Decided To Check Nsw Dog Attacks

[sandgrubber]

Decided To Check Nsw Dog Attacks 123» 7 Proving BSL is based on rubbish!

Such is the title of this thread. I don't think the seven pages of discussion has proved that BSL is rubbish. Maybe not successful; maybe not the best way to prevent dog attacks. But it's hard to dispute that some dogs have been bred to be DA/HA, and some drongos seek out dogs that go for the neck.

I think those who don't like BSL should focus on how to control the idiots who, on hearing of a vicious dog attack, decide to go out and get one of that breed cause they think vicious is cool. [My preference would be castration, but that's not PC].

[justin19801]

Most people who claim to own APBTs don't know their dogs bloodlines so it is impossible to know if they came from game tested stock. Even if they did the gameness would be lost unless continually selected for. APBT owners simply own a dog.

Supporters of BSL are the ones who have a case to answer in relation to status dogs; as they are the ones who have encouraged irresponsible owners. But why should they care, BSL doesn't affect their breed of choice ... YET!!!

[Jed]

Whilst the glorification of fighting dogs persists on forums etc, the bans have no hope of being overturned.

Who glorifies fighting dogs? Caricatures are next in line for dog control measures a la PDE doco. As I've already explained, BSL isn't about the dogs, it's about the owners. The UK is reviewing the DDA and could see massive changes there, and b4 we know it, here as well.

You glorify fighting dogs, for one. And so do many other people who come to this forum.

You vilify the quiet easy pitbulls, the ones owned by families, the ones who starred in movies, and were owned by movie stars and US presidents, who did no harm. It is the quiet easy pitbulls and thousands of dogs who are brown and medium sized, who are put to death, the fighters are never seen.

But the RSPCA aka PETA is happy

If by "caricatures" you mean Staffordshire Bull Terriers, they are not about to be included in BSL.

Maybe later. I notice the SMH is targetting them now.

However, as all dog breeds will be decimated in due course, SBT will be too.

[Jed]

Decided To Check Nsw Dog Attacks 123» 7 Proving BSL is based on rubbish!

Such is the title of this thread. I don't think the seven pages of discussion has proved that BSL is rubbish. Maybe not successful; maybe not the best way to prevent dog attacks. But it's hard to dispute that some dogs have been bred to be DA/HA, and some drongos seek out dogs that go for the neck.

I think those who don't like BSL should focus on how to control the idiots who, on hearing of a vicious dog attack, decide to go out and get one of that breed cause they think vicious is cool. [My preference would be castration, but that's not PC].

You ought to read the forum too - particularly the archives. This has also been done to death. It is not only pitbull owners who behave like this, it is some owners of all breeds and crossbreeds.

thousands of pitbulls were going about their business, doing no harm to anyone.

Until govs abandon BSL and enact existing legislation regarding DD, there will be no change in the stats, as there has never been any change; because BSL is a flawed premise. Draconian at best, totally unworkable at best.

Labelling 90% of the dogs which attack as "pitbulls" might be good press, but it's hardly truthful.

[chrisjc]

hilarious. im sorry as ive missed a few pages i will try to address different posts with a short paragraph each i hope i can keep it short.!

The AST , SBT, and the APBT are not the "same breed" maybee at some stage a very long time ago, but not any more.

it is very ill-informed to make such a claim. i guess that would mean that and english mastiff and a bull mastiff are the same dog also? and poodles and miniture poodles are exactly the same too?

i dont see anyone here who claims to own an APBT to glorify dog fighting , if glorifying is knowing the history and past of my chosen breed then im guilty your honour. you would be the same kind of people who would acusse me of dogfighting because i own a treadmill and a breaking stick.

And who realy cares if its been done to death? at the end of the day if your getting bored or sick of the"same bsl threads" DONT READ THEM, the great thing is, you have that choice.

and simply having conversations and the such with "purebred breeders and show people" will always bring you down ,they have their own egos to stroke. one example is someone who always posts up on these threads and even has a couple of times on this one, very typical in fact ive never ever seen that poster ever write a single positive post in any of the threads on bsl, is more worried in the world knowing , "its not my fault its the pitbull owners" Well DUH.

thanks for the hot tip.

