huski Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Dova, I'm far from having a proper formal retrieve but I used the basic idea from Shirley Chong's article on how to teach dumbell retrieval - I marked/rewarded for any action towards the dumbell and went from there. http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Ok I think I have a "proper" problem now! So we are training for UD and in the last few weeks we've finally got the directed jumping exercise together into one peice, however just in the last few sessions she keeps heading over the same jump (left hand when facing box) on the way out to the box. I know she is still very much a novice dog at all this so understand why she's getting confused but I want to check what different suggestions people might have on dealing with this. I'm going to separate it back into two parts (the send away and the directed jumps) and only put them fully together every once in a while, is this what most people do? Have you taught your dog to "sight" the box? Have you put the box in different locations (tall grass etc) and sent her? Have you done the box from multiple distances? Yes she sights the box, yes I have moved the box around and sent her to it and yes I've done it from many distances. She had no problems with going between the jumps etc when I first put the two parts together but after asking her to go to the box and then go over a jump she has started to go over a jump on the way to the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) What about things in the path to the box - I have used jump bars on the ground, tipped over BJ boards, toys etc. Edited January 5, 2010 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi Seita, that's a really common problem for a novice UD dog. Not to worry, all it means is that you have moved a few steps too fast and you just need to take it back to sending her from halfway (between the jumps) and then you back up to present the full picture to her by the time she's in the box. It's also a really good idea to split all the components of DJ like Caffy said. Can you move the box to a corner in your training area without the jumps and send her and can she find it? In long grass without the usual sight picture to guide her? These things need to be taught separately so she really understands and is actively looking for the box. Ok I think I have a "proper" problem now! So we are training for UD and in the last few weeks we've finally got the directed jumping exercise together into one peice, however just in the last few sessions she keeps heading over the same jump (left hand when facing box) on the way out to the box. I know she is still very much a novice dog at all this so understand why she's getting confused but I want to check what different suggestions people might have on dealing with this. I'm going to separate it back into two parts (the send away and the directed jumps) and only put them fully together every once in a while, is this what most people do? Have you taught your dog to "sight" the box? Have you put the box in different locations (tall grass etc) and sent her? Have you done the box from multiple distances? Yes she sights the box, yes I have moved the box around and sent her to it and yes I've done it from many distances. She had no problems with going between the jumps etc when I first put the two parts together but after asking her to go to the box and then go over a jump she has started to go over a jump on the way to the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) I will also add make sure you take it to different places other than your yard/usual training places. I was I guess a bit taken by surprise when I took the box to the school oval after we had played agility and tried sending Kenzie to it and she has no idea. She has a much better understanding of going to the box regardless of where it is and regardless of how many distractions might be out (including bars on the ground, upturned BJ boards etc) yet I tried a simple one with her and she had no idea. I know dogs don't generalize but she would usually generalize other behaviors a lot better then that. One good point I got from Sue H when Ness had box issues while I was over in WA last time lesson was to never have the box in the same spot. Once they have been there once the second time should be a piece of cake so when specifically training the box its better to keep moving it around so they learn the exercise as go and sit in the box rather than go and sit within x number of meters or between the tree and the other tree or on a particular patch of grass. So I'd set her up and send her - she would get rewarded for being successful and then we would move the box - even if it was only a half a meter. Edited January 5, 2010 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Dova, I'm far from having a proper formal retrieve but I used the basic idea from Shirley Chong's article on how to teach dumbell retrieval - I marked/rewarded for any action towards the dumbell and went from there. http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve.html Thanks huski that gives me some where to start from, if I don't start now we won't be even nearly ready for the next grade . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 What about things in the path to the box - I have used jump bars on the ground, tipped over BJ boards, toys etc. Haven't got to this stage yet. I will definitely do a bit of it once she can run passed the two jumps and go directly to the box. I took everything to the park today and set the box in some longish grass (you could just see the box) and sent her from a reasonable distance and she took off on a random angle but once she spotted the box she ran straight to it without any probs. I am fairly certain she understands the command box and what that means I think she just got confused when I started asking her to jump after going to the box and she thought she should go over the jumps on both ways! I figured it would be a fairly common green UD dog problem. So I've increased the number of sends to the box passed the jumps without going to do the directed jumping and already in a few sessions she's getting much more reliable with it. Ok another one now! For those who teach their dogs to track or those who teach their dogs to retrieve the seek back by smell not by sight. I know you WAers tend to teach by sight and why wouldn't you if there are such lovely grounds over there! Unfortunately we're not so blessed with nice LEVEL grounds here so Ella needs to find it by scent. She always finds it but is very random in her direction and can often wander quite a distance from where I've walked. I'd like to teach her to follow the track a bit closer if possible but am not entirely sure what the best way to do this might be... any suggestions?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Ness was taught the same way the WA people teach and she tracks hers back from me - but no point in explaining if you already know that method. She has only ever missed 1 in her entire life and our grounds are anything but bowling greens. Edited January 6, 2010 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffy Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 [Ok another one now! For those who teach their dogs to track or those who teach their dogs to retrieve the seek back by smell not by sight. I know you WAers tend to teach by sight and why wouldn't you if there are such lovely grounds over there! Unfortunately we're not so blessed with nice LEVEL grounds here so Ella needs to find it by scent. She always finds it but is very random in her direction and can often wander quite a distance from where I've walked. I'd like to teach her to follow the track a bit closer if possible but am not entirely sure what the best way to do this might be... any suggestions?? I didn't teach it by sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Well I've done two sessions on the RATs with the head turn and the clicker. To start with I exaggerated