myboyjosh Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Hi everyone. This is my first time on this forum. I dabbled in feeding my Goldie with the BARF diet 12 months ago but was very concerned with regard to supplementing him that I ended up putting him back onto dry. Since then I have spoken to my vet about his diet and he has suggested that I try it again. He suggested that i give him Cod liver oil (1 teasp per day) Kelp (1/2 teasp per day) Brewers Yeast (1 x 500mg tablet per day). My vet did say he wasn't an expert in this field so he suggested I get Ian Billinghurst's books to read. Well I did and boy am I even more confused after reading them lol. I intend to feed him beef, chicken, and mutton for his meat with some veges and chicken necks and thighs for his bone content (more if I can source them). Now I live in Tasmania where it is ILLEGAL to feed offal, and I have no intentions of breaking this law as I believe through personal experience it is a good one but in saying that is my Goldie going to be missing something important in his diet because of this. So my questions are 1. what my Vet has suggested as supplements are they enough in quantity 2. what else would you suggest I supplement him with and how much to give him and how often My Goldie is 36kg and almost 2 years of age. Thanking you in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Can't people buy offal in the butchers shops in Tassie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myboyjosh Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Can't people buy offal in the butchers shops in Tassie? Yes we can but as I stated it is ILLEGAL to feed it to your dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I would think it is not illegal to feed offal- providing you source it from your butcher! hearts, liver, brains, tripe..... I think what the law means is that if you find roadkill, and/or butcher a beast and feed the unchecked bits ... Or? maybe I'm very wrong. I'd be surprised though if feeding meat from a butcher is illegal, whether it is a lamb heart or a filet mignon. make sure the red meat you feed has bone too- lamb flaps, beef brisket, pig's heads, turkey necks, kangaroo tails I would suggest chicken necks.thighs are a bit small for a goldie- I would worry that he wouldn't chew them . Chicken frames are good- as are turkey wings. he doesn't need much veg... these threads may be interesting for you LINK LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Ok! NO butcher's offal either LINK TO Tassie LAWpertaining to HYDATID DISEASE Sheesh- as if the lamb hearts are going to be full of hydatid cysts if they are for human consumption. Edited November 26, 2009 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I guess you could use chicken hearts/livers..and if you feed frames there will be kidneys too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myboyjosh Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 I would think it is not illegal to feed offal- providing you source it from your butcher! hearts, liver, brains, tripe..... I think what the law means is that if you find roadkill, and/or butcher a beast and feed the unchecked bits ... Or? maybe I'm very wrong. I'd be surprised though if feeding meat from a butcher is illegal, whether it is a lamb heart or a filet mignon.make sure the red meat you feed has bone too- lamb flaps, beef brisket, pig's heads, turkey necks, kangaroo tails I would suggest chicken necks.thighs are a bit small for a goldie- I would worry that he wouldn't chew them . Chicken frames are good- as are turkey wings. he doesn't need much veg... these threads may be interesting for you LINK LINK I'm sorry to say persephone that it is here in Tassie illegal to feed human grade offal to our dogs. I really appreciate the info you have given me though thank you very much I do not wish to get into a debate about the rights and wrongs of this law. It is how it is I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) Myboyjosh- if you look- you will see I googled the law and posted a link to it Oh- and suggested alternatives Edited November 26, 2009 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 (edited) I understand supplementing with cod liver oil causes considerable problems with inhibiting calcium uptake. Just stick the dog out in the sun for 10 minutes every day Kelp, yes no, depends on the dog. Certainly won't hurt if he's not allergic to it. Brewer's yeast - lots of dogs are allergic to it, wouldn't go there to start with. If you feed a sensible variety IMO you don't need supplements of any sort unless the dog has a diagnosed medical condition. ETA: BIZARRE law! In NZ (hydatids capital of the world) dogs could be feed offal provided it was frozen or cooked. Illegal to feed it uncooked/unfrozen. Agree with the idea of chicken offal, and beef wasn't considered a host for hydatids. Edited November 26, 2009 by Sandra777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 If you feed a sensible variety IMO you don't need supplements of any sort unless the dog has a diagnosed medical condition. I'd agree with this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Spots Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Tassie is very proud of its Hydatid status b/c it was such a big problem. I think it is a just to be sure measure You could always use Dr B's barf patties - my 2 whippies eat half a pattie each a night, it works out to be $1.60 per pattie which is quite good and they look awesome. Alternatively you could give one every second night and go for Raw Meaty Bones on the other nights to make it cheaper with chicken carcasses, lamb shanks etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 (edited) Hi everyone. This is my first time on this forum. I dabbled in feeding my Goldie with the BARF diet 12 months ago but was very concerned with regard to supplementing him that I ended up putting him back onto dry. Since then I have spoken to my vet about his diet and he has suggested that I try it again. He suggested that i give him Cod liver oil (1 teasp per day) Kelp (1/2 teasp per day) Brewers Yeast (1 x 500mg tablet per day). My vet did say he wasn't an expert in this field so he suggested I get Ian Billinghurst's books to read.Well I did and boy am I even more confused after reading them lol. I intend to feed him beef, chicken, and mutton for his meat with some veges and chicken necks and thighs for his bone content (more if I can source them). Now I live in Tasmania