Rivsky Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 And yet another question.....Does your dog actually know what a jackpot is - how do they react when you say the word??? and looking at Rivsky's post is there an age/stage/training level that you introduce a jackpot???? Yep both my two understand what a jackpot is. I like to think of jackpots as an extra reward for extra effort from the dog regardless of their age, training level/stage - whether it's an exercise they know really well and have just done a spot on job with or had some extra distractions or something to work through and succeeded or it's a relatively new exercise that they've struggled a bit to "get" and the first time they do it well I will often use a jackpot as a way of communicating to them that whatever they just did was exactly what I was looking for and generally speaking have found that once I've been able to do this that they both have a much better understanding of that exercise. I have read a few times though that some people don't seem to like using jackpots in the learning stages as they find it interferes with the dog's learning process and makes them less keen to do any work after that, so would be interested to hear what others have found with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 It's just the stays. I think he whines because nothings happening(he's very impatient) and me leaving him. I don't think it's anything to do with the other dogs because he's not very interested in other dogs. I have had a similar problem with Daisy barking during stays. What do you do when he barks? I have been giving a NRM so she learns that barking = no opportunity to earn a reward. Do you then set her back up in the stay and stand closer/have her stay for less time so she'll get it right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Kenzie likes to vocalise when we do things occasionally. Not so much obedience exercise yet but a lot of her tricks can't be completed without the occasional woof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Tiggy has Banjo always been vocal? My new baby is a screamer in day to day life, but so far it hasn't carried over into training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Any idea why it hasn't Ptolomy and do you have any strategies in mind should it start to carry over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I have a whinger here I've just about fixed it (fingers crossed) - I think it arises with Ziggy because he is a bit conflicted.....he knows the "job" requires him to stay still but he's bored to tears and busting to find out what the dogs smell like around him. To overcome it I went back to reinforcing regularly when training - but only when he was quiet and looking me in the eye. When he is focussed on me he can't look around and day dream about what the other dogs are up to. I've progressed to training for out of sight stays (with me hidden behind shrubs) and he seems quite relaxed but focussed still. I did get fed up once in training and said "shoosh!" - he was so shocked he shut up so I quickly walked back and reinforced ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Any idea why it hasn't Ptolomy and do you have any strategies in mind should it start to carry over? I would guess that she is not vocal in training because the training reinforcement rate is still very high and everything is new and fun. I also tend to only get her out for a few minutes each session and there is not a lot of down time - so she tends to be very focused and we finished while she still wants more. Over the weekend I have introduced her to sitting in the hoop and I did wait her out a couple of times and still no noise - so fingers crossed the noise factor does have an on off switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 That raises an interesting question - do people think there are different types of vocalisation and if so what types and therefore different methods of dealing with it. Is it possible to totally remove vocalisation out of excitement for the task at hand. I know in my situation the level of vocalisation is in part due to the level of arousal and the level of excitement for the game. It does not appear to be affected by rate of reinforcement or the amount of down time. I also know the way I am dealing with it is to give her a short time out by using having her drop and then repeat and reward if she completes it successfully without the barking. It does seem to be working and her vocalisation behavior isn't carrying through into her obedience work either but I do know of dogs who for instance will bark on the way out to complete a sendaway who are otherwise quiet dogs so wonder if there is a way to keep the enthusiasm but without the additional noise. Does anybody believe the vocalisation is a result of frustration in the dog - suppose that is a bit along the lines of what Ptolomy was getting at with a high level of reinforcement and very little down time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Interesting question. I know with my first trial dog, my first BC Sam, if I could get him excited to the point of 'barking mad', he would have enough confidence to do his scent discrimination in the ring. If he gave a woof on the way ouit, I knew we were likely to be successful - so in his case, I think the woof was an excited one. (This was a few years ago, before the really positive training days - he could do SD perfectly in training, but it would come apart in the ring - my nerves would get to him I think. I remember Luci Ellem one day looking at him standing over the correct article he'd just identified, and saying "Help me, mummy, I need my sucky rug" - she was so right. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiggy Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Tiggy has Banjo always been vocal?My new baby is a screamer in day to day life, but so far it hasn't carried over into training. Yes Banjo has always been vocal. He screams when he's excited and he's very talkative . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Ok going to bump this thread with a new training question - I am day 3 of teaching my youngster articles. Now we have our fetching metal article issue sorted we have got to work on teaching scent. She has played baby scent work when she was younger of finding different objects in long grass. She is also a mad obsessive retriever. I have been following the dog scout method and quickly got to having 4 unscented with 1 scented (playing the game with both woods and metals). She is about 90% but all she is doing is fetching whatever I throw. When she occassionally brings back a wrong article I have either taken it off her and then got the correct one and thrown it or sent her back and she has sometimes returned with the correctly scented article. I have got her involved in playing tug and placed the scented article out without her looking and she can do it but she seems to go straight to the correct one. I still don't think she is actually scenting anything and is just fetching what she feels like. Anybody got any ideas for getting her to scent them rather than fetch them. I am not sure what to do next as we have had 2 sessions in a row with a similar outcome - she gets the correct article most of the time but I am not convinced its not just due to fluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seita Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Ok