Puppy Preschool Programs

[lappiemum]

Hi DoLers -

Saw this when I was trawling through doggy websites (yes, I'm a nerd!) and was interested in this opinion - what do people here think of puppy preschools in general - are they a good thing for socialisation and an introduction to basic obedience, or do they do more harm than good? (note: The bolded bits I have highlighted )

This is from AusDog Training site: http://www.dogtrainingaustralia.com.au/Con...d-selection.seo

Puppy Pre-Schools

We totally disagree with this concept. People are generally told this is important for socialisation. Nothing in our opinion could be further from the truth. Puppies do not socialise with dogs out of their pack in strange environments. The highest percentage of dogs we attend to with anti social and undesirable behaviour have been to puppy pre-schools.

The first 18 weeks in a pup's life is the most crucial learning period therefore pups should be trained and handled correctly in and around their own environment.

Owners should only accept advice from a very experienced dog trainer in relation to puppy rearing and training to suit their individual pup's character and temperament .

Do you feel you have no control?

AUSDOG produce results fast and in an easy to understand way that will provide you, your family including children with education and understanding on how to correctly manage and handle your new pup and bring balance back into your life!

AUSDOG specialise in providing you with the right advice when it comes to managing your puppy's rearing and training;

Puppy Obedience

Toilet Training management

Conditioning and Socialising your puppy in realistic conditions

Sleeping and Feeding arrangements

Jumping on people issues

Nipping, Mouthing or biting

Chewing

Overly excitable puppies

Setting boundaries at home

Edited November 22, 2009 by lappiemum

[Cosmolo]

A good puppy school is very beneficial IMO but a bad one can do serious damage. Puppy pre schools should be run by qualified experienced people who have experience with puppies and adults alike. I think a trainer who has seen how many dogs develop from critical period to adulthood will have a better understanding of early warning signs and socialising during the critical period than one who has not.

I hear horror stories about puppy school too. But i also hear horror stories about obedience schools and private trainers. Does this mean people shouldn't utilise any of these things? No- it means they should do some research and find a good quality one!

[The Spotted Devil]

The highest percentage of dogs we attend to with anti social and undesirable behaviour have been to puppy pre-schools

I would suggest, from a scientific point of view, that this is merely an association and does not indicate causation. I suspect you might find factors associated with those people who choose to go to puppy school that are precursors for "anti social and undesirable behaviour" - particularly that these people are probably more likely to be inexperienced dog owners.

Definitely agree that that are good and bad puppy schools though

[lappiemum]

A good puppy school is very beneficial IMO but a bad one can do serious damage. Puppy pre schools should be run by qualified experienced people who have experience with puppies and adults alike. I think a trainer who has seen how many dogs develop from critical period to adulthood will have a better understanding of early warning signs and socialising during the critical period than one who has not.

I hear horror stories about puppy school too. But i also hear horror stories about obedience schools and private trainers. Does this mean people shouldn't utilise any of these things? No- it means they should do some research and find a good quality one!

Yes, I was thinking pretty much the same thing.

[lappiemum]

The highest percentage of dogs we attend to with anti social and undesirable behaviour have been to puppy pre-schools

I would suggest, from a scientific point of view, that this is merely an association and does not indicate causation. I suspect you might find factors associated with those people who choose to go to puppy school that are precursors for "anti social and undesirable behaviour" - particularly that these people are probably more likely to be inexperienced dog owners.

Definitely agree that that are good and bad puppy schools though

Yes, i thought the assertion was more to do with association - it is unlikley that they would be going out to non-problem dogs that had attended PPS.

[rexiam]

Molly & Chuzzy both attended puppy preschool and loved it. I was really happy with the whole thing and would happily do it again.

I would ask around , check it out, before I took my dog to any Puppy Preschool. Just to make sure what they were like.

Miss 8 took Molly and it gave her so much more confidence in handling and training.