where it is ILLEGAL to feed offal, and I have no intentions of breaking this law as I believe through personal experience it is a good one but in saying that is my Goldie going to be missing something important in his diet because of this. So my questions are 1. what my Vet has suggested as supplements are they enough in quantity 2. what else would you suggest I supplement him with and how much to give him and how often My Goldie is 36kg and almost 2 years of age. Thanking you in advance. I think there will always be a debate on whether supplements are needed and if so what they are. The more varied and inclusive the diet the less need there is for supplements though and I dont think they are the be all and end all Nothing much wrong with what your vet has suggested, it sounds similar to what Ian Billinghurst recommends. Be careful with the Kelp though, I'm not entirely sure but I think too much can be harmful to the dogs thyriod. Brewers yeast is a good source of vitamin B but again, dont over-do it, it can cause skin and ear probs in some dogs. Cod liver oil is quite rich (high in vitamin A too I think??), I tend to prefer the Melrose Omega Pet oil, Fish oil + Vitamin E or flaxseed oil myself. Other things you could try if you wanted too are Vitamin C, fresh garlic, Apple Cider Vinegar and (not really supplements but) natural yogurt, eggs -inc shell, and goats milk. I like to use a bit of Saschas Blend too, my dog and cat love it You dont need to be anal with the supplements either lol, every 2nd or 3rd day (or even less) is okay. The only one I really give day in day out is ACV. Its a bit sad about the offal law. If it were me I'd go for chicken frames or pet mince which normally had a little bit of offal in there somewhere. The Barf patties would be a good start too if you wanted to go that way. Then you would not have to worry about things such at offal, supplements and correct ratios :D I've also read somewhere (I think in the raw feeding thread) that you can buy canned tripe. This might be helpful?? Another thing to consider could be VAN (Vets all Natural) mix. I've never used it before but as far as I know you just soak it and mix with the correct amount of meat/RMB's. Something that may be helpful to you in working this out is to look for breeders of your breed that feed raw and quiz them on what, how much, etc. Most will be more than happy to give you advice on how to go about it and from there you can work out what is available to you and what your dog does well on as all dogs are different. Anyway, this is all JMO and everybody has one when it comes to feeding lol. eta, I forgot to add sardines and mackeral are great additions to a raw diet as well Edited November 27, 2009 by SecretKei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Age Outlaw Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Yes we can but as I stated it is ILLEGAL to feed it to your dogs. OK, I know I'm going a bit here, and I apologise for that, but I am gobsmacked that it is OK for people to eat offal from the butchers but not OK for dogs. I just don't get it! *scratches head* Sorry, nothing useful to contribute; everyone has already said what I would have said anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 Yes we can but as I stated it is ILLEGAL to feed it to your dogs. OK, I know I'm going a bit here, and I apologise for that, but I am gobsmacked that it is OK for people to eat offal from the butchers but not OK for dogs. I just don't get it! *scratches head* Sorry, nothing useful to contribute; everyone has already said what I would have said anyway. Because human's are not a step in the hydatids tapeworm lifecycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Age Outlaw Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Because human's are not a step in the hydatids tapeworm lifecycle. But humans can be infected with hydatids (even though they are only intermediate hosts, so the lifecycle of the parasite ends there) and they can cause serious, sometimes fatal consequences in humans. So even though they can't spread that way, it doesn't explain why humans are allowed to be consuming offal if it is so subject to parasitic contamination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Because human's are not a step in the hydatids tapeworm lifecycle. But humans can be infected with hydatids (even though they are only intermediate hosts, so the lifecycle of the parasite ends there) and they can cause serious, sometimes fatal consequences in humans. So even though they can't spread that way, it doesn't explain why humans are allowed to be consuming offal if it is so subject to parasitic contamination. My understanding (and it's hot and I've just been battling the shops so I'm no doubt foggy!) is that the worm only cysts after it has been through 2 hosts - sheep (or goat) & dog were the usual suspects in NZ. I think humans only get hydatids from dogs who only get it from sheep (or goats) they can't get it directly from sheep (or goats). Good chance I'm confused and you should consult google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got Spots Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Humans also cook their food !!!!!! Killing any tapeworm/cysts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) I imagine that Tas would have a big hydatits problem, because it has the ideal climate. And there is always the possibility of a cyst getting through the butcher's/abattoir inspection. And people do cook their food, so I suppose if dogs aren't fed offal, there is not going to be a problem. Yep, Sandra, I am sure you are right. Humans get it from dogs who have it. They can't get it directly from the offal themselves. And I think sheep are the main suspects? Dunno about goats? I have a friend with a property in the highlands of NSW. He butchers his own meat. There is no way he would ever feed any of his dogs offal, for this reason. And his mother needed an operation to remove a cyst, so he is particularly careful. I think you could get around the "no offal" by supplements, and offal is only a small percentage of the ration. I believe liver is rich in Vit A, and you could check kidneys, heart, and add supplements. I'd add an extra egg or two, and not worry too much about it!! Or you could write to Ian Billinghurst and ask him. Nice guy, happy to answer. Edited November 28, 2009 by Jed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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