Obedience Troubleshooting

[RubyStar]

First day of dumbell training and third training session, she learns to pick it up off the ground, I couldn't be more chuffed!

Great going, huski!!!!! It took Millie AGES to pick the dumbell up, so I know what hard work goes into shaping the retrieve if you've got a dog who doesn't like taking weird things in their mouth! Now I'm stuck on the length of time she will hold it before she spits it out. Which is the step I was stuck on with Ruby for what seemed like an eternity (as the rest of it she somehow already knew, didn't have to shape it with her like I've had to with Millie ) One day, Ruby's lightbulb lit up and she started really holding it. I'm hoping Millie's lightbulb goes off soon But I don't practice it all that often

Edited January 1, 2010 by RubyStar

[huski]

Thanks RS First training session this morning and she was quite consistently picking it up and bringing it to me over a short distance. Drops it as soon as I mark it She couldn't spit it out fast enough when she knows food is coming!

I meant to ask, what command word do people use for the retrieve? I'm not doing any more than pointing at the dumbell now, but I'm curious what command everyone uses?

Edited January 2, 2010 by huski

[kallistar]

Thanks RS First training session this morning and she was quite consistently picking it up and bringing it to me over a short distance. Drops it as soon as I mark it She couldn't spit it out fast enough when she knows food is coming!

I meant to ask, what command word do people use for the retrieve? I'm not doing any more than pointing at the dumbell now, but I'm curious what command everyone uses?

Just thought that I'd jump in here and say that it really up to you what word you use. I use the word Dumbell, but others might use fetch or get.. Will be interested in hearing what other words others use too.

[Seita]

Thanks RS First training session this morning and she was quite consistently picking it up and bringing it to me over a short distance. Drops it as soon as I mark it She couldn't spit it out fast enough when she knows food is coming!

I meant to ask, what command word do people use for the retrieve? I'm not doing any more than pointing at the dumbell now, but I'm curious what command everyone uses?

I use bring as fetch is a the kind of command that most people use (visitors, family etc included) and I want to keep my formal and play retrieves separate. I let people play 'fetch' with Ella for short sessions but no one is allowed to use the word 'bring' so she never gets to practice bad things with her formal retrieve word.

Also not sure if you've asked Steve about the retrieves yet? So that you don't end up with the same physcho picks up that I have, use the wagon wheel method (steve can explain it better than me) when you get to teaching her to go out and pick it up and bring it back.

[ness]

I use a generic command of "go" with my older girl and Kenz seems to have picked up on the same cue LOL. I am not so fussy about having an informal/formal retrieve word as there is too much context in a formal retrieve that indicates that is what is required. However I also don't allow balls or toys thrown at my feet when we do an informal retrieve - the only element that isn't the same is I seldom ask for a sit in front with an informal retrieve. Also body language plays a huge part as my "picture" to the dog when I want a formal present is tons different to me sitting on the ground or standing causually at the park.

Even my obsessive compulsive retrieving midget who will throw all 14kg of BC in my lap on a normal play retrieve has yet to try the same trick when retrieving a DB.

Edited January 2, 2010 by ness

[bedazzledx2]

The rules only require that you use a single word and it must be in English unless you are given permission by the Judge. It was only after I had the exercise fully trained I realised I had to think of a word and fetch seems logical :D I have judged a few people who have used 'get it' in the ring which is of course two words so against the rules.

Thanks RS :D First training session this morning and she was quite consistently picking it up and bringing it to me over a short distance. Drops it as soon as I mark it ;) She couldn't spit it out fast enough when she knows food is coming!

I meant to ask, what command word do people use for the retrieve? I'm not doing any more than pointing at the dumbell now, but I'm curious what command everyone uses?

Just thought that I'd jump in here and say that it really up to you what word you use. I use the word Dumbell, but others might use fetch or get.. Will be interested in hearing what other words others use too.