the head turn and then quickly faded it as I could see Darcy turning faster and tighter. Second session last night she was turning much better and I've figured out that while my footwork is greatly improved I still need to stick an extra short step in coming out of the turn in order to give her time to catch me. We'll continue working on it - she picks this stuff up so fast once I put my mind to it. So tomorrow night we have our first Novice run through with a friend who is an aspiring Novice judge so I hope we can pull the entire thing together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 [Ok another one now! For those who teach their dogs to track or those who teach their dogs to retrieve the seek back by smell not by sight. I know you WAers tend to teach by sight and why wouldn't you if there are such lovely grounds over there! Unfortunately we're not so blessed with nice LEVEL grounds here so Ella needs to find it by scent. She always finds it but is very random in her direction and can often wander quite a distance from where I've walked. I'd like to teach her to follow the track a bit closer if possible but am not entirely sure what the best way to do this might be... any suggestions?? I didn't teach it by sight. Care to share your method? From other posts by some ppl from WA I got the impression that the exercise was mostly taught by sight, I appologise if I was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Not sure if Caffy teaches it the way I did but yes to start with its by sight but they do learn to track. Ness is still relatively inexperienced in UD yet was the only dog who successfully found her seekback in one ring when all the more experienced dogs messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Not necessarily taught by sight but as our grounds do tend to be well manicured my dogs will default to looking first and then using their noses if they can't find it. Smart really but not much help to you sorry I know many tracking people teach it purely by following a track. [Ok another one now! For those who teach their dogs to track or those who teach their dogs to retrieve the seek back by smell not by sight. I know you WAers tend to teach by sight and why wouldn't you if there are such lovely grounds over there! Unfortunately we're not so blessed with nice LEVEL grounds here so Ella needs to find it by scent. She always finds it but is very random in her direction and can often wander quite a distance from where I've walked. I'd like to teach her to follow the track a bit closer if possible but am not entirely sure what the best way to do this might be... any suggestions?? I didn't teach it by sight. Care to share your method? From other posts by some ppl from WA I got the impression that the exercise was mostly taught by sight, I appologise if I was wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffy Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Not necessarily taught by sight but as our grounds do tend to be well manicured my dogs will default to looking first and then using their noses if they can't find it. Smart really but not much help to you sorry I know many tracking people teach it purely by following a track.[ I don't think the guys used sight at the river in all the leaves ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 True There was no way they could have sighted it in all that! Not necessarily taught by sight but as our grounds do tend to be well manicured my dogs will default to looking first and then using their noses if they can't find it. Smart really but not much help to you sorry I know many tracking people teach it purely by following a track.[ I don't think the guys used sight at the river in all the leaves ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Well I've done two sessions on the RATs with the head turn and the clicker. To start with I exaggerated the head turn and then quickly faded it as I could see Darcy turning faster and tighter. Second session last night she was turning much better and I've figured out that while my footwork is greatly improved I still need to stick an extra short step in coming out of the turn in order to give her time to catch me. We'll continue working on it - she picks this stuff up so fast once I put my mind to it. So tomorrow night we have our first Novice run through with a friend who is an aspiring Novice judge so I hope we can pull the entire thing together. Good work Jess and how easy was that to fix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Good work Jess and how easy was that to fix Easy when you know how! Thanks again :D We did our Novice run through tonight, I have a few things I need to work on but I was rapt with her heeling given that's what we've struggled so much with. We went all the way through, no food reward until the end. She was not 100% switched on for the first 10 to 15 seconds of her heeling but from then on she was fine. Turns were all fast and drivey, which is the first thing she loses if she's starting to switch off so that was great. At point we ended up doing figure of 8 over the top of her reward and she did a great job of staying focussed. ;) I need to work on my straight lines (recall, change of positions and stand for exam all crooked!) and be careful with my hands as I moved them several times during the recall. Seems I've also lost my formerly automatic left and right foot work for leaving and stopping, and some work on which way is left and right might be handy too! :D Looks like Darcy gets the week off obedience for good behaviour and I get to go back to obedience basics 101 bootcamp. :D Anyone have any ideas for getting this stuff down so it's automatic - no-one really local who can help me and it's a 2.5 hour round trip to class on Thursday so any assistance for doing it alone would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Video video video ;) oh and video some more. Then sit back and watch and pick it to bits . Says me who doesn't do enough of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Well done Jess One tip for remembering right and left turns is left is always into your dog...right then takes care of itself Good work Jess and how easy was that to fix ;) Easy when you know how! Thanks again :D We did our Novice run through tonight, I have a few things I need to work on but I was rapt with her heeling given that's what we've struggled so much with. We went all the way through, no food reward until the end. She was not 100% switched on for the first 10 to 15 seconds of her heeling but from then on she was fine. Turns were all fast and drivey, which is the first thing she loses if she's starting to switch off so that was great. At point we ended up doing figure of 8 over the top of her reward and she did a great job of staying focussed. I need to work on my straight lines (recall, change of positions and stand for exam all crooked!) and be careful with my hands as I moved them several times during the recall. Seems I've also lost my formerly automatic left and right foot work for leaving and stopping, and some work on which way is left and right might be handy too! ;) Looks like Darcy gets the week off obedience for good behaviour and I get to go back to obedience basics 101 bootcamp. Anyone have any ideas for getting this stuff down so it's automatic - no-one really local who can help me and it's a 2.5 hour round trip to class on Thursday so any assistance for doing it alone would be great. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathq Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Well done Jess One tip for remembering right and left turns is left is always into your dog...right then takes care of itself ;) Dont worry Jess, we have all forgotten which is left and which is right even in run outs from nerves. I actually had an old time senior judge tell me that same little tip in the ring when I first started trialling. And it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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