! I may stand him again and then push him gently to remind him to plant the feet then re do the SFE stand ...helps to build success.