Decided To Check Nsw Dog Attacks

[Longcoat]

Now there's talk on a public forum of falsifying papers ( they would have to be ANKC papers ) to prove to rangers that people own a certain breed. Now that really is fraudulant, but for Pit Bull owners, that doesn't seem to matter, it's just a means to an end, that threatens to dump every ANKC Bull Breed in the same basket.

Load of crap!

That is "Longcoats" talk. He/she seems to think getting ANKC papers is like buying a packet of cornflakes.

Besides, if people were to try and falsify ANKC papers, one rangers phonecall to the state body would soon fix that up.

What happens I believe Rottiadora, is breeding a litter of APBT's and registering them against Amstaff parentage. The ANKC wouldn't know if the Amstaff dam on the paperwork has had a litter or not, or who sired the litter. The ranger can phone the state body all they like and the paperwork applies to the dog in question ligitimately and there is no argument

[Jed]

And who would own the Amstaffs listed as the parents of the APBT litter?

[Longcoat]

And who would own the Amstaffs listed as the parents of the APBT litter?

The APBT breeder owned the Amstaff bitch in the situation I heard of Jed.

[WreckitWhippet]

And people wonder why others won't support their cause

[justin19801]

So many B$L supporters on a dog site, how very interesting. First it started with the APBT, then the Tosa, Dogo and Fila were added, then the Presa, now R$PCA wants the American Bulldog and AST added. Most dogs killed by R$PCA are simply harmless lookalikes (SBT or Lab crosses). Qld councils have banned over a dozen different breeds. And people think their bully breed is safe?

[rottiadora]

The APBT breeder owned the Amstaff bitch in the situation I heard of Jed.

Hearsay....... or someones imagination maybe

Edited March 17, 2010 by rottiadora

[sandgrubber]

Just to clarify some facts that are getting in the way of a good story:

I knew Mrs Barbara Stringer. I used to purchase items at the lovely Gift Shop her daughter owned. Over time we became friends.

Secondly, I know the mother of the young man who owned the Labrador cross involved in the attack. The dog was registered with the local Council as a Labrador -cross. It was not a vicious dog. It was a very friendly dog. Looking at it you would be hard pressed to identify the cross. According to the family the suggestion was that it was crossed with a bull terrier type.

After the attack it was brought by the Police to my Vet to be put down. The dog walked into that Clinic with a wagging tail and was pleased to see the Staff and gave each of them a lick. Even when he was being put down, his tail was wagging and he licked the Vet on the hand. The Vet said that it was incredible to associate such a friendly dog with such an horrific attack.

What actually happened on that terrible day. Barbara was in the Gift Shop when she took a phone call to say that the alarm in her nephew's house was going off. She was keeping an eye on the house while he was away.

Barbara had a key to the front door of the house but because the burglar alarm had gone off she took the steering wheel lock with her just in case while she checked the outside of the house to see if any of the windows had been forced open.

Rose, the next door neighbour, was in the yard hanging out the clothes and called out to her. As Rose walked towards the fence the Labrador-cross raced up to the fence and barked at Barbara..... the dividing fences in that part of town were chain mesh -no more than 1.2m high.

She stopped and spoke to the next door neighbour, who was the mother of the owner of the dog. The dog, which was in the neighbouring yard with the owner's mother, came up to the dividing fence and barked at her. She was holding a steering wheel lock (not 100% on this, something similar), and she waved it at the dog, saying "oh, you're a naughty boy", at which the dog hurdled the fence and attacked her, causing fatal injuries. The dog was seized by the council, and put down. When interviewed, friends of the owner ( who was a youth), said he boasted that he would make the dog savage.

Rose actually threw herself on top of Barbara in an effort to stop the Labrador-cross from doing more damage. The attack happened so quickly. Another neighbour who heard the screams and Rose's cries for help, phoned the Police.

Rose's son was 19 years old.

It was amazing how the local press ran with the suggestion that it was a Pit Bull cross. Anyway... that fatal attack changed the Local Laws forever. The resulting Court case was horrendous for both Barbra Stringer's Family and for Rose. That's where the quote that the 19 year old was going to make his dog a killing machine originated and every Pit Bull Terrier in Queensland paid the price for that brag.