[justin19801]

hilarious. im sorry as ive missed a few pages i will try to address different posts with a short paragraph each i hope i can keep it short.!

The AST , SBT, and the APBT are not the "same breed" maybee at some stage a very long time ago, but not any more.

it is very ill-informed to make such a claim. i guess that would mean that and english mastiff and a bull mastiff are the same dog also? and poodles and miniture poodles are exactly the same too?

i dont see anyone here who claims to own an APBT to glorify dog fighting , if glorifying is knowing the history and past of my chosen breed then im guilty your honour. you would be the same kind of people who would acusse me of dogfighting because i own a treadmill and a breaking stick.

And who realy cares if its been done to death? at the end of the day if your getting bored or sick of the"same bsl threads" DONT READ THEM, the great thing is, you have that choice.

and simply having conversations and the such with "purebred breeders and show people" will always bring you down ,they have their own egos to stroke. one example is someone who always posts up on these threads and even has a couple of times on this one, very typical in fact ive never ever seen that poster ever write a single positive post in any of the threads on bsl, is more worried in the world knowing , "its not my fault its the pitbull owners" Well DUH.

thanks for the hot tip.

Touche, ouch!!! Except for the SBT, AST and APBT not being the same breed. IMO they are. I won't bore people by rehashing the reasons why but simply say Aust & NZ are the only countries in the world who say they're not the same. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

[chrisjc]

i see said the blind man. there isnt a single registry world wide who will reg one dog as all three. that speaks for itself. there wouldnt be one owner out there who is passionate about their selected breed who would say such a claim.

I could put money on it that SBT123 would be highly offended if you were to label one of their Staffords a pitbull.

i would be just as offended if you were to label my APBT[who i can trace back too the late 1800's and their are no staffords or amstaffs in there] a stafford or a amstaff.

and i suppose them all being the same,makes me an idiot i should have just got myself a stafford and saved the trouble of all the laws ive had to follow in order to keep my APBT's all these years.

misinformed people like your self help bring all three breeds down and together when there is some poor child attacked and all three dogs are lumped into the same type and name "pitbull" then the media loving public starts think they are all the same.

calling them the same dog would more than likely cancel out opinions the said person has with anyone who owns one of the three breeds, and realy anyone who has done any real homework.

so yeah i guess im more than happyt to "agree to disagree".

[justin19801]

i see said the blind man. there isnt a single registry world wide who will reg one dog as all three. that speaks for itself. there wouldnt be one owner out there who is passionate about their selected breed who would say such a claim.

I could put money on it that SBT123 would be highly offended if you were to label one of their Staffords a pitbull.

i would be just as offended if you were to label my APBT[who i can trace back too the late 1800's and their are no staffords or amstaffs in there] a stafford or a amstaff.

and i suppose them all being the same,makes me an idiot i should have just got myself a stafford and saved the trouble of all the laws ive had to follow in order to keep my APBT's all these years.

misinformed people like your self help bring all three breeds down and together when there is some poor child attacked and all three dogs are lumped into the same type and name "pitbull" then the media loving public starts think they are all the same.

calling them the same dog would more than likely cancel out opinions the said person has with anyone who owns one of the three breeds, and realy anyone who has done any real homework.

so yeah i guess im more than happyt to "agree to disagree".

ASTs and APBTs are dual registered in the States, every 30 years due to the small gene pool and serious genetic problems AKC opens it's stud books to APBTs, I guess that's coz their the same breed? But then I could be wrong. Until the 1970s SBTs and ASTs were inter bred between KC and AKC dogs. Again coz they're the same. Dogfighters such as Pete Sparkes who was a breeder more than a fighter interbred all three and complained when people called them different breeds. All three can be traced back, if you have papers which I assume you have, to SBTs imported by Colby et al. ADBA issues APBT papers for Australian registered ASTs if they can trace their pedigrees back to AST imports.

