Toddler Attacked By Dog In Hair Salon

[WoofnHoof]

I was thinking about this scenario earlier, particularly with the various stories and how could they possibly match up and make some sort of sense. Not trying to cast blame or argue the point but just thinking about it broadly.

Picture this:

Dog is eating (away from child)

Child stares at dog (threatening for dog)

Dog stares at child (possibly appealing for child)

Dog averts gaze (attempts to avert threat)

Child continues to stare (very threatening for dog who has attempted to avert threat)

Dog becomes more fearful and is triggered to attack with little/no warning

This is what I thought would be a likely scenario too.

Souff I know what you are saying and I don't think anyone has really said that the dog owner didn't have responsibility for this happening, I think that the poor dog should have been protected from the situation. Personally I feel that a dog shouldn't have free run of the entire premises, it should have been behind a barrier at least. I think I just feel that the dog should have been allowed to live if it were possible for the owner to effectively contain it since with the scant evidence there is I'm not convinced the dog is a vicious psycho it was just in a bad situation it shouldn't have been in.

I do think the owner needs the book thrown at them to emphasise their duty of care to the public, and their sheer lack of common sense. I think the parental supervision issue is an important one even though it may not apply in this specific case I think people are just expressing their frustration at the general lessening of parental supervision responsibilities these days where it feels as though everyone is under some obligation to look out for everyone else's kids all of the time. In my area in the last few years there were several dam drownings of young children, tragedies that could have been avoided with effective supervision, I had one woman tell me that it was ok that her partner had guns behind the front door because the child (who was crawling at that stage) never went there! It's like when people tell their children to be careful with guns and train them well and are left wondering how little Johnny accidently shot his brother. Too many people expect their children to behave like little adults and I think this thread is just the expression of people's frustration at the senseless losses and injuries suffered by kids at the hands of irresponsible adults.

[Danois]

I have just looked at WA/SA/VIC/NSW and QLD legislation (Acts and Regs).

A couple of states have hairdressing specific legislation and there is no mention of animals in that.

Have briefly scanned applicable Health Acts and cannot find mention.

Have located publications from several local councils which state that animals shall not be kept or allowed in hairdressing premises - not sure the legislative basis for it as they do not support the statement.

Suspect that there is something in legislation that allows local authorities to make laws with regards to the cleanliness and hygiene of hairdressing premises and it is under this power that the above statement arises.

[asal]

My daughter was almost bitten on the face while I was talking to the dog's owner. I was holding her hand at the time and she was standing quietly beside me. The dog lunged at her face suddenly and it was only the fact that he was on a lead that saved my daughter from being seriously bitten. Was I not supervising my child? She was attached to my hand, but had she been bitten, no doubt the crazies on here would find someway to make it MY fault or my child's fault.

what people dont realise is many animals dont see children in the same light as an adult. an animal that is friendly and gentle with an adult can be a monster to a child and i dont mean the child finds it scary. Well not until its attacked.

One of the favourite jokes at Leacocks was Mr Leacock would tell some visiting kid to please go fetch the house cow, and send you off with a bucket and feed to fetch her. he sent me one day, yep she fetched all right, galloping straight at me and chasing me back to the house at a full run, goodness knows what if I had fell. he was laughing his head off.

my heifie would come running when i called her, she would stand to be milked completely free in a 25 acre paddock, imagine my astonishment when i introduced her to my baby. she took one snif of the little human, gave a snort that nearly blew her out of my arms, put her head down and was intending grinding her into the ground with her head???

at no time could i risk letting my child walk into her paddock even when she was 5, heifie would snuff snort and go into attack mode. I had bought her as a young heifer and she was so tame and gentle i could put a halter and saddle on her and go for a ride.

one of my mares can be called from anywhere in a 500 acre paddock, she will come whinning with joy. BUT the day i sent my then 9 year old daughter to tip her feed into her trough i still cant believe what happend next. she walked up to the child, grabbed her by the shoulder and shook her, WHY! search me, she had never shown agression in any form to anyone or my child before that day, although child have never been alone with her before.

somehow i dont think some dogs might be much different.

Edited November 30, 2009 by asal

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

I've only just seen this, so I haven't read all the posts, just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

When you are working on someone's hair, you really do need to concentrate, especially when you are cutting. If you have your dog in the salon, there is no possible way that you can have your eyes on it at all times. If it absolutely has to be in the salon, it should be confined. It is incredibly stupid to allow a dog to freely wander around a busy salon, where all manner of people of all ages will be coming in throughout the day.