What a horrible and strange story.

I've never seen a dog be waggy friendly, then turn vicious, jump the fence, and attack (much less kill) someone who wasn't doing much to provoke attack (waving a wheel lock and saying 'you naughty boy' doesn't sound that offensive), then go back to waggy friendly at the vets. Making a dog savage requires some dedication and skill . . . the kid's brag sounds to me like hot air.

Makes me wonder if someone missed something.

It's Australia, so unlikely the dog was rabid . . . maybe a tumor or something? Guess we'll never know . .. but it's a poor reflection on governance that the case has fed BSL.

Edited March 17, 2010 by sandgrubber

[BJean]

What a horrible and strange story.

I've never seen a dog be waggy friendly, then turn vicious, jump the fence, and attack (much less kill) someone who wasn't doing much to provoke attack (waving a wheel lock and saying 'you naughty boy' doesn't sound that offensive), then go back to waggy friendly at the vets. Making a dog savage requires some dedication and skill . . . the kid's brag sounds to me like hot air.

Makes me wonder if someone missed something.

It's Australia, so unlikely the dog was rabid . . . maybe a tumor or something? Guess we'll never know . .. but it's a poor reflection on governance that the case has fed BSL.

If a dog attacks from a sense of territory and self-defence (as what sounds the case here)

its behaviour to a perceived unknown in its own environment

has NO correlation to how the same dog then behaves at the vet.

There is nothing inconsistent in this dog's behaviour.

Dogs aren't 'savage' by nature. They dont go out to kill people.

The alarm going off, the victim climbing the fence waving the wheel lock, imo explains the outcome.

Edited March 17, 2010 by lilli

[Jed]

sandgrubber

What a horrible and strange story.

I've never seen a dog be waggy friendly, then turn vicious, jump the fence, and attack (much less kill) someone who wasn't doing much to provoke attack (waving a wheel lock and saying 'you naughty boy' doesn't sound that offensive), then go back to waggy friendly at the vets. Making a dog savage requires some dedication and skill . . . the kid's brag sounds to me like hot air.

Sounds pretty right to me. I think my story and that of Tarmons, who knew the people involved, are basically the same. Tarmons knows more detail.

Normal dog behaviour - in the situation. That is how some dogs behave, particularly with a little "training"

lilli - Mrs. Stringer didn't climb the fence, she was on the other side. And she may not have said "naughty boy"", but it was words to that effect.

[Tarmons]

sandgrubber

Barbara Stringer threatened the dog. He barked at her and she leant over the fence and waved the Steering wheel lock at him as she said ' Don't you dare bark at me! You naughty dog!' That's when the dog leaped the fence and knocked her to the ground.

Also as far as that dog was concerned Barbara Stringer was a 'stranger' in the next door neighbour's yard. He didn't know her at all but he did know the owner of the house very well.

[rotts4ever]

Why can't people learn that stats are a load of crap and prove nothing.

Just because as you say 137 people were bitten by GSD's means nothing, when in 2006 there were 35,700 pure bred registered GSD's. That's less than 1%. In the same year there were 24,000 pure bred registered Rotties again less than 1%. And that's only counting the ones that are registered There are many more of the more popular breeds that aren't registered or are registered with council incorrectly

We all know that BSL is wrong and no breed should be banned just because the Media and RSPCA don't like them, and no one should judge a breed by the number of people bitten by them.

It's the owner not the breed thats the problem, ban the deed not the breed.

Breed identification is the biggest problem, if it's big and black, it's a Rottie. The general public can't tell one breed from another, yet these same people read some Media report and all call for the breed to be banned what a bloody joke.

Totally agree. We are members of Rottweiler Club of NSW, when ever we hear of an attack involving a Rottweiler we try and check if the dog was identified correctly, and find out some info on where & why etc. I can't tell you the number of times it was just a big black dog or a black dog with some tan. Some I've seen called a Rott could have been a min pin X.

