hopenfox Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Can anyone suggest how I can wean my dog's off me walking towards them to get them to walk back? They'll now walk backwards to about 1.5mtrs from me, then stop and seem to have no idea what I want next! They'll only continue to walk back if I then step forward towards them again. How can increase the distance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all that glitters Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I do the backwards another way, I make her stay stand and then I go behind her and say "reverse" and she will back up til she ends up between my legs! that way she's coming towards me herself, and not me going towards her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prydenjoy Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I've just started this one with Berri, he kind of zig zags all over the place across the room, we haven't perfected a straight line yet! Have you added a cue? I guess if they have a cue you could give them a little reminder when they are just about to reach their maximum distance to keep them going. Or, count their steps, do the variable reinforcement on the higher end of the number of steps you think they will take, and then just work it up one step at a time, if you work slowley enough they should catch on sooner or later. My biggest shaping problem is that I like to hurry things along to quickly, but patience is a virtue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopenfox Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Hi Jeanne, I use a hand signal and say "back, back, back" as the cue. I start with the dog standing in front, then give him/her the cue/s, then they walk backwards in a pretty straight line for about 1.5 metres then stop (I'm still giving the cue) and look at me. If I then give them the cue again, they tilt their heads and look at me in confusion, then start offering other behaviours, like sit, wave, bow, drop, speak, etc. The only way they will move back at all after that is if I start taking steps in their direction (walking 'in' to them was how I originally taught the 'walk backwards'). I feel like it's starting to become a habit and vicious cycle now (cue, dog walks back, cue, dog stops, cue, dog offers alternative behaviour, I step forwards and give cue, dog walks back then stops again, etc.), so maybe I should start training this all over again from the beginning? What do you think? I got a pretty straight line by using barriers to create a corridor from the very beginning. Now they drift only slightly off course. ~ShelleAndShyla~ I'll have to try that! Imagine a recall from a distance, coming backwards all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Lessen the distance. You want to work at somewhere around 80-90% success rate. Let's say you ask for 1.2m (use little bits of tape on the ground if you need to), do 5 trials. Click when they hit 1.2m, then have them come to you for the treat and to set up the next trial. Do five trials in a row, if they hit the 1.2m at least 4 out of 5 times, increase to 1.3m and try another 5 trials. If you're not getting 4/5 at 1.2m, lessen the distance to 1.1m If we ask for the most amount of behaviour we can get every time, we tend to get stuck. The rate of reinforcement drops off, the dog gets confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W Sibs Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I use the hand signal too. Waving him back. I've never measured how far I want him to go. Sometimes it's a metre or sometimes it's 2 metres or more (depends on where I'm training him) he just goes till I give him the "stay" hand signal. Shelle.. I'm going to try your way tonight!! Sounds interesting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prydenjoy Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Just another thought... Berri actually learnt to walk backwards when I was trying to shape the 2 on 2 off on a mat, I had been unsuccesful trying to lure him into walking backwards but when I tried shaping the 2 on 2 off he just started walking backwards (so I gave up on the 2O2O for now!). I think that is why he walks in such a crooked line, his back feet are doing what they were when they were searching for a mat. However, as your dogs will walk back in a straight line, perhaps you could train them to walk back until they reach a mat, then you can just put the mat further and further back until they are doing really far walks backwards, and then fade the mat. Just an idea, not sure how well it would work! Oh and then you could possibly (if you want) stop giving the continued cue, just get them to keep walking backwards until you give them a cue to stop (this would be the mat, until you begin fading it and replace it with a different cue). Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopenfox Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 Some great ideas, thanks! I'll be trying them out shortly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You have taught them that to walk back you must give numerous commands ("back back back back") as well as body cue & signal by walking in to them. It sounds like it's a chain of cues for them rather than just one command, it sounds like they don't actually know what the command means, try giving it to them once, with no body movement or hand signal & see what they do. My suggestion would be to go back to basics, you can teach it a different way - putting food between your legs & when they go to get it & take a step back to look at your face, click & treat - once they know what the command means give them one command & when the take a step back, reward etc until they are strong on the verbal command. Once they are solid, to increase the distance you need to wait them out, give them the command once & when they stop don't do anything, just wait them out until they take another step back & then click & treat. It doesnt take long for them to realise that they are better off to keep moving back rather than stopping. Occasionally the dog will just completely lose interest, but if the reward is high enough 99 times out of 100 the dog will try something (anything!) to get the reward & eventually will stumble upon the key to the reward ie the 2nd step back. Another thing that helps is once the dog knows the command & is walking back is to throw the treat behind them, stops them wanting to come into you all the time. If I had more time I would video Jarrah doing a walk back & I'd show you what I mean by waiting them out etc but I don't sorry, hope the explanation is of some help though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prydenjoy Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I love this dog, you can see where it just "gets it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 We were working on exactly the same issue a few weeks ago. We had some success in increasing distance. What we did was: only give one command. throw food to the position they stopped in to reward at that distance (and to stop them walking in for the reward) next we gave the command, let them do their comfortable distance, then a calm verbal marker then we waited...and asked for nothing at first I did a couple of leans & clicked any shift of their bodies back, throw food we got to the stage where they would back their comfortable distance, then stop, then with no command start by themselves again first I clicked on step, then 2 etc. Gradually the initial distance increased Makes me want to do some ore with it now that I have read this. I think the key (like most things with dog training) was to stop asking for things & just give them a chance to think. Hope this helps, I think I have explained it badly but hopefully it makes a bit of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsD Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 We were working on exactly the same issue a few weeks ago. We had some success in increasing distance. What we did was:only give one command. throw food to the position they stopped in to reward at that distance (and to stop them walking in for the reward) next we gave the command, let them do their comfortable distance, then a calm verbal marker then we waited...and asked for nothing at first I did a couple of leans & clicked any shift of their bodies back, throw food we got to the stage where they would back their comfortable distance, then stop, then with no command start by themselves again first I clicked on step, then 2 etc. Gradually the initial distance increased Makes me want to do some ore with it now that I have read this. I think the key (like most things with dog training) was to stop asking for things & just give them a chance to think. Hope this helps, I think I have explained it badly but hopefully it makes a bit of sense. This is basically what I was trying to describe in my post, but Vickie explained it much better than me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Erik's cue is me walking on the spot. It was the easiest way to transition from walking towards him to not going towards him. I just keep shuffling on the spot until I want him to stop, but I've never tried to see how far he will go back. I usually stop at about 1.5m or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wotagoodog Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 I bought a treat toy with a zip in it so they cant get the treat until you give it to them. Then placed the treat toy at an increased distance and clicked when the dog walked backwards to the distance to get the toy. If they turned around to get it they didn't get a click or treat but just a pat and good try. Didn't take long to be able to get the message to walk back until the toy was reached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 What's the best way of starting out with getting your dog to walk backwards I think I remember in the Susan Garrett 2 x 2 weaves she says not to walk into them (can't remember exactly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 I am thinking of training walking backwards and am also wondering - what is the best way to start teaching this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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