Ontario, Denver and every other municipipality and country that bans them except Aust & NZ call them the same breed. The UK calls ASTs and APBTs the same breed. Everywhere else where people have tried to differentiate them has failed because they are the same breed. Only a tiny fraction of the breed has been abused by dogfighters. They are just dogs. Visually different strains within the breed/s are impossible to differentiate. The stds used to judge, depending on the club and fashion, results in differing looks, but they still vary enormously. Longer-legged KC registered SBT are known as Irish Staffies. All this is not rocket science, just plain fact. Authors more knowledgeable than you or I such as Gordon call the SBT a Pit Bull! Two English owners couldn't believe what they saw in the showring here were the same breed as what they had in the UK. Photos of their dogs showed dogs slightly smaller than APBTs.

Rather than navel gazing and pretending they each have something no one else has we should be accepting reality and uniting to fight BSL, because it's proponents are our enemies, not who considers the uniqueness or otherwise of their breed. Most dogs being killed by ACOs and animal rights orgs are in fact SBT crosses. Most status dogs which the UK government is moving against are again, SBT crosses labelled as APBT-type. The SBT is also now in the medias cross hairs here. We are being picked off one by one while we fail to accept reality.

We can agree to disagree but the dogs are the losers.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, please cite. I am more than happy to be convinced otherwise.

[TessiesTracey]

i see said the blind man. there isnt a single registry world wide who will reg one dog as all three. that speaks for itself. there wouldnt be one owner out there who is passionate about their selected breed who would say such a claim.

I could put money on it that SBT123 would be highly offended if you were to label one of their Staffords a pitbull.

i would be just as offended if you were to label my APBT[who i can trace back too the late 1800's and their are no staffords or amstaffs in there] a stafford or a amstaff.

and i suppose them all being the same,makes me an idiot i should have just got myself a stafford and saved the trouble of all the laws ive had to follow in order to keep my APBT's all these years.

misinformed people like your self help bring all three breeds down and together when there is some poor child attacked and all three dogs are lumped into the same type and name "pitbull" then the media loving public starts think they are all the same.

calling them the same dog would more than likely cancel out opinions the said person has with anyone who owns one of the three breeds, and realy anyone who has done any real homework.

so yeah i guess im more than happyt to "agree to disagree".

ASTs and APBTs are dual registered in the States, every 30 years due to the small gene pool and serious genetic problems AKC opens it's stud books to APBTs, I guess that's coz their the same breed? But then I could be wrong. Until the 1970s SBTs and ASTs were inter bred between KC and AKC dogs. Again coz they're the same. Dogfighters such as Pete Sparkes who was a breeder more than a fighter interbred all three and complained when people called them different breeds. All three can be traced back, if you have papers which I assume you have, to SBTs imported by Colby et al. ADBA issues APBT papers for Australian registered ASTs if they can trace their pedigrees back to AST imports.

Ontario, Denver and every other municipipality and country that bans them except Aust & NZ call them the same breed. The UK calls ASTs and APBTs the same breed. Everywhere else where people have tried to differentiate them has failed because they are the same breed. Only a tiny fraction of the breed has been abused by dogfighters. They are just dogs. Visually different strains within the breed/s are impossible to differentiate. The stds used to judge, depending on the club and fashion, results in differing looks, but they still vary enormously. Longer-legged KC registered SBT are known as Irish Staffies. All this is not rocket science, just plain fact. Authors more knowledgeable than you or I such as Gordon call the SBT a Pit Bull! Two English owners couldn't believe what they saw in the showring here were the same breed as what they had in the UK. Photos of their dogs showed dogs slightly smaller than APBTs.