There was one case where an attack was reported in the local paper and it turned out that it was actually a police dog with a crook held up but was reported Rottweiler attacked man at local shopping mall or something to that effect or a case of a Rottweiler reported attacking a women. When we looked into it the Rott owner was walking the dog on lead at night the women walking quickly around the corner nearly falling over the dog and the dog jumped at her, didn't touch her, didn't make a sound at her, the police weren't concerned but it was reported as an attack. Not to mention how many reported bites were people breaking up their own dog fights. So you really can't believe everything you read.

I think many things are being reported where in the past they weren't, dogs rushing, jumping at etc being reported. When I was a kid, myself and other kids I know were biten by dogs usually because of something dumb we did like jumping a fence to get a ball etc and most of the time the bite, nip wasn't reported. I know some attacked are very serious and don't compare but I just mention this to show some minor instances are more likely to be reported now than in the past. Are dogs really so much more likely to be dangerous now than in the past?, Is it because certain breeds became more popular with certain types of people that are more likely to be irresponsible? Lets face it for most councils it would be easier if nobody owned a dog, less noise complaints, Less neighbour disputes over dogs, you could cram more people into a space/housing if they didn't want a backyard for the dog etc. We need to show the benefits of owning dogs.

Many times we've contacted police about a rottweiler biting someone and when asked if they felt it was a Rott a lot of times the police have said who would know it was a cross. Many X's just can't be identified but because they look like something they are lumped in with that breed even if there isn't an once of evidence to say they are that breed or a x of that breed.

Where do you think it will stop? Get rid of the breed thought to be able to do more damage, so to speak, and then move onto the breeds that it is perceived don't fit in with the climate etc etc.

There are dogs in every breed that shouldn't be breed with due to temperament no matter how great in conformation they are, I have seen dogs in many breeds that I consider should be given the green dream (and I am a very passionate dog lover and hate to think of any dog being put down unless neccessary) but that doesn't mean every dog of that breed should be delt the same fate.

The average joe has so much trouble with identifying breeds or knowing what a breeds purpose was originally , still 5 and a half years since we now have tailed Rottweilers and the public still ask what breed are they, normally after they have been cuddling them and then nearly die of shock when you reply Rottweiler, sometimes dragging their kids away.

We had a lady call my Rottweiler male Cujo, I said no I believe Cujo was a Saint Bernard, she said oh Hooch then, I said no I think Hooch was a Douge, She kept saying names of big TV dogs of other breeds until she got the cranks with me correcting her and stormed off acting like I didn't know what breed my own dog was. Not to mention the reaction when you tell them a Rottweiler is a very old herding/carting breed (Butchers Dog)

I sometimes groom for vets and to this day they call me in to ask what breed do you think this is so how can we expect dogs to be identified correctly, which is beside the point anyway, a dog should be judged by it's own actions, owners need to be more responsible and stop putting their dogs in bad situations and breeders need to do everything they can to educate people about their breed and do everything possible to try and make sure puppies/dogs are correctly homed.

Dogs are dogs and think like dogs. If we want to be able to keep our dogs we need to stop fighting each other, join forces and show we can be responsible, try to teach others to be responsible and think of ways we can help keep our dogs safe and stop pretending that it doesn't matter if one breed is wiped out because your chosen breed could be next.

Maybe we could start by some of the different breed clubs, say bull breeds,Rotts etc putting their heads together and try working together to get some good PR stories out there etc as a start. For every bad news story we need to try and show the positive side to owning a dog, we need to try and make the media accountable that they are reporting facts and not hyped up fiction by using sensible approaches. Maybe a little bit of funding from these clubs put together and we could run good PR articles that would be too expensive for one small club to run on their own.

I'm not sure where to start but maybe we could come up with some constructive ideas together that could ensure our dogs have a future

Cheers Lee

Edited May 27, 2010 by rotts4ever

[Adnil444]

Sorry if this comes through twice. I had it already, bumped a key and everything disappeared. (don't know if it sent but couldn't see it on the boards, so am trying again) **I need new glasses for my glasses I think**

Anyway, Each quarter NSW Councils have to report to NSW Government (Companion Animals ACT) of ALL reported dog attacks.

A dog attack can include incident where a dog rushes at, attacks, bites , harasses or chases any person or animal (other than vermin), whether or not any injury is caused to the person or animal.

The reports for each quarter list the top 20 breeds involved in attacks.

