WreckitWhippet Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Speak to his breeder. What if the breeder has no experience with ED? Giving that advice is not always going to end happily for puppy owners as some breeders are just not happy to hear about genetic problems in the pups they've produced. I think we've seen evidence of that on here on several occassions. I certainly do think that the breeder needs to be notified but if the dog has a joint problem then a specialist vet who needs to be called. Perhaps the breeder can suggest one but otherwise I'm not sure what else they can do. I can guarantee that his breeder will want to know about any supposed reaction to vaccine, what the pup was vaccinated with and what the vet thinks is wrong with this pup before the owner goes rushing off and doing anything else. So yes - notify the breeder but that doesn't really tell the owner what to do next does it? The breeder will point them in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) So yes - notify the breeder but that doesn't really tell the owner what to do next does it? I'd either get a second opinion now or get the x rays done and make sure an expert in the field interprets them, not the first vet. As the breeder has given a guarantee for such issues she may well want to have a say in the vet too. It may well be ED, but the vet's comments about the pup being too skinny and also having hip issues don't inspire great confidence from this distance. You'll often get told a Borzoi pup in good condition is skinny, but it shouldn't be by a vet. Edited November 23, 2009 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Speak to his breeder. What if the breeder has no experience with ED? Giving that advice is not always going to end happily for puppy owners as some breeders are just not happy to hear about genetic problems in the pups they've produced. I think we've seen evidence of that on here on several occassions. I certainly do think that the breeder needs to be notified but if the dog has a joint problem then a specialist vet who needs to be called. Perhaps the breeder can suggest one but otherwise I'm not sure what else they can do. I can guarantee that his breeder will want to know about any supposed reaction to vaccine, what the pup was vaccinated with and what the vet thinks is wrong with this pup before the owner goes rushing off and doing anything else. So yes - notify the breeder but that doesn't really tell the owner what to do next does it? The breeder will point them in the right direction An assumption that is constantly made on this forum when no other advice is given besides "ring the breeder". Not all breeders will point people in the right direction. I've seen people spend weeks waiting for phone calls or emails to be returned because the breeder doesn't want to know about genetic problems. Other times people get the whole song and dance of "bring the pup back and I'll give you another pup from the next litter" when the owner is already very attached to the pup they have. Not saying it's the case here but I think it's very presumptive to think the breeder will take care of everything when you've seen repeatedly that it doesn't always happen. If you personally know this breeder and can guarantee their support then that's great but it's advice that's given on this forum as the big cure-all every time there is a problem and it sometimes leaves newbie dog owners in a bad place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Speak to his breeder. What if the breeder has no experience with ED? Giving that advice is not always going to end happily for puppy owners as some breeders are just not happy to hear about genetic problems in the pups they've produced. I think we've seen evidence of that on here on several occassions. I certainly do think that the breeder needs to be notified but if the dog has a joint problem then a specialist vet who needs to be called. Perhaps the breeder can suggest one but otherwise I'm not sure what else they can do. I can guarantee that his breeder will want to know about any supposed reaction to vaccine, what the pup was vaccinated with and what the vet thinks is wrong with this pup before the owner goes rushing off and doing anything else. So yes - notify the breeder but that doesn't really tell the owner what to do next does it? The breeder will point them in the right direction An assumption that is constantly made on this forum when no other advice is given besides "ring the breeder". Not all breeders will point people in the right direction. I've seen people spend weeks waiting for phone calls or emails to be returned because the breeder doesn't want to know about genetic problems. Other times people get the whole song and dance of "bring the pup back and I'll give you another pup from the next litter" when the owner is already very attached to the pup they have. Not saying it's the case here but I think it's very presumptive to think the breeder will take care of everything when you've seen repeatedly that it doesn't always happen. If you personally know this breeder and can guarantee their support then that's great but it's advice that's given on this forum as the big cure-all every time there is a problem and it sometimes leaves newbie dog owners in a bad place. I do and I can I have one of their dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) An assumption that is constantly made on this forum when no other advice is given besides "ring the breeder". Not all breeders will point people in the right direction. You are completely right Pointeeblab. I have found that from direct personal experience. But I strongly suspect SBT does know who this breeder is, as I do. Perhaps we should have been clearer we had some confidence in their interest and support because of that. Edited November 23, 2009 by Diva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Perhaps we should have been clearer we had some confidence in their interest and support because of that. Yep - and as I've stated, if you can be sure of her support then that is excellent in this case. Unfortunately it's advice that's given far too often as the solution that will take care of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Talked to the breeder