Rather than navel gazing and pretending they each have something no one else has we should be accepting reality and uniting to fight BSL, because it's proponents are our enemies, not who considers the uniqueness or otherwise of their breed. Most dogs being killed by ACOs and animal rights orgs are in fact SBT crosses. Most status dogs which the UK government is moving against are again, SBT crosses labelled as APBT-type. The SBT is also now in the medias cross hairs here. We are being picked off one by one while we fail to accept reality.

We can agree to disagree but the dogs are the losers.

If you have any evidence to the contrary, please cite. I am more than happy to be convinced otherwise.

Do what????????

Long legged KC registered SBT's in the UK are NOT known as irish staffies. Where did you get THAT information? lol

Long legged NON registered SBT's are often referred to by NUMPTIES as irish staffies, but that's about it.

The UK calls ASTs and APBTs the same breed.

Yes, they would lump them AND cross bred Staffords who look to be of 'type' - pit bull type, under the seriously flawed DDA 1991.

[TessiesTracey]

The Kennel Club does not recognise "Irish Staffies", they recognise the Staffordshire Bull Terrier only.

So can someone tell me what a "working Stafford " is ?

Irish staffies are KC registered SBTs which are bred longer in the leg and used by dogfighters in Ireland. The dogs have KC papers and are safe from BSL. As usual most are simply family pets. I assume that's what APBT means by working stafford. The show staffie is too short in the leg to be a working breed of any sort. In fact staffie owners from the UK find Aussie staffies impossible to be the same breed as the UK staffie, which of course they are. Many (not all thankfully) are a caricature of the old english pit bull.

Off topic, when does one use the terms Staffy, Staffie, Staff or Stafford? Are they interchangeable? I use them interchngably but some people claim there is a difference but can't explain what it is.

oh my dear dog, I've read it all now.

Quite!

[chrisjc]

i very much doubt that the dogs the colbys obtained were called SBT's and i doubt even more so that they were reg dogs. the colbys would take dogs that had hand written peds, as the linage of the top pit dogs were closely gaurded generally by families and different families developed their own blood. there is only two registrys in the states who will dual reg the dogs and from what you may call "the apbt fraternity" it is highly frowned upon and besides the people dual reg their stock no one wants anything to do with it. the only other reg places dualing dogs are hardly to be respected by the majority as they are American Bully, registries who are renowned for out crossing the APBT for the frame and the amstaffs or even mastiffs to get the results they want and they call the bullies "pure" they are hardly worth counting realy.

the irish staffords have little to nothing to do with the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

Irish staff is a name given to the APBT once the laws became to heavy so they changed the name and it worked for a few years. to my knowledge there isnt any reputable registries, for the irish staff and the only ones would more than likely be run by dog fighters.

so that cancels them out of it.

for instance my dogs ped has never had as far back as i can trace [over 100 years] an american staff in there, in fact even over the short time that i have a few older colby dogs in her ped none of them are close enough related to even pretend they were Amstaff. the Colbys helped the kennel club involved by supplying six dogs to start the "type" of dogs they wanted to break off from the dog fighting and the main dog who was classed as the perfect "type" was Colby's Primo.

that is were the similarities stop, the gene pool that Louis Colbys father had helped start was kept seperate from the Apbt's they had in their program and neither have been crossed into each other again even to this day onld Lou's yard.

All of this info is readilly availible in Louis Colbys book.

the breeds you have mentioned as all the same , in the eyes of the people who make these bs bsl laws have a "type" which they call a "pitbull" and yes the breeds you say are they same are of the same "type" and there are a few other breeds including the boxer and the ebt. id hardly call either of them a "pitbull"

Louis and John P Colby also had a fair hand in helping set the breed standard for the Boston Terrier, when they were first emerging as a pure bred dog. in fact alot of the dogs that were selected for the genepool ,had what i call an APBT but Lou calls "Bulldogs" in their liniage. would that mean that because way back then they had those bulldogs in their history we can lump them into the same pile as the SBT, AST and APBT.

i would think the opinions of someone who pretty much started the breed as a more reliable source than a illinformed poitician who finds it easier to lump them in the same pile simply because they were not educated enough to be able to tell the difference with their own eyes.

and if you real realy want to hear it from the horses mouth, check out the Colby's webite colby bulldogs, as lou is very active to this day and as much as it may take him a while he makes a full effort in returning Emails.