From January 2009 to September 2009, the pit bull has NOT made the list even once!

The highest offender is UNKNOWN breed (muts) at 429 attacks.

Bull Terrier (Staffordshire)- 288 attacks.

Australian Cattle Dog- 158 attacks.

German Shepherd Dog- 137 attacks.

Bull Terrier (Staffordshire) X- 110 attacks.

American Staffordshire Terrier- 103 attacks.

Rottweiler- 91 attacks.

Australian Kelpie- 65 attacks.

Jack Russell Terrier- 63 attacks.

Labrador Retriever- 56 attacks.

Siberian Husky- 51 attacks.

Australian Cattle Dog X- 48 attacks.

Boxer- 47 attacks.

Mastiff X- 42 attacks.

Border Collie- 41 attacks.

Bull Mastiff- 28 attacks.

Alaskan Malamute- 27 attacks.

Australian Kelpie X- 26 attacks.

Rottweiler X- 14 attacks.

Mastiff- 14 attacks.

Bull Terrier- 12 attacks.

Bull Terrier X- 12 attacks.

Maltese- 12 attacks.

GSD X- 10 attacks.

Rhodesian Ridgeback- 10 attacks.

AST X- 9 attacks.

Great Dane- 9 attacks.

The dogs/breeds listed highest on the reports are mentioned on each quarter. These are the dogs/breeds attacking more often and regularly throughout the year.

I was thinking of checking each state (maybe someone from each state might like to check) and see what is reported on a state level.

If the pit cannot even make INTO the top 20 list (let alone to the TOP of the list) in three quarters of a year, then what is BSL based on???

Are they assuming that all the 'mut' unknown breeds that top the list might have some pit in them somwhere???

Believe me if they even had an OUNCE of 'thought' that one of those ''unknown breeds'' had even the slightest 'pit' in it,,it WOULD have been listed as a "APBT CROSS" on the list.

The FACT is, NOT ONE of any of the dogs listed above was shown/proven to have ANY APBT in it.

I know there ARE pit attacks in NSW,,,but not enough to warrant being on the "top 20 attacks list"

HOW will banning/killing/eliminating the APBT (types/crosses) have ANY effect on the "reported dog attacks' listed above??

HOW will the death/elimination of thousands of APBT stop the "unknown breed" attacking 429 times in 3/4 of a year???

Chicken noodle skooters people!!!! The Jack Russel and Maltese EVEN made the frigging list and the APBT didn't!!!!

Thinking time!!!

PS. I did recheck my adding up but my eyes are not the best. So if anyone wants to check my adding and/or just read up.

http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/dlg_...;mi=9&ml=10

Hope links work in here.

Hi Nannas, I'll be the devil's advocate here, but perhaps they will say BSL is working because there are no APBTs on the list - that banning them has succeeded they are no longer around (would be interested to find out what the unknown breeds are).

[chrisjc]

Sorry if this comes through twice. I had it already, bumped a key and everything disappeared. (don't know if it sent but couldn't see it on the boards, so am trying again) **I need new glasses for my glasses I think**

Anyway, Each quarter NSW Councils have to report to NSW Government (Companion Animals ACT) of ALL reported dog attacks.

A dog attack can include incident where a dog rushes at, attacks, bites , harasses or chases any person or animal (other than vermin), whether or not any injury is caused to the person or animal.

The reports for each quarter list the top 20 breeds involved in attacks.

From January 2009 to September 2009, the pit bull has NOT made the list even once!

The highest offender is UNKNOWN breed (muts) at 429 attacks.

Bull Terrier (Staffordshire)- 288 attacks.

Australian Cattle Dog- 158 attacks.

German Shepherd Dog- 137 attacks.

Bull Terrier (Staffordshire) X- 110 attacks.

American Staffordshire Terrier- 103 attacks.

Rottweiler- 91 attacks.

Australian Kelpie- 65 attacks.

Jack Russell Terrier- 63 attacks.

Labrador Retriever- 56 attacks.

Siberian Husky- 51 attacks.

Australian Cattle Dog X- 48 attacks.

Boxer- 47 attacks.

Mastiff X- 42 attacks.

Border Collie- 41 attacks.

Bull Mastiff- 28 attacks.