[caffy]

The rules only require that you use a single word and it must be in English unless you are given permission by the Judge. It was only after I had the exercise fully trained I realised I had to think of a word and fetch seems logical :D I have judged a few people who have used 'get it' in the ring which is of course two words so against the rules.

I ask my dogs to "line up" for heel position. I've never used the word "heel"...dunno why. But, of course, that gets cut back to "line" when doing a formal finish cos I may get the mean judge ;)

[ness]

like bedazzledx2 caffy :D .

[huski]

Thanks guys! She is picking it up quite consistently now. She's very excited about it :D I'm so pleased that she's cottoned on to it so quickly!

I think I might just go with 'fetch' for the command word as it will probably be the natural thing I say when I want her to get it ;)

Seita I haven't asked Steve about it, will have a chat to him about training a nice retrieve next time I email him.

I'd love to do a quick video to show you guys how she's picking it up, but I broke my laptop and I don't have film or editing software on the computer I'm using now Perhaps when I get my new laptop in a couple of weeks, she'll be closer to doing a more formal retrieve :D

Edited January 2, 2010 by huski

[huski]

Ok I found a way to upload videos on the computer I'm using, so here's a short one of Daisy from this afternoon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nen2CNq4ZMw

You can see how she nudges the dumbell with her nose in one shot, once I have her really reliably picking it up I'll work on only rewarding the times she picks it up without nudging it. She's probably not holding it far enough back in her mouth either (???) - lots to work on but considering yesterday was her first ever exposure to doing anything with the dumbell, I'm really pleased with how she's going.

[Tiggy]

She's doing really well Huski :D .

[ness]

Has any body got any thoughts in teaching gloves to retrieve driven dogs rather than food drive dogs. I just took 2 gloves out to try and the park with Kenzie and she is dead on with her marking and she picked it up like she had been doing it her entire life. I have done lots of marking with her ball and setting her up and having her take direction. She was even doing some very lovely presents. I haven't added the about turn into it as we need to work on that element separately. I was just having her take direction. I worry about skipping through the basics in case it comes back to bite me. I know what I did with Ness but she is purely food driven and couldn't care less about the actual retrieve. So if you didn't reward with food for an incorrect glove she realized she had made a mistake.

[The Spotted Devil]

ness, I remember Sue saying that even retrieve driven dogs should be trained with food so that the reward is coming back to you, not the retrieve itself if that makes sense. Even for retrieving trials, and you can't get any more driven than those dogs!!!

[ness]

TSD - yes I know what Sue says but what she says and what is reality don't make ends meet . Kenz is getting better on the whole food reward idea but still goes enough is enough bring out the REAL reward . Its a work in progress. She is better then when Sue was over though . Sue suggested at the time Kenz was much more toy motivated then food so keep using that ;) .

At the time she asked if I had ever conditions a toy to the clicker or bridge work - my answer was nope never have so she had me click and then offer the toy and of course Kenz took the toy as a reward. She said I was lucky as most dogs would have just held out for the food.

My concern was more the missing the basics (or rather having taught the basics using a toy rather than a food bowl) and not having the experience to know whether that was a correct move.

She has a truckload better "lock on" to the glove then Ness does even now.

Have just been outside doing a session - her broken COP has resolved, her recall presents which have been shitty as anything are not only straight from any angle but back to being close, I worked some about turns on the spot and some fast into slow pace transitions (yes I am cruel ;) ) now if only I could get around this OMG scary person shutdown thing she might see the inside of a trial ring this year.

Edited January 2, 2010 by ness

[Ptolomy]

Has any body got any thoughts in teaching gloves to retrieve driven dogs rather than food drive dogs. I just took 2 gloves out to try and the park with Kenzie and she is dead on with her marking and she picked it up like she had been doing it her entire life. I have done lots of marking with her ball and setting her up and having her take direction. She was even doing some very lovely presents. I haven't added the about turn into it as we need to work on that element separately. I was just having her take direction. I worry about skipping through the basics in case it comes back to bite me. I know what I did with Ness but she is purely food driven and couldn't care less about the actual retrieve. So if you didn't reward with food for an incorrect glove she realized she had made a mistake.