[WreckitWhippet]

There still seems to be much confusion about the AST and the APBT being the same and dual registered.

The American Kennel Club recognises only the American Staffordshire Terrier, it accepts for registration only those dogs and bitches that are born from AKC registered parents, the AKC does not accept Pit Bulls onto their register.

You can however take your AKC registered American Staffordshire Terrier and apply for registration at some of the registries that basically register anything on four legs, regarldess or parentage and have no credibility.

You cannot take an American Pit Bull Terrier and register is as an American Staffordshire Terrier on any credible registry in the world. Anyone who tells you that they have a dual registered American Pit Bull Terrier is an idiot and have no idea what they are on about and one wonders why you'd bother to take your AKC dog and dual register it as a Pit Bull, given the current BSL climate.

[justin19801]

i very much doubt that the dogs the colbys obtained were called SBT's and i doubt even more so that they were reg dogs. the colbys would take dogs that had hand written peds, as the linage of the top pit dogs were closely gaurded generally by families and different families developed their own blood. there is only two registrys in the states who will dual reg the dogs and from what you may call "the apbt fraternity" it is highly frowned upon and besides the people dual reg their stock no one wants anything to do with it. the only other reg places dualing dogs are hardly to be respected by the majority as they are American Bully, registries who are renowned for out crossing the APBT for the frame and the amstaffs or even mastiffs to get the results they want and they call the bullies "pure" they are hardly worth counting realy.

the irish staffords have little to nothing to do with the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

Irish staff is a name given to the APBT once the laws became to heavy so they changed the name and it worked for a few years. to my knowledge there isnt any reputable registries, for the irish staff and the only ones would more than likely be run by dog fighters.

so that cancels them out of it.

for instance my dogs ped has never had as far back as i can trace [over 100 years] an american staff in there, in fact even over the short time that i have a few older colby dogs in her ped none of them are close enough related to even pretend they were Amstaff. the Colbys helped the kennel club involved by supplying six dogs to start the "type" of dogs they wanted to break off from the dog fighting and the main dog who was classed as the perfect "type" was Colby's Primo.

that is were the similarities stop, the gene pool that Louis Colbys father had helped start was kept seperate from the Apbt's they had in their program and neither have been crossed into each other again even to this day onld Lou's yard.

All of this info is readilly availible in Louis Colbys book.

the breeds you have mentioned as all the same , in the eyes of the people who make these bs bsl laws have a "type" which they call a "pitbull" and yes the breeds you say are they same are of the same "type" and there are a few other breeds including the boxer and the ebt. id hardly call either of them a "pitbull"

Louis and John P Colby also had a fair hand in helping set the breed standard for the Boston Terrier, when they were first emerging as a pure bred dog. in fact alot of the dogs that were selected for the genepool ,had what i call an APBT but Lou calls "Bulldogs" in their liniage. would that mean that because way back then they had those bulldogs in their history we can lump them into the same pile as the SBT, AST and APBT.

i would think the opinions of someone who pretty much started the breed as a more reliable source than a illinformed poitician who finds it easier to lump them in the same pile simply because they were not educated enough to be able to tell the difference with their own eyes.

and if you real realy want to hear it from the horses mouth, check out the Colby's webite colby bulldogs, as lou is very active to this day and as much as it may take him a while he makes a full effort in returning Emails.

I don't disagree with much of what you say. However to save repeating myself and not wanting to get into an arguement we'll just have to agree to disagree. We should be exerting our energies into fighting BSL. The dogs are voiceless in this climate of hate and rely on us to defend them not bicker amongst ourselves. The powers that be see them all as the same breed and want to extend BSL to cover all three which they will eventually succeed unless we can stop them by opposing and denying support to it's proponents.

