Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) I am having a issue with Jet. I have just completed a basic training course with him and I am very happy with all the things he has learnt and we are keeping up with the training. The only issue I am having is his aggression towards other dogs. I am positive he is going through a fear stage as when he is barking and being aggressive his anal glands go. There has been a few situations. First at dog obedience he did have the aggression only towards two other dogs there but not others. He seemed only to react when we were sitting still and his mind was not being stimulated? The trainers solution there was to tug him and tell him "out" and walk away til he stops and then walk back. Second time I went out with a friend with her dalmation and Jet. Jet to start off with was showing this fear aggression and again his anal glands had gone. We used treats and eventually he likes the dally once he got to know her a bit. I forgot to mention it is only towards dogs he has not met before. The final time was last night. I took Jet to the vet for a check up as he got desexed on friday. I thought that the desexing may of helped with it a bit but didn't seem so. I walked in and off he went again. I had to wait outside until the vet wanted to see him. I asked the vet nurse if she had a recommendation but she said its just excitement When we walk down our road there are dogs that come to the fences and bark in nearlly every yard and he does not react just keep on walking. So I am a bit confused. Suggestions? Wasn't sure if I should post this in here or training but I though since it is more of a puppy thing? Edited November 24, 2009 by jettyjet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 How old is Jet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 nearlly 10 months old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 what do you mean by 'aggression' - I dont think he's aggressive I think he is showing an anxiety driven aggressive fear response. also if he is releasing his anal glands he has anxiety control issues. You need to be teaching him redirection behavior (ie I feel stressed so I look at my handler to be told what to do) not just punishing. It does not good as his anxiety is already high then he gets in trouble, plus you are removing him which to him is what he wants (you will find this enough reward for him to escalate his behavior). He needs to be taught to cope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 what do you mean by 'aggression' - I dont think he's aggressive I think he is showing an anxiety driven aggressive fear response.also if he is releasing his anal glands he has anxiety control issues. You need to be teaching him redirection behavior (ie I feel stressed so I look at my handler to be told what to do) not just punishing. It does not good as his anxiety is already high then he gets in trouble, plus you are removing him which to him is what he wants (you will find this enough reward for him to escalate his behavior). He needs to be taught to cope. Aggression I mean as in growling/barking and pulling on the lead. How can I help him next time I am in a situation like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 what do you mean by 'aggression' - I dont think he's aggressive I think he is showing an anxiety driven aggressive fear response.also if he is releasing his anal glands he has anxiety control issues. You need to be teaching him redirection behavior (ie I feel stressed so I look at my handler to be told what to do) not just punishing. It does not good as his anxiety is already high then he gets in trouble, plus you are removing him which to him is what he wants (you will find this enough reward for him to escalate his behavior). He needs to be taught to cope. Aggression I mean as in growling/barking and pulling on the lead. How can I help him next time I am in a situation like this? Punishing anxiety is pointless. My honest advice is don't get him into situations like this. Don't force him to sit still while the thing he fears approaches... take him out to the distance he considers "safe" and praise him for calmness there. You will not teach him to 'cope' by confrontation. He needs to spend time in the company of disinterested, non reactive dogs so he can learn that not all dogs are a threat. Personally, I think you need professional help with this. It's not the first time I've said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 call a professional, I agree with poodlefan. This dog needs proper behavior modification NOT punishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Jettyjet, I own a dog that was like Jet at his age.. I got lots of advice, most of it complete shit. The worst of it was to punish him for behaving aggressively. Luckily I knew just enough to ignore it. I beat a path to see K9Force and it was the best thing I ever did. Darcy will never be a confident dog. He will never welcome the attention of strange dogs. He shows all the body language that he has to deter approaches but some dogs don't read him or don't care. That's where I step in. Darcy is not reactive onlead nor does he bite. Another dog I know who is punished for aggressing now reacts when he sights any strange dog approaching.. and goes off his nut. That dog has bitten. Introduction to strange polite dogs can be managed so that Darcy will not react to them and can be safely allowed to run offlead with them. If they get in his face, I've failed as an owner to protect him from what he fears. Suffice it to say Darcy is not the dog I suggest for puppy socialisation.. but he can mix with my friends young pups if well managed. He needs time to appreciate that they are not a threat. If Jet is like Darcy (and he sounds like it) then forcing him into social situations provokes the reactions you are