Allergies & Ear Problems

[Staff'n'Toller]

Hey Erny did you end up finding out what the drops/tablets were?

Hope Mandela is eating for you.

[Erny]

Hey Erny did you end up finding out what the drops/tablets were?

Hope Mandela is eating for you.

Yes.

The liquid

Use : “To boost immune system and get liver going”

Tarax Acum

Chelidonium

Hydrastis

Lycopodium

China

Sulphur

Calcium Sulphate

Potassium Chloride

Potassium Sulphate

Silican Dioxide

The Tablets

Use : “Acid remover” (tissue salts)

Mathpos (aka Sodium Phosphate)

Basically, it is a detox program. I started him on it on Monday evening. Barry tells me that I should begin to see improvement in 7 days. Seven days beyond that, I send in another hair sample for a progress analysis and we go from there. I think this is pretty good. The $90 I spent covers all of that (meds that I've received, included). Don't know how far it extends though.

He has, since I started him on Barry's meds, started eating better. But the credit for that needs to be shared between both Mr. Templeton and Mandela's naturopath, as he is also on numerous tabs and powder additives that have been prescribed by her. And the fact that he began to eat better only half an hour after administering the meds from Barry (whereas he's been on the meds from the naturopath for about a week or so) makes me think it is likely to be coincidental :D. Who knows.

His "eating better" isn't exactly consistent though. I sometimes need to offer him his food numerous times throughout the day. He might eat it all in one hit. Or he might nibble some and turn away, nibble some more later and turn away. His meal times can be quite time consuming and I'm becoming very inventive in trying things as a way of encouraging him to eat.

At the moment, the only thing he'll eat is BARF Rabbit. He was getting this, plus chicken wings, plus roo mince (not all at once). He went off roo mince first. Then he went off chicken wings. I KNOW he's really feeling off when he won't lick a spoonful of Manuka honey off the spoon :p . Having said that, he did eat two chicken wings yesterday. But he didn't exactly show the gusto he would normally show.

He recently went off the VAN Medi-treats (he used to looooove them). He's now enjoying Roo Jerky.

He won't touch lamb shanks.

Won't touch chicken skins.

He's irratic about whether he'll chew on a roo tail or not (sometimes does, sometimes completely disinterested, or sometimes just seems to like it when it is a few days old).

BUT, at least I'm getting food into him. Poor bug#er .... He's been covered in hives - hundreds of them, literally. And of the ones that have erupted, the scabs are falling away with new skin underneath (which is good), but he's looking quite mangy/mottley.

But he's happy and loves a good romp, game of ball retrieve and of course his drive training with the tug, along with all the other little games and tricks we play in between.

That'll do me .

Edited December 24, 2009 by Erny

[Staff'n'Toller]

Thanks for the info!

I have one here who I've been told has a questionable liver and as well as one of his siblings being affected I see a couple of things which really make me wonder. I'm just not quite sure where to turn as I can't do 100% barf right now. Tossing up whether to send a sample to this guy.

Luckily for me he is an outwardly healthy dog with a beatiful coat, fairly good teeth and never refuses food.

[Erny]

I have one here who I've been told has a questionable liver and as well as one of his siblings being affected I see a couple of things which really make me wonder. I'm just not quite sure where to turn as I can't do 100% barf right now. Tossing up whether to send a sample to this guy.

SnT ..... I sent Mandela's hair sample in for curiousity sake - you know, that "what if there's something in this?". I wanted to see what someone who hadn't seen my dog (ie wasn't influenced by visual appearance) would diagnose. Barry's diagnosis was not completely off the mark to what Mandela's naturopath's thoughts were, so I can only conclude there might be something in it. I did need to inform Barry what symptoms I was seeing though. I went in with a mind set of "oh well, what's $90 in the scheme of things" considering I've already spent thousands so far, due to his health issues.

Barry Templeton sounds very confident of the results we should expect to see though, and I must say that I'm enjoying the feeling of riding on the coat tails of that confidence, and the assurance of such a short period of time to be able to see improvement.