[tybrax]

We should be exerting our energies into fighting BSL.

;) ;) ;) tybrax

[doit4thedogz]

Whilst the glorification of fighting dogs persists on forums etc, the bans have no hope of being overturned.

Bans or No bans, the APBT will always be around and those who love them will always own them.

That sort of comment does your cause no favours either. Those with influence and those who make the decisions care very little for talk like that.

Once again i here what your saying, But its just reality, do you really think the APBT will become extinct because there is a ban on them?

I agree, nothing about the breed will change. So why bother with it at all. However BSL might change i.e. more restirctions and bans.

[doit4thedogz]

nothings gonna change with the breed. If you dont like the restrictions, negative image, discrimminations. etc. Tough luck, deal with it or get another breed.

[Jed]

Ths GSD was never attacked as the APBT has been. It was more of a fear of dogs breeeding with dingoes to produce a super wolf. It all sounds so silly now. The fact BSL was overturned was because Don Chip the Minister for Customs was apparently involved with the breed.

The Schutz breeds have escaped BSL as it is virtually non-existenent as a canine sport in Australia. This is coupled with the fact when a Rotti kills a child as in Melbourne in 2008 the APBT is blamed!!!! And BSL strengthened. Unfortunately this leads to further dog attacks as APBTs are dangerous and that makes all other breeds safe. How many people even remember that the APBT was banned from importation when an English Bull Terrier killed a child in Sydney? I'm told Hugh Wirth owned one at the time and was why he moved against the APBT, though I have never found any positive proof Tigger (I think was his name) was an EBT.

The GSD was greatly demonised. In country areas it was banned because of the fear of matings with dingoes (which did in fact happen) creating super sheep killers, but also because it was feared that the GSD itself would kill sheep. The ban on GSD was a ban on importation, and a shire by shire ban on ownership of the dogs. I don't believe there was any restrictions on owning them in metropolitan areas, but no, they were not treated as badly as APBT was. GSD were believed by the public to be very savage.

Banning schutzhund in Aust may seem like a very nearsighted decision to devotees, but in fact, it does help keep the breeds traditionally involved from charges of "dangerous, savage".

Any dog which attacks may be labelled a pit bull, and usually is. I notice not as often now the bans are securely in place. Whilst the bans were being enacted, every dog which bit anyone or anything, was labelled a "pitbull", even if it was 10cm tall and black.

It seems to me the reason why more and different breeds are being named in dog attacks, is so that further bans can be enacted in the future

When Mrs Stringer was attacked and killed in Toowoomba Q, the headline should have read 'LABRADOR CROSS KILLS WOMAN' - NOT 'pitbull' etc.

sandgrubber

That said: it's a spectacular PR feat, given the attack statistics, and the relatively low ambiguity about what dog is a Rotti, that Rottweilers aren't at the forefront of BSL

The pitbull was chosen for intial breed specific bans because it is not supported by FCI, ANKC, or AKC. It was numerically small, and it had a history which leant towards demonising by the media. Because it was numberically smaller than the rottweiler, there would not be the protests from the public, owners, etc. there would have been if the rottweiler had been chosen

Edited March 12, 2010 by Jed

[Longcoat]

Ths GSD was never attacked as the APBT has been. It was more of a fear of dogs breeeding with dingoes to produce a super wolf. It all sounds so silly now. The fact BSL was overturned was because Don Chip the Minister for Customs was apparently involved with the breed.

The Schutz breeds have escaped BSL as it is virtually non-existenent as a canine sport in Australia. This is coupled with the fact when a Rotti kills a child as in Melbourne in 2008 the APBT is blamed!!!! And BSL strengthened. Unfortunately this leads to further dog attacks as APBTs are dangerous and that makes all other breeds safe. How many people even remember that the APBT was banned from importation when an English Bull Terrier killed a child in Sydney? I'm told Hugh Wirth owned one at the time and was why he moved against the APBT, though I have never found any positive proof Tigger (I think was his name) was an EBT.