Alaskan Malamute- 27 attacks.

Australian Kelpie X- 26 attacks.

Rottweiler X- 14 attacks.

Mastiff- 14 attacks.

Bull Terrier- 12 attacks.

Bull Terrier X- 12 attacks.

Maltese- 12 attacks.

GSD X- 10 attacks.

Rhodesian Ridgeback- 10 attacks.

AST X- 9 attacks.

Great Dane- 9 attacks.

The dogs/breeds listed highest on the reports are mentioned on each quarter. These are the dogs/breeds attacking more often and regularly throughout the year.

I was thinking of checking each state (maybe someone from each state might like to check) and see what is reported on a state level.

If the pit cannot even make INTO the top 20 list (let alone to the TOP of the list) in three quarters of a year, then what is BSL based on???

Are they assuming that all the 'mut' unknown breeds that top the list might have some pit in them somwhere???

Believe me if they even had an OUNCE of 'thought' that one of those ''unknown breeds'' had even the slightest 'pit' in it,,it WOULD have been listed as a "APBT CROSS" on the list.

The FACT is, NOT ONE of any of the dogs listed above was shown/proven to have ANY APBT in it.

I know there ARE pit attacks in NSW,,,but not enough to warrant being on the "top 20 attacks list"

HOW will banning/killing/eliminating the APBT (types/crosses) have ANY effect on the "reported dog attacks' listed above??

HOW will the death/elimination of thousands of APBT stop the "unknown breed" attacking 429 times in 3/4 of a year???

Chicken noodle skooters people!!!! The Jack Russel and Maltese EVEN made the frigging list and the APBT didn't!!!!

Thinking time!!!

PS. I did recheck my adding up but my eyes are not the best. So if anyone wants to check my adding and/or just read up.

http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/dlg/dlghome/dlg_...;mi=9&ml=10

Hope links work in here.

Hi Nannas, I'll be the devil's advocate here, but perhaps they will say BSL is working because there are no APBTs on the list - that banning them has succeeded they are no longer around (would be interested to find out what the unknown breeds are).

that wouldnt make you the devils advocate at all, it would mean that you may be reading into the stats the way that you see fit. my stance on it is the fact that when have they ever been high on the list if in the list at all? they have never been a dog that allways shows up on such stats.

with your way of thinking we could also say that bsl is working because there are no presas on the list either, or tosas and we know that would be silly!

[Shaar]

And people wonder why others won't support their cause

I'll add a fresh perspective to this.

First let me say although this post may not sound like it, I DO NOT support BSL.

But, I have heard so many times from a lot of different people that if their breed was banned (completely banned) they would own one anyway (I'm talking about buying a new dog/puppy, not their current dog), they don't care about the LAW.

They disregard muzzling laws, or DD tags, or say they would walk their dog on the street even if it were banned, and who benefits from it? The owner for getting to keep their dog? What if you get CAUGHT???? Only the dog will suffer for it by being PTS. Boo-hoo you don't get to own a particular breed when they are banned. Get over it and actually think about the poor dog that is going to suffer because of YOUR stupidity.

I have heard of people deliberately registering their dog as another breed with the council ie: Pitt bull registered as a Lab X Boxer or something unbelievable.

Now this business with registering your dog as another breed with the ANKC just takes the cake!!!

Seriously, take a step back and look at yourselves.

I don't like BSL, but I'm thinking I really don't want to support people who lie, cheat and scam... I don't care if you think you are doing it for the dogs... you AREN'T!

FIGHT BSL, try and stop it, or try to get bans and restrictions lifted, but don't go being an idiot and destroying your dog by buying one after a ban has been put in place. And certainly don't advertise the fact... have you ever thought that someone lobbying FOR BSL might read something like this?

I'm not targeting anyone in particular, more letting off some frustration from about 3 different forums I have heard this same thing on! (except the ridiculous ANKC scam)

From reading this I know there are only a few here who would consider it, so all the sensible people please disregard my post.

/end of rant

[geo]

And people wonder why others won't support their cause

I'll add a fresh perspective to this.

First let me say although this post may not sound like it, I DO NOT support BSL.