One thing that is confusing with Mandela ..... going by experience, he does come reasonably good and you end up thinking it's because of the food etc. that you have him on. But then, after months, things go on the slide again. It will be a good many months before I will be able to say with any confidence as to whether any of what I'm doing for him is the reason for any improvement as "coincidence" is never far from my mind.

The only thing you have to lose by sending in a hair sample to Barry is $90.00. That's the way I looked at it.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Erny

[sas]

Erny did you find out how they conduct the hair analysis?

[Erny]

Sas I'm sorry ...... I did ask, but felt too dumb to suggest I didn't have a clue what he might be talking about. All I know is that they use "machinery". I mentioned the "vibration energy" that I'd heard others used, and it wasn't denied, nor confirmed. I needed help for my boy, so I didn't want to start off on the wrong foot by questioning too deeply (as though picking it apart) the method/s they use for the analysis. All I can say is that he was reasonably close to the mark by comparison to what the naturopath has suggested. And I must admit that I was buoyed by Barry's own confidence in what he does and the homoeopathic remedies they use. Poor Mandela looks very moth eaten at the moment, with many of the hives having erupted and patches of fur dropping off as a result. But this means they are drying out and I know that the fur will grow back. Eating is still a struggle .... He doesn't go at it with the enthusiasm that he used to, but he is at least, even if only over the day, eating more than he was only a week or two ago and is therefore putting back on some weight. At this stage, we're still 'stuck' on Barf Rabbit and on a reasonably good day he'll eat 6% of his body weight. On a very good day, he'll eat a bit more. If I fed what I feed my boy to my previous girl, she would have been very rotund, to say the least. Many people, seeing my boy (he at least has some rib cover now, although his little hip bones could do with some more padding) are very surprised at how much I feed on a daily basis.

This coming Monday is the seventh day since beginning Barry's meds. There is already improvement, but I won't count "improvement" as being sufficient until I see him eating more consistently and enthusiastically. And I can't attribute all improvement to Barry's meds as Mandela's also on a hodge podge of Naturopath meds as well. So I can't divide the credit between the two.

[luvsdogs]

Is Barry & the naturopath aware that you are using the other's products.

[Erny]

Is Barry & the naturopath aware that you are using the other's products.

Yes, they are. Each knows what the other's products/ingredients are. There is no way I would 'medicate' (homeopathics or not) with additional additives unless I had confirmation that it was ok to do so. But it was a very valid question that you ask, Luvsdogs, and I in your shoes would have asked the same .

ETA: Macka ..... I'm so sorry. Somehow I've hijacked this thread. I didn't mean to.

Edited December 26, 2009 by Erny

[2tollers]

Thanks for the updates Erny. God I feel for you, it must be so hard going through this with Mandela.

I don't think Macka minds if the thread is highjacked, who knows it could help Leia.

Please do keep us udated on Mandela's progress. Even if Barry and your Naturopath don't solve the problem, they might help to reduce medication and that can only be a good thing.

There's never an easy "fix" for these things. I'm a great believer in conventional meds, alternative meds and procedures in combination.

[Erny]

Thanks for the updates Erny. God I feel for you, it must be so hard going through this with Mandela.

You know, 2tollers? ..... I pretty much take all of this on the chin. I've had nothing other than health issues from day dot. After Kal and her maladies (bless her cotton socks, I still miss her) my boy was supposed to be well, healthy and allow me to be a bit more care free (and just concentrate on his training). Meh ..... so, he was somehow supposed to come to me.

But I must admit I get tired from it at times, today being one of those. I spend so much time dotting around trying to get him to eat this or that or the other. He barely ate today. I included some vegemite in his dinner tonight (I have no idea if that's the right thing to do or not) just to try to get him to eat. It worked to a point. At least I got some food into him. But I don't plan on too much of the vegemite.