The GSD was greatly demonised. In country areas it was banned because of the fear of matings with dingoes (which did in fact happen) creating super sheep killers, but also because it was feared that the GSD itself would kill sheep. The ban on GSD was a ban on importation, and a shire by shire ban on ownership of the dogs. I don't believe there was any restrictions on owning them in metropolitan areas, but no, they were not treated as badly as APBT was. GSD were believed by the public to be very savage.

Banning schutzhund in Aust may seem like a very nearsighted decision to devotees, but in fact, it does help keep the breeds traditionally involved from charges of "dangerous, savage".

Any dog which attacks may be labelled a pit bull, and usually is. I notice not as often now the bans are securely in place. Whilst the bans were being enacted, every dog which bit anyone or anything, was labelled a "pitbull", even if it was 10cm tall and black.

It seems to me the reason why more and different breeds are being named in dog attacks, is so that further bans can be enacted in the future

When Mrs Stringer was attacked and killed in Toowoomba Q, the headline should have read 'LABRADOR CROSS KILLS WOMAN' - NOT 'pitbull' etc.

sandgrubber

That said: it's a spectacular PR feat, given the attack statistics, and the relatively low ambiguity about what dog is a Rotti, that Rottweilers aren't at the forefront of BSL

The pitbull was chosen for intial breed specific bans because it is not supported by FCI, ANKC, or AKC. It was numerically small, and it had a history which leant towards demonising by the media. Because it was numberically smaller than the rottweiler, there would not be the protests from the public, owners, etc. there would have been if the rottweiler had been chosen

Jed, Schutzhund isn't banned in Australia at all, only in Victoria which in time will be hopefully overturned. In fact it's not Schutzhund titled GSD's that bite people, it's the non titled non tested breeding practices creating faulty temperament GSD's that appear on the bite statistics. Fear biting nerve bag GSD's who can't determine the difference between friend and foe are the GSD's who attack and bite people, not GSD's of sound temperament and nerve that Schutzhund testing confirms. I can't recall how many kids, there has been so many that have referred to my GSD as a "police dog", and most people are fully aware that GSD's are working dogs of a guardian breed and can be trained in protection. You could hardly say that banning Schutzhund removes the stigma of visciousness from the breed when every police K9 unit has them along with every second K9 security officer seen on the street??? Only the best of temperaments with the highest proven and tested obedience levels in Schutzhund get near a bite sleeve. You can't roll up to a Schutzhund club with any mouldy old GSD to do bite work for using to attack people, and the public including you Jed who know nothing about Schutzhund should learn about the sport before passing silly judgements :cool:

[sandgrubber]

Jed states: "When Mrs Stringer was attacked and killed in Toowoomba Q, the headline should have read 'LABRADOR CROSS KILLS WOMAN' - NOT 'pitbull' etc."

I have never hear of Mrs Stringer (I only move do to Oz in 1996) and nothing I can come up with using Google says Labrador Cross .. . I do come up with some "not pit-bull" statements.

Can you give better references?

ok . . . no bites. Is "labrador" just being used figuratively as the epitomy of a dog not thought to be aggressive? Seem to remember a doco that said APBT dogs bred specifically for fighting were exported in the EU by labeling them as Labrador X boxer.

Edited March 14, 2010 by sandgrubber

[Longcoat]

Whilst the glorification of fighting dogs persists on forums etc, the bans have no hope of being overturned.

Bans or No bans, the APBT will always be around and those who love them will always own them.

That sort of comment does your cause no favours either. Those with influence and those who make the decisions care very little for talk like that.

Once again i here what your saying, But its just reality, do you really think the APBT will become extinct because there is a ban on them?

I think that in time, the only bull breeds that you will be able to own without restriction, will be those with ANKC papers.

That is what the APBT supporters should be working on IMO. If the authorities want papers, it's not hard to organise papered breedings to satisfy the requirement.