[JulesP]

I teach the next level up from Puppy Pre-school. There is a definite difference in the pups that have been to our puppy pre-school. They are much more out-going and settled. But they do all ready know the other pups.

At the end of the 8 week course though there isn't much difference between the classes of pups that went to PPS and those that didn't. I have to work much harder with the pups that haven't been to puppy pre-school. I prefer the pups that have done nothing though to the ones that have been to other puppy pre-schools, there is some weird teaching going on out there!

[Nekhbet]

I think puppy preschools are extremely valuable and everyone with a pup should attend. That way any problems or gap in the knowledge are caught early and people understand what they have actually gotten themselves into and what they need to do

saying that I have heard some absolutely idiotic and dangerous things come from puppy preschools. Throwing cans towards pups, scuffing and roughly pinning, smacking pups etc or conversely not telling puppies off at all, allowing mouthing etc

how is the average jo meant to know what is a good preschool and what is not? If it has a big flashy sign or its in a big shop/vet clinic they trust the trainer to know what they're on about.

[helen]

I definately agree with Nekhbet.

A good place to begin looking for a good puppy school is these two sites

http://www.apdt.com.au/

http://www.deltasocietyaustralia.com.au/cg...ctors_index.htm

Also there is loads of great information on raising puppies can be found here http://www.k9events.com/pups.html

The k9events link also has loads of valuable info for breeders

Edited November 22, 2009 by helen

[Kelpie-i]

Agree entirely with the sentiments of others re good and bad PPS.

I would also add that Ausdog are a franchise that do not run classes, just private training, therefore I believe this to be more of a marketing ploy on their behalf.

The first 18 weeks in a pup's life is the most crucial learning period therefore pups should be trained and handled correctly in and around their own environment.

Not entirely correct (highlighted part) since the critical socialisation period is the first 16 weeks, not 18 weeks. Scientific data has shown that 80% of the puppy's brain growth ( ie, makes the relevant cell connections) based on the various exposure provided to the puppies, occurs in the first 16 weeks of life. The remaining 20% occurs from 17 weeks to 12 months, in which time the growth rate of the brain slows down significantly.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Kelpie-i

[Nekhbet]

At the same time Helen people have to understand that both those sites you place are 'purely positive' and do not necessarily agree with e-collars, prong collars and even check chains. Some of the trainers may not agree with any physical punishment at all. If that is also the owners philosophy then go right ahead and choose the preschool with an experienced, logical trainer that can think on their feet.

I also do not like the letter from the apdt website that pushes that prongs remain banned in Victoria. It is a well respected piece of equipment around the world and has saved many a dog from being too much for its owner. We're backward enough in this state when it comes to how we treat our dogs and how little we appreciate working breeds and their needs without letters like that.

Not saying any of this equipment should be used on a young pup but for people to understand what their puppy preschool trainer believes in and what methods they refuse to use. I would rather a person with an all round understanding then someone who only utilises one corner of overall dog training methods - a dog is living creature with its little quirks and you have to be flexible enough to say 'ok well this one needs ***** because other things are not working well enough for this dog or the owners capabilities'.

ETA I try and get clients to do more work in the 8-12 week period then wait and try and cram it in (when they eventually remember) 12-14 weeks. SOme dogs start teething after this and they're cranky anyway

Edited November 22, 2009 by Nekhbet

[Ons]

I liked going to puppy school with Tilly, I had never lived in a town before where there was puppy school when I had a pup.

She was a big older than the other pups because we had only just moved.

The only trouble is that it only lasted three weeks, would have been much better for four or five weeks for her

Tilly is a very submissive dog and unsure of new situations. She really didn't get any confidence to play with any of the pups until the third week but she loved the people there and she loved the barbeque chicken they gave as treats

she also got to socialise with children which she hadn't had any contact with, they loved her and played with her more than their own dog

Best thing I thought though was because it was at the vets that she associated going to the vets with good things

I would go just for the social event and doesn't everyone love to talk about and show off their pups! I didn't agree with everything the teacher said but that didn't mean I had to do it.