And I get a bit cross too. As far as I'm aware, I've done everything right. Registered breeder; avoided chemicals; so on and so forth.

And I know that in amongst all of this, I am at high risk of creating a fussy eater. But I'll deal with that little issue when I know he is well. At the moment, his skin looks diseased. But that's the least of it.

My Vet has said there's nothing more that he can do for him.

And just to top everything off, there's a neighbourhood cat hanging around and it invites itself in to eat Mandela's "left overs". I sprung it up on my kitchen bench a couple of weeks ago (I leave the back door open for Mandela to go in/out). It had tried for a munch of my bread rolls (I found the packet on the floor) and lordy knows what other foods I'd left to defrost on the bench. That was more food I had to throw out.

Today Mandela left one of his chicken wings on the rear decking. I heard noise and went out to find the cat munching on it. I haven't yet been able to catch the cat - I want to attach a collar with a note to let its owners know what it is up to. <sigh> .... sorry, 2tollers, I think your little bit of sympathy opened the flood gates to a big fat whinge from me lol.

ETA: And my house is as though a bomb's hit it. And I hate it. I think that's eating at me more than anything else. Mandela - well, he needs me. And I do what I do without too much lamenting. But the state of the house ..... it s$%ts me. .

Edited December 26, 2009 by Erny

[Staff'n'Toller]

I didn't read all of your specific thread for Mandela, but in our recent discussions in the back of my mind is whether intradermal skin testing may be of benefit to rule out he is not having occasional breakouts due to an environmental allergen, and that his picky eating is due to constant histamine release...?

Just a thought....my sister has lots of intolerences and allergies and one of her biggest ones is to Pine. We have a vacant block down the road with a row of Pine trees.

[Erny]

SnT ..... I don't think it is that. I've PM'd you with some catch up information as well. The Vets he has seen didn't think it was related to food or contact allergy either. But no, he hasn't actually had any intradermal skin tests. Thanks for the thought though. I won't reject it and will bear it in mind, but it just doesn't 'add up' (to me, or to the Vets/Naturopaths we have seen over the last 12 months, either).

Edited December 26, 2009 by Erny

[2tollers]

LOL Feel free to whinge any time Erny, and hang in there, you're doing a great job. Maybe Mandela WAS supposed to come to you?

I've had a dog in the past with allergies and he spent his entire life on antibiotics and cortisone. Even with the medication (and a very basic diet) he was never really comfortable and he had the hive/bump type things you're talking about. At that time (nearly 30 years ago) I wasn't aware of alternative treatments for dogs, but if I had been, I would have tried anything.

If you do ever create a fussy eater, that's not a problem. He can come to my place for a few days and compete with my tollers for food. They're such pigs that I'm pretty sure they'd help to get rid of the "fussy" business after a while.

When your vet says there's nothing more that they can do for him that's when you have to get out and try anything you can to help him. There has to be a reason for the behaviour, something's not right somewhere, but where to start????????????????

As for the cat, give it a good kick up the arse if you can, they can be such pushy little bastards.

Staff'n'Tollers suggestion of intradermal skin testing sounds like a good idea too. I think that's the same thing I have done to my son but it's called "skin prick testing".

Give Mandela a big hug from me. I'll keep my fingers crossed that he'll find some relief soon.

[Erny]

If you do ever create a fussy eater, that's not a problem. He can come to my place for a few days and compete with my tollers for food. They're such pigs that I'm pretty sure they'd help to get rid of the "fussy" business after a while. ;)

I might hold you to that offer, 2tollers . After the cat was seen dashing away from the partly eaten chicken wing, Mandela ate it (the remainder of the chicken wing, not the cat). I well know that some competition would be helpful.

I've had a dog in the past with allergies and he spent his entire life ...

Oh!! I hope not!! Mandela has somewhat expensive food taste. Food (including the additives) is costing me between $120 and $150 per week for him alone, at the moment. . Not to mention that I 'feel' for him too, as I know that although he copes ok, he isn't comfortable inside his own skin and body at these bad times.