But, I have heard so many times from a lot of different people that if their breed was banned (completely banned) they would own one anyway (I'm talking about buying a new dog/puppy, not their current dog), they don't care about the LAW.

They disregard muzzling laws, or DD tags, or say they would walk their dog on the street even if it were banned, and who benefits from it? The owner for getting to keep their dog? What if you get CAUGHT???? Only the dog will suffer for it by being PTS. Boo-hoo you don't get to own a particular breed when they are banned. Get over it and actually think about the poor dog that is going to suffer because of YOUR stupidity.

I have heard of people deliberately registering their dog as another breed with the council ie: Pitt bull registered as a Lab X Boxer or something unbelievable.

Now this business with registering your dog as another breed with the ANKC just takes the cake!!!

Seriously, take a step back and look at yourselves.

I don't like BSL, but I'm thinking I really don't want to support people who lie, cheat and scam... I don't care if you think you are doing it for the dogs... you AREN'T!

FIGHT BSL, try and stop it, or try to get bans and restrictions lifted, but don't go being an idiot and destroying your dog by buying one after a ban has been put in place. And certainly don't advertise the fact... have you ever thought that someone lobbying FOR BSL might read something like this?

I'm not targeting anyone in particular, more letting off some frustration from about 3 different forums I have heard this same thing on! (except the ridiculous ANKC scam)

From reading this I know there are only a few here who would consider it, so all the sensible people please disregard my post.

/end of rant

Many of the people on this forum probably aren't doing the wrong thing....

I understand your rant but playing devils advocate, why should people follow draconian rule if they feel it's wrong? why make a dog wear a muzzle if it's not been proved dangerous?

by not getting a pitbull would we be condoning their reasons for banning them? will we just be following their reasoning until they say ok BSL was totally wrong we're going to do something about it and you can all once again own pitbulls etc.., oh yeah sorry about all the dead ones..!

Sadly the people doing the wrong thing are the people that don't care, and aren't lobbying against BSL, the long term owners of apbt's aren't going to change their chosen breed because of the law, they're not going to give up their pet to be PTS because the council says they're dangerous in this state but they're not in the next..?

Do you think that all amstaff (any breed) owners would obide by the law should they be outlawed? i think not, and i personally will not blame them one bit.

Getting caught well that's another story, again the people doing the wrong thing like flaunting their dog or letting it escape or get into trouble will get caught, those who're well versed and keep their dogs well contained may get away with having a great dog for a long time.

[Shaar]

If you followed that line of thinking then I could go sit in the middle of town today spark up a joint, clean my gun, and dance around naked. It's against the law but who cares? I like being naked.

It doesn't matter how silly you think the law is, my point is that it is still the law, and it's only the dog that suffers if you don't follow it.

by not getting a pitbull would we be condoning their reasons for banning them? will we just be following their reasoning until they say ok BSL was totally wrong we're going to do something about it and you can all once again own pitbulls etc.., oh yeah sorry about all the dead ones..!

When did I say anything about dead ones?

I said any one BUYING A NEW puppy or Pit, not people who already own adult ones. If you buy a new puppy from a Backyard Breeder AFTER the bans are put in place then you get no sympathy from me when they take your dog away. Only the DOG will get sympathy for having such an idiotic uncaring owner.

This should be all the more reason to fight BSL, not say you are going to ignore it if they put it in place.

If that's the case then why bother trying to fight it at all if it doesn't mean anything to you.

If Chinese Cresteds were banned (although that seems unlikley) I would have to abide by the law. Yeah sure I would be very p*ssed off about it and kick up a fuss but I would NOT buy another one and put its life at risk.

EDIT - Oh, and I know the majority of the people on here are and would always do the right thing... it's just been a general observation over several forums. The same statements keep popping up. Who knows, might even be the same people on each forum.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Shaar

[geo]

If you followed that line of thinking then I could go sit in the middle of town today spark up a joint, clean my gun, and dance around naked. It's against the law but who cares? I like being naked.

It doesn't matter how silly you think the law is, my point is that it is still the law, and it's only the dog that suffers if you don't follow it.

by not getting a pitbull would we be condoning their reasons for banning them? will we just be following their reasoning until they say ok BSL was totally wrong we're going to do something about it and you can all once again own pitbulls etc.., oh yeah sorry about all the dead ones..!