Take it from me.....I can hear Caffy saying to me months ago ......I need to go back to using food bowls....I need to go back to using food bowls.

When did I remember this - when Beans was sitting on a pass as we got to gloves, I about turned, gave her direction to glove 1, sent her and she started off towards glove 1 and then deviated to glove 2 ....I need to go back to using food bowls and not lump! BUGGER!

[ness]

Yes I had that very conversation in the back of my mind too Ptolomy . I am just convinced she won't understand food bowls. Maybe I need to take a step back and do ball the ballaholic version which is 3 identical balls , but the problem is there isn't a lack of reward if they get the wrong one. Hmmm thinking outside the square would it work if I placed a ball inside the bowl .

Interesting I just did 2 gloves outside in the yard and she was about 90% to the correct glove when the gloves were split less than a couple of meters. She has a lovely concept of run straight. I can call her back to me at the park if she has lost track of the ball (like gone off to chase Ness or something), put her into heel and she will take direction out and run straight to the ball at varying distances even if she can't see the ball she will race out until she hits it.

I can throw the gloves out and heel around and then have her halt, put my hand alongside her face and she will race out to the glove.

So I think she has a good understanding of taking direction but as Susan Garetts last blog post suggests would I bet $5 on it - nope .

Actually interesting blog post if anybody else hasn't seen it -

http://susangarrettdogagility.com/2009/12/...-challenge.html

While the context is agility related it is just as relevant to obedience . Ness would have me broke if I applied that to some of her work and whoever was watching and keeping score would be a millionare ;) .

Oh and yes you know me I LUMP bigtime ;) .

Edited January 2, 2010 by ness

[J...]

I only use a release word (ok) as my cue for retreiving the dumbell. Keen retreiver so she doesn't need much encouragement in that department.

Has anyone got any ideas for improving a right about turn?

Have worked on my footwork so I'm not leaving her behind any more and I've worked on all her other turns, including adding a u-turn instead of a LAT and I'm really happy with them. But our RAT needs work - she's lagging slightly and it's the only thing she does lag on.

I've tried turning and immediately throwing a toy or food as she comes around but it's still not great. Appears she's not reading the cue like she does for a left or left about turn?

[ness]

Are you working it through in slow pace. At what point does she start to lag. Maybe you need to break it down further so 1/4 turn at a time?

Have you done much right about turn work on the spot and if so does she still lag then?

[caffy]

Take it from me.....I can hear Caffy saying to me months ago ......I need to go back to using food bowls....I need to go back to using food bowls.

When did I remember this - when Beans was sitting on a pass as we got to gloves, I about turned, gave her direction to glove 1, sent her and she started off towards glove 1 and then deviated to glove 2 ....I need to go back to using food bowls and not lump! BUGGER!

Oh ye of little faith

I have taught directed retrieve to my non retriever using food bowls. He would prefer toys and tuggies but I found the use of food as a more easier way for learning to occur. You can throw toys for a faster, driven return and present.

[J...]

Are you working it through in slow pace. At what point does she start to lag. Maybe you need to break it down further so 1/4 turn at a time?

Have you done much right about turn work on the spot and if so does she still lag then?

Done heaps of part turns in the kitchen just as part of our learning to 1) truely understand finding heel position and 2) enjoy it given I nearly ruined her with boredom from doing 2 years of classes. So as part of that we've done left turns right turns backwards forwards etc etc and she does them fine.

We have done some on the spot work and yes she is lagging/not turning as tightly - most of it's been in the kitchen on board floors but I did some on grass this arvo and they were still ordinary. Maybe she's got used to turning badly on the boards due to footing and it's carrying to outside?