Give Mandela a big hug from me.

Done .

I'll keep my fingers crossed that he'll find some relief soon.

Thanks. We'll get there. The 'ordeal' lasted a month or so the last time. If it goes to pattern, we'll have 2-3 weeks more of it, then he'll go back to eating, then the new flushes of hives will become less and less in numbers until his skin is 'clean' again, and his coat will grow back. And as the months roll on, he'll put back on some weight and he'll just get to the point where I can finally *almost* think it is close to time when I might need to watch he doesn't put on too much weight (that'll be around 6-7 months, if I am lucky), and it will all occur over again, and I'll need to find yet again a different food type that he'll eat. That is IF it goes to the pattern I think is beginning to reveal. Only time will tell on that score. I've learnt some things about natural treatments through all of this though . And when he is feeling well, he's fun to train .

Edited December 26, 2009 by Erny

[zayda_asher]

SnT ..... I don't think it is that. I've PM'd you with some catch up information as well. The Vets he has seen didn't think it was related to food or contact allergy either. But no, he hasn't actually had any intradermal skin tests. Thanks for the thought though. I won't reject it and will bear it in mind, but it just doesn't 'add up' (to me, or to the Vets/Naturopaths we have seen over the last 12 months, either).

That really surprises me Erny, I've been reading your threads (on and off when I have time) and assumed this must have been done, as quite a few of his symptoms really match some of the allergy dogs I've seen and lived with and discussed with our dermatologist... just as with anything, not all dogs are "text book" in their reactions. A good example is the hives you mention: you mention a pattern where they seem to turn into pustules, which is not at all normal for hives, but is very normal for a dog having chronic staph infection. One of my dogs is prone to chronic staph with his allergies and the one time he did get hives it turned into the WORST staph infection he has ever had. My other dog is prone to hives and they come up and are very itchy, painful etc. but they subside after a few days and never break out into anything else - which is the much more typical pattern. So I'm wondering if your boy may be getting hives, but also staph (or if staph has been misdiagnosed even) and I wonder if they have tested for staph and treated accordingly? If it is staph, then this definitely may produce the picky food eating etc. that you are seeing as they often get the GI issues etc. with it and feel too sick to eat etc... if my boy's staph was left untreated we would see very similar things I think when it reached a chronic point (and did with that one I mentioned above that came from the hive episode). So if you haven't I would most definitely ask them to look for staph outbreak and treat it aggressively (needs a long course of ABs to clear rampant staph - 31days normally suggested) and I'd also be testing for allergies...

Good luck!

Edit: clarity

Edited December 27, 2009 by zayda_asher

[zayda_asher]

Staff'n'Tollers suggestion of intradermal skin testing sounds like a good idea too. I think that's the same thing I have done to my son but it's called "skin prick testing".

Yep, same thing...

Also another thought: some dogs experiencing Adverse Food Reactions (AFR) will stop eating because they learn to associate the chronic symptoms they experience with eating meals... I've spoken to a few people with AFR who have experienced this, although my AFR dog loves the things she's not meant to have

So I really think talking to a dermatologist could be a really good move: even if it is not allergies he's having a lot of skin and related issues and dermatology would be a good area to look into.

[Erny]

... you mention a pattern where they seem to turn into pustules, which is not at all normal for hives, but is very normal for a dog having chronic staph infection.

Thanks, to everyone who contributes here. I'm not rejecting anything that is suggested. A question on the staph infection, ZA (I hadn't even considered that). Would your thoughts on this be the same even to know that a 'wash' with Calendula Tea sets it right - generally within 24 - 48 hours, and that the hives do diminish until they no longer appear. And then I don't have any skin issues for months on end (again, that's if the pattern I have seen occur twice, occurs in the same way) ?