and i now have a direction to go in. will be back later to go into more detail. Feel so bad that he had a reaction. Just thought i was doing the right thing. bashing myself up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Don't bash yourself up - any vet that gives a C5 to an 11 week old pup should be strung up IMNSHO. Add to that the fact that he doesn't appear to realise that elbow hygromas are caused by tired puppies/dogs dropping down quickly on hard surfaces. The leaked fluid protects the joint against any further trauma and will be totally reabsorbed by the body as long as the pup is prevented from continuing the practice for a while. Under no circumstances let a vet drain it as it will only make the problem worse and could cause infection. Any homeopath will be able to sell you some Thuja to treat the vaccinosis, this was used by my vet for many years for this problem. Some vitamin C won't hurt either. As this vet obviously has no clue whatsoever about sighthounds under no circumstances let him do xrays. He probably doesn't know that a general anaesthetic can be lethal for sighthounds if the wrong one is used, many have been killed by incompetent vets that don't know of the anaesthetic issues, especially in pups. If the vet nurse didn't know how to spell the breed it would be fairly safe to say that he has little to no experience with it and shouldn't be allowed to inflict any further damage on the poor baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) At this stage i'm more concerned about the reaction to the C5. He is much better but still tender. We'll be giving him some homeopathic remedies to help his system. The breeder was shocked at the vets diagnosis. From what i've read of borzois and of elbow and hip dysplasia it just does not make sense. Just got another call from my breeder, she talked to another breeder and she also hasn't ever heard of dysplasia in borzoi. Apparently a borzoi pups natural clumsy gait and odd development can be confused with joint issues, but its not. before the vax there was no pain. I feel a lot better and i'm being referred to a vet with sighthound experience. eta. yep getting Thuja, and we wont be xraying. will see what the other vet says also but i really do trust my breeder. she has always had the best interest of the dogs in mind. Edited November 24, 2009 by pixie_meg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I dont care how magical a vet thinks they are you cannot correctly diagnose HD/ED with touch, especially in a large/giant growing puppy. They go through all sorts of phases as they grow so x-ray by someone experienced in the breed is the ONLY way to go if you are absolutely desperate and the dog is showing signs of needing it to be done to prevent suffering. Find a new vet, and by the siggy your dog is not too thin at all. I think the vet needs to go see what some sighthounds actually look like before making sweeping comments like they have to you and panic you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sound like you have a plan of attack. That's great I hope all is well and you can stop being so stressed! Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Talked to the breeder and i now have a direction to go in. will be back later to go into more detail. Good news. Fingers crossed that whatever it is turns out to be temporary and treatable and not ED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 That sounds promising pixie meg. I know I call my breeder if mine so much as farts and it smells a bit odd You are right about their level of concern, they take a great deal of care and pride in raising the pups the best they can and are there to help us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sound like you have a plan of attack. That's great I hope all is well and you can stop being so stressed!Good Luck stress levels are reducing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Sound like you have a plan of attack. That's great I hope all is well and you can stop being so stressed!Good Luck stress levels are reducing. Excellent - that is why I like to hear. Now hopefully you get some answers about your boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I know I call my breeder if mine so much as farts and it smells a bit odd Why would you do that? You're an experienced breeder yourself. Why don't you call your vet when you think your dog is unwell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I know I call my breeder if mine so much as farts and it smells a bit odd Why would you do that? You're an experienced breeder yourself. Why don't you call your vet when you think your dog is unwell? I call my breeder first as they know the dogs, know the lines, know the full history and I can say " have you ever had xyz ? " It's amazing the insight they can give you into one of their own. Unless it's an emergency, it's always breeder first for me, then the vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabrador Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I know I call my breeder if mine so much as farts and it smells a bit odd Why would you do that? You're an experienced breeder yourself. Why don't you call your vet when you think your dog is unwell? I call my breeder first as they know the dogs, know the lines, know the full history and I can say " have you ever had xyz ? " It's amazing the insight they can give you into one of their own. Unless it's an emergency, it's always breeder first for me, then the vet. "has your dog ever had stinky farts?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Any news on Oberon as yet? Hope all is well :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_meg Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 He is rather perky today, even doing some zoomies without complaint. He still has some tenderness. I did some googling and got some borzoi pics and videos and Oberon is definitely not skinny and his gait is the same as the other puppies i saw on video. I'll be contacting a vet down at dayboro to give Oberon a once over. the vet owns a pharaoh hound so sounds positive that she'll have more experience with sighthounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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