going to bump this thread with a new training question - I am day 3 of teaching my youngster articles. Now we have our fetching metal article issue sorted we have got to work on teaching scent. She has played baby scent work when she was younger of finding different objects in long grass. She is also a mad obsessive retriever. I have been following the dog scout method and quickly got to having 4 unscented with 1 scented (playing the game with both woods and metals). She is about 90% but all she is doing is fetching whatever I throw. When she occassionally brings back a wrong article I have either taken it off her and then got the correct one and thrown it or sent her back and she has sometimes returned with the correctly scented article. I have got her involved in playing tug and placed the scented article out without her looking and she can do it but she seems to go straight to the correct one. I still don't think she is actually scenting anything and is just fetching what she feels like. Anybody got any ideas for getting her to scent them rather than fetch them. I am not sure what to do next as we have had 2 sessions in a row with a similar outcome - she gets the correct article most of the time but I am not convinced its not just due to fluke. Walk out and place the scented article amoung the others, that way she can't see where it lands as easily. Also someone suggested putting things like cans in the middle of the pile as well so it was harder to just grab an article. Long grass was helpful for us as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 That is the problem Seita - when I walk out and place it she has no idea most of the time. I am just not sure how to progress it when she isn't actually scenting - or at least it doesn't appear to me she is. I don't understand how she can see it land when I am blocking her view and yet she still races straight out and grabs the correct article without a second thought. We also have longish grass. I know I went to the cans with Ness later on in the game not when she was learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Koori was doing this too, not scenting just grabbing. I took to putting the articles out in long grass, as in mid calf height, and setting them out with her in a drop stay facing away from me. That seemed to help but having said that I'd done foundation tracking work with Koori too so she will put her head down to scent when you say find it was more a case of encouraging her to scent each article than to scent at all. Just a thought Ness, I've never done UD just played around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 What she is doing is pretty normal at this early stage of training. I would start scent training with non-trialling articles anyway. That way if stuff goes wrong you wont be loading your trialling articles with associated problems. I have a collection of found objects....a peice of PVC pipe or joiners, large plastic clothes pegs, sticks from the garden, spoons etc. anything that is not going to cause injury and she can physically retrieve. If she wont retreive different items then you know what you need to work on first Ok going to bump this thread with a new training question - I am day 3 of teaching my youngster articles. Now we have our fetching metal article issue sorted we have got to work on teaching scent. She has played baby scent work when she was younger of finding different objects in long grass. She is also a mad obsessive retriever. I have been following the dog scout method and quickly got to having 4 unscented with 1 scented (playing the game with both woods and metals). She is about 90% but all she is doing is fetching whatever I throw. When she occassionally brings back a wrong article I have either taken it off her and then got the correct one and thrown it or sent her back and she has sometimes returned with the correctly scented article. I have got her involved in playing tug and placed the scented article out without her looking and she can do it but she seems to go straight to the correct one. I still don't think she is actually scenting anything and is just fetching what she feels like. Anybody got any ideas for getting her to scent them rather than fetch them. I am not sure what to do next as we have had 2 sessions in a row with a similar outcome - she gets the correct article most of the time but I am not convinced its not just due to fluke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 We have done that before bedazzled - since the Sue seminar back in April - whenever we have gone out on our walks up the bush track over winter I always had something different on me that I would have her scent out. If I have had a stick and hidden it in the grass she always only retrieved the one that had my scent on it. I have had her find bits of paper in long grass etc. So we have done the sticks/balls/any object/pencils/pens/seekback article in the long grass etc she has always been very good at that game. Retrieving anything isn't her issue now, thanks to that wonderful magic fairy dust . I just went back and looked at the instructions I got when I taught Ness and its possible that I have rushed it and need to go back to doing more repetitions with less articles out. I just got it into my mind that we got to 4 quite quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Thats a good start Ness but you need to progress so that you can put out 15 different found articles and she can do a full UD scent with them. Of course you need to build slowly and keep her successful in each stage. Give it a go We have done that before bedazzled - since the Sue seminar back in April - whenever we have gone out on our walks up the bush track over winter I always had something different on me that I would have her scent out. If I have had a stick and hidden it in the grass she always only retrieved the one that had my scent on it. I have had her find bits of paper in long grass etc. So we have done the sticks/balls/any object/pencils/pens/seekback article in the long grass etc she has always been very good at that game. Retrieving anything isn't her issue now, thanks to that wonderful magic fairy dust . I just went back and looked at the instructions I got when I taught Ness and its possible that I have rushed it and need to go back to doing more repetitions with less articles out. I just got it into my mind that we got to 4 quite quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Hmmm must have missed that bit in the translation . Although why would you just not start on articles then or have I completely missed something . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Because if things go wrong you haven't screwed up an association with your trialling articles. Its a scent game and teaches both of you scent discrimination without the stress of the real thing. Hmmm must have missed that bit in the translation . Although why would you just not start on articles then or have I completely missed something . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 (edited) Fair enough - and here I was thinking I'd get one exercise finished just like how it should for a trial rather than a million half started exercise - it appears not. Not sure why I am bothering not like she will get in a ring anyway ever. Edited December 29, 2009 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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