When did I say anything about dead ones?

I said any one BUYING A NEW puppy or Pit, not people who already own adult ones. If you buy a new puppy from a Backyard Breeder AFTER the bans are put in place then you get no sympathy from me when they take your dog away. Only the DOG will get sympathy for having such an idiotic uncaring owner.

This should be all the more reason to fight BSL, not say you are going to ignore it if they put it in place.

If that's the case then why bother trying to fight it at all if it doesn't mean anything to you.

If Chinese Cresteds were banned (although that seems unlikley) I would have to abide by the law. Yeah sure I would be very p*ssed off about it and kick up a fuss but I would NOT buy another one and put its life at risk.

EDIT - Oh, and I know the majority of the people on here are and would always do the right thing... it's just been a general observation over several forums. The same statements keep popping up. Who knows, might even be the same people on each forum.

I wasn't having a dig at your reasoning, just imagining why people do things..

BYB pits will be born with or without the buyers as the people that do it don't have anyone elses interests but their own. and the pups suffer with or without BSL, if someone can provide space, love, training and keep their pitbull contained and prevent it from any negative news etc.. i have no problem with it especially if it's been rescued.

[Shaar]

There is a fine line between 'rescued' and 'bought' sometimes. People often think that buying a puppy because it is in a horrible situation with a 'breeder' is saving it... but really, you are just lining the backyard breeders pockets for the next litter.

It's a vicious cycle, and I do agree with you that BYBs will always be around. I just think that we should do anything and everything to stop them.

I know quite a few people who have bought from pet stores just because the puppy "looked so sad". Yes, that puppy has a new home, a new life, but it just made way for another one to go in the shop window.

I hope you get my reasoning, I know not everyone has the same opinion, that's fine. This is just how I feel.

[OzPit]

And people wonder why others won't support their cause

I'll add a fresh perspective to this.

First let me say although this post may not sound like it, I DO NOT support BSL.

But, I have heard so many times from a lot of different people that if their breed was banned (completely banned) they would own one anyway (I'm talking about buying a new dog/puppy, not their current dog), they don't care about the LAW.

They disregard muzzling laws, or DD tags, or say they would walk their dog on the street even if it were banned, and who benefits from it? The owner for getting to keep their dog? What if you get CAUGHT???? Only the dog will suffer for it by being PTS. Boo-hoo you don't get to own a particular breed when they are banned. Get over it and actually think about the poor dog that is going to suffer because of YOUR stupidity.

I have heard of people deliberately registering their dog as another breed with the council ie: Pitt bull registered as a Lab X Boxer or something unbelievable.

Now this business with registering your dog as another breed with the ANKC just takes the cake!!!

Seriously, take a step back and look at yourselves.

I don't like BSL, but I'm thinking I really don't want to support people who lie, cheat and scam... I don't care if you think you are doing it for the dogs... you AREN'T!

FIGHT BSL, try and stop it, or try to get bans and restrictions lifted, but don't go being an idiot and destroying your dog by buying one after a ban has been put in place. And certainly don't advertise the fact... have you ever thought that someone lobbying FOR BSL might read something like this?

I'm not targeting anyone in particular, more letting off some frustration from about 3 different forums I have heard this same thing on! (except the ridiculous ANKC scam)

From reading this I know there are only a few here who would consider it, so all the sensible people please disregard my post.

/end of rant

I understand your point. But. If I were to go out tomorrow and find a reputable (though obviously not registered) APBT (yes there are reputable breeders still out there, protecting and continuing their lines), I can. That's not to say it is legal, but I can. And in NSW, if I do that, and register my dog as what it is (an APBT), and comply with the regs, then my dog is not at risk of being destroyed. I may be at risk of a big fine for illegally buying one, but if the dog is contained and managed according to the legislation, then the dog is safe.

I always say this. If you want an APBT, fine, go and get one. But register it as what it is. And comply with the laws. They're not that unbearable, really. If the laws are complied with, then the dog is safe. And that should be the first concern of anybody considering buying an APBT - "Can I keep this dog safe?" If they can't, they shouldn't get one.