getting. We know he lunges at strange dogs because you've told us that. Your job is to stop strange dogs getting close enough that he feels the need to defend himself, first by warning barking and then by aggressing. I think it helps to consider this as not so much a problem that Jet has but a responsibility that you must assume. Give him space. Keep him away from "friendly" dogs ( a reactive dog owners worst nightmare) and get help. This situation can be improved. Edited November 24, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Thanks for the advice. I have emailed a trainer/behaviourist so I am waiting for her to respond. Any reccommendations? I can not avoid the vet which is a problem. Next week we are going back so I will keep him outside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the advice. I have emailed a trainer/behaviourist so I am waiting for her to respond. Any reccommendations? I can not avoid the vet which is a problem. Next week we are going back so I will keep him outside? I would crate him in a pet carrier. Cover it if necessary. A physical barrier between Jet and perceived threats may help. He's clearly smart enough to realise that a dog behind a barrier is not a threat to him. Booking the first or last appointment of the day might help to - the surgery should be quieter. I try to sit Darcy in the cat section when he goes to the vet (with the permission of any cat owner of course). Darce loves the kitties. I don't know her personally but Jane Harper has an excellent reputation. She is in Brisbane. Edited November 24, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 He does have a later appointment and I will take his crate with me next time. Jet loves the cats too. It just seems to be larger dogs that set him off. I will search google to see if I can find Jane on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monah Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 You can PM me for a behavourist in your area if you like she's excellent and works with K9force. I have to agree with PF. I have a dog who is reactive to certain things, pups, over friendly dogs in her face. We just don't get in those situations and have also trained her to focus on me at all times. It is very unfortunate that some people insist on their dog being 'friends' with mine so I stop that immediately. My dog has never been the 'aggressor', more the 'try and get out of other dogs way'. She can be great friends with most dogs, but I never take this for granted. You really do need to get on top of this now, or there will be 12 or more years of escalation and learned behaviours from you lovely dog. Best wishesxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 He does have a later appointment and I will take his crate with me next time. Jet loves the cats too. It just seems to be larger dogs that set him off. I will search google to see if I can find Jane on there. It goes without saying that you should not allow other dogs to investigate Jet while he's in his pet carrier. If you can't get him away from others, cover it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 He does have a later appointment and I will take his crate with me next time. Jet loves the cats too. It just seems to be larger dogs that set him off. I will search google to see if I can find Jane on there. It goes without saying that you should not allow other dogs to investigate Jet while he's in his pet carrier. If you can't get him away from others, cover it completely. Okay thats not an issue. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Darcy and some big friends.. never give up JJ... improvement is very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Thank you PM he is adorable. He has never had a bad experience and was socialised as much as I could when he was younger. So its hard thing when I try hard and he reacts like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Thank you PM he is adorable. He has never had a bad experience and was socialised as much as I could when he was younger. So its hard thing when I try hard and he reacts like this. You'll never force him to like big dogs JJ.. all you can do is help him to tolerate them. No amount of effort will change a dog's fundamental character - all we can do is manage the aspects that cause us concern. As I've said in other threads about aggression, dogs aren't blank slates and it's not just 'bad' owners that have aggressive dogs. Chances are he inherited his lack of confidence.. but whatever the cause its how you proceed from here that will make the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 He seems to like the big dogs once he gets to know them. But I have emailed Jane and will wait for her response. Being so close before christmas I hope she can see us beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 some dogs just have bad nerve and their breed will dictate how they react to the situation. His nerve is obviously not strong enough to hold the excitement/anxiety associated with other dogs. Very common and dont worry it can be fixed It just takes time and effort and make sure you keep up the work throughout the dogs life. Do it slowly and with the help of a good behaviorist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) He seems to like the big dogs once he gets to know them. But I have emailed Jane and will wait for her response. Being so close before christmas I hope she can see us beforehand. That's because he's developed confidence in those dogs when what he fears hasn't happened. But every new big dog is another unknown for him to deal with. Watch Darce with dogs he knows and you'd never know he had an issue. Introduce a new dog and we start again from scratch. Edited November 24, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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