[Nekhbet]

Best thing I thought though was because it was at the vets that she associated going to the vets with good things

another big plus

I ran one at a vet clinic years ago and the puppies went from 'this smells funny' to

OMG THIS IS THE BEST PLACE EVER

They all cam bounding in the door when they needed a vet visit

[poodlefan]

These programs are only as good as the trainer conducting them.

What they are NOT, is the only place a pup should be socialised nor the only training pup owners need to undertake to set their pup up well for life. Sadly, that's how some puppy owners seem to view them.

[Nekhbet]

Sadly, that's how some puppy owners seem to view them.

ahh yes the old 'but he went to puppy preschool!'

a pity not more PPs are attached to bigger schools or have relationships with clubs so they progress straight from there to level 1

[Staff'n'Toller]

Sadly, that's how some puppy owners seem to view them.

ahh yes the old 'but he went to puppy preschool!'

a pity not more PPs are attached to bigger schools or have relationships with clubs so they progress straight from there to level 1

I think a lot actually do give direct recommendations (I know I do, and three other colleagues who do) but the psyche of the owners has to change.

[corvus]

Depends on the dog and the style of the class. I have taken both Kivi and Erik to different puppy classes and think that it was very beneficial for them, especially Erik, who came to me feeling a bit leery of new things and just really needed some early, gentle socialisation. On the other hand, my mother took a very fearful puppy to a class that insisted puppies should play with each other and it really set him on the road to disaster. The class I took Erik to encouraged owners with shy puppies to let their pups stay back and interact with the other dogs on their own. Even this would have been too much for my mother's fearful puppy (who, incidentally, ended up being human and dog aggressive). I don't think the puppy class was soley to blame for what happened by any stretch, but it didn't help.

[Sarah8]

i agree, good pps classes can be an amazing tool- bad ones can be a recipie for disaster. it would be better if they were controlled more.

[Erny]

I also do not like the letter from the apdt website that pushes that prongs remain banned in Victoria. It is a well respected piece of equipment around the world and has saved many a dog from being too much for its owner. We're backward enough in this state when it comes to how we treat our dogs and how little we appreciate working breeds and their needs without letters like that.

Is this a new letter in more recent times (I wouldn't know, because APDT kicked me out because I publicly campaigned to try to change Victorian law on this, so I don't get their newsletters anymore ..... have to rely on others to let me know the goss ), or is it the same one they put out when I was busy campaigning? IE The one that in essence says they don't like it because they think positive methods are better, and then includes a footnote reference to the "American Human Society's Guide to Humane Dog Training", which, to the unsuspecting might be thought of as a book that supports their view, yet actually includes reference in it about the PPCollar to the effect that it recommends this collar as an alternative humane dog training restraint????

Not saying any of this equipment should be used on a young pup but for people to understand what their puppy preschool trainer believes in and what methods they refuse to use. I would rather a person with an all round understanding then someone who only utilises one corner of overall dog training methods - a dog is living creature with its little quirks and you have to be flexible enough to say 'ok well this one needs ***** because other things are not working well enough for this dog or the owners capabilities'.

Agree with this.

ETA I try and get clients to do more work in the 8-12 week period then wait and try and cram it in (when they eventually remember) 12-14 weeks. SOme dogs start teething after this and they're cranky anyway

Agree with this too . What people don't realise is that socialisation to one thing might need several visits, each graduating up in intensity. They tend to think that all they need to do is go out, visit once, and that's it. They don't take into account the possibility that their pup might have an aversion to what they are socialising/habituating to and hence need to go at it slowly and incrementally. All of a sudden, the crucial time has run out. And they are limited in their ideas of socialisation/habituation by their own imagination.

I think PPSchool is a good thing because it serves as an early educational platform for the OWNERS.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Erny