[Erny]

Had a small read up on the staph infection side of things. If I'm reading it correctly, Staph is dormant on the skin in all dogs. But some dogs can be allergic to the very staph bacteria that is dormant and this in itself causes irritation, which brings on scratching (OR, dog has a 'normal' itch and scratches, but this disturbs the staph bacteria), which results in the multiplication of staph bacteria, which starts the whole sequence off into a major outbreak.

ZA ..... is my understanding correct?

If it is, then I really need to have him tested for allergy to the bacteria of his own skin - bacteria that in the 'normal' dog would not be an issue, but may be an issue for my boy due to hypersensitivity.

???? Am I right?

ETA: Not all the hives erupt. Many do. But many also appear and then can recede within 24-72 hours.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Erny

[zayda_asher]

Thanks, to everyone who contributes here. I'm not rejecting anything that is suggested. A question on the staph infection, ZA (I hadn't even considered that). Would your thoughts on this be the same even to know that a 'wash' with Calendula Tea sets it right - generally within 24 - 48 hours, and that the hives do diminish until they no longer appear. And then I don't have any skin issues for months on end (again, that's if the pattern I have seen occur twice, occurs in the same way) ?

Yes, if you are doing enough to keep them relatively under control and they are not becoming chronic... with all you are doing I would suspect that may well be the case. For example: Asher just had a few break out (maybe 4-5 pustules) so I upped his regular dose of Pau D'arco (a herbal antimicrobial) and they have cleared and subsided... I'll keep him on this dose for a while as we are in a time that is the right conditions for him to have staph overgrowth and hopefully when I lower the dose he will be ok... so if you can get in and keep things at a relatively low level, then yes, what you describe may well be the case - you're just seeing a mild instead of chronic infection because of the work you are putting in.

Had a small read up on the staph infection side of things. If I'm reading it correctly, Staph is dormant on the skin in all dogs.

Yes, and humans too... part of the natural flora

But some dogs can be allergic to the very staph bacteria that is dormant and this in itself causes irritation, which brings on scratching

Which according to our derm and most derm research I've read is not that common. We actually suspected this may be the case with Asher, but it wasn't: he has a chronic response to his atopy with staph as a secondary infection.

OR, dog has a 'normal' itch and scratches, but this disturbs the staph bacteria), which results in the multiplication of staph bacteria, which starts the whole sequence off into a major outbreak.

Yes, this is MUCH more common... secondary skin infection from allergies can quite often be staph (other wise yeast, or rod shaped bacteria or a combo of them). Hence, if he's getting hives and itching a lot he could be getting secondary infection (staph) and you need to find the cause, and I would highly suspect allergies.

If it is, then I really need to have him tested for allergy to the bacteria of his own skin - bacteria that in the 'normal' dog would not be an issue, but may be an issue for my boy due to hypersensitivity.

Much more likely that he is having an allergic response, getting hives, itching and getting secondary skin infection and you are managing to keep it "in check", but not get rid of the overgrowth, so it comes back easily (common prob with staph and why you need the long course of ABs), which then cascades into the other symptoms (and some of them may also be from other allergic responses). If this were me, my first port of call would be a derm and intradermal testing and possibly food elimination.

ETA: Not all the hives erupt. Many do. But many also appear and then can recede within 24-72 hours.

That sounds much more normal for hives... I would suspect you have both: hives and staph.

Edit: clarity again!

Edited December 27, 2009 by zayda_asher

[zayda_asher]

Also: intradermal panel will test for common allergens in your area... it often includes Malassezia organisms (one group of yeasts), but they don't do staph (its just not common and even has some controversy attached to it over if the staph is always a buy product or can be a sensitivity in its own right).

I've got two dogs with chronic allergies, have done intradermal testing 3 times (one dog needed retesting) and 2 lots of elimination diets (same dog twice, she developed more food reactions as well as atopic) and have almost 8 yrs of researching allergies under my belt now, so if you want to discuss it more, do feel free to PM me. I'm certainly not an expert, and I'd definitely want to see a derm with your boy, but I've learned a lot and it may help

Edited December 27, 2009 by zayda_asher