Parents also need to supervise their children, and as much as it annoys me when people let their kids wander around the salon unsupervised, it is still the responsibility of the salon staff to make sure all chemicals and equipment are stored out of reach of small children, and how many salons have a box of toys sitting off in a corner for kids to keep themselves amused? So it is somewhat understandable that a parent might feel comfortable to just let their kid go off and wander around while they are getting their hair cut. Almost all kids that come with their parents to the salon would not be sitting right next to them the whole time.

I am of the opinion that this incident is entirely the salon owner's fault. You can't expect people not to bring children into the salon, but I think it is reasonable to expect to be able to bring your kids in without them being in danger.

[Shmurps]

I can't stand hair dressing salons. The smell of chemicals and the sound of hair dryers. IMO It is no environment for a dog anyway!

Poor child, family and dog.

[Ashanali]

I'm off to see my dad at his salon this morning. I'm getting my hair done so I'll be leaving the kids at home because I know I won't be able to keep an eye on them while my hair is being done.

[baggins]

A number of local dog owners are very concerned about the welfare of the husky in question who is called Smoochachos (Chachos). Chachos has been locked in the Stonnington Pound since 21 November, 2009. Chachos is a big dog, used to daily exercise (the owner and dog are seen regularly running in Fawkner Parkand surrounding area) and he is used to constant human company.

I'm a local dog owner and know Chachos very well and would describe his temperament as gentle. I have no reason to believe he would attack a child. I own two small dogs (terrier / poodle crosses) that play with Chachos regularly in Fawkner Park, South Yarra Park and Brighton Beach. I also walk past the salon twice a day and I stop to let the dogs play.

It also appears to be a case of trial by media as there are some allegations or misleading quotes that have appeared in the newspaper which are in stark contrast to my experience with Chachos:

Allegation - the dog is known to attack other dogs as they walk past the shop. My youngest dog gets excited whenever we approach the hair dressing shop, anxious to play with Chachos. Is this the behaviour of a dog that is scared of being attacked? Given the difference in the dog sizes, Chachos is very gentle - he will jump over my dog to avoid knocking into him and will lie down and let Ivan jump on top of him to play. I would welcome the opportunity to show the authorities the dogs playing together to demonstrate that Chachos is not aggressive towards other dogs or dogs passing by the shop. I have never witnessed the behaviour described by the media.

Allegation - the dog is fed in the shop. Chachos is not feed in the shop but in the back room that leads to the owner’s home and the door is closed to the general public. My dogs always head to be back room when visiting the shop as they know this is where Chachos’s is fed. My dogs regular share Chachos’s food and bones in the back room and Chachos has never shown any aggression - to the contrary. Again, I would welcome the opportunity to demonstrate Chachos’s behaviour with my dogs under these conditions. If Chachos had a chew stick or toy when the incident allegedly happened, I can't imagine he would snap at anyone.

Allegation - Chachos’s owners are uncaring. Like many of the local dog owners, I have enquired as to how Chachos's owners are coping. Madeline and Ghassan are very distressed and concerned for both the young girl and Chachos. The media made them out to be monsters. As far as being responsible dog owners, Chachos is treated exceptionally well. Chachos is taken on daily long walks and runs in the local parks and he goes everywhere with his owners. The physical condition of Chachos is evident of the care and attention given by his owners.

Although there were a number of people in the shop at the time of the incident (including the parents) it is very strange that no one actually saw Chachos bite the child, or hear him growl or show any form of

aggression towards the child. The child sustained a cut to her lip - does this constitute mauling? Has it been established that the injury was caused by a dog bite or from a fall on the marble floor? Where were the child’s responsible parents when the incident allegedly happened? There are three deep steps from the salon (where the child and parents were) to the top landing area where the dog was lying.

I'm not advocating that it is right for a dog to be in a shop. If it is illegal or found that the owners were negligent, then the authorities should fine the owners. But the parents also have a responsibily to take care of their child and the Department of Human Services should also investigate and take action. It also seems very suspicious that the media were on the scene immediately and anyone who saw pictures of the girl on the TV or in the newspaper could see clearly the child's face and the extent of injury.

The two innocent victims in this situation are the little girl and the dog. A few concerned dog owners are meeting at The Stonnington Council on Monday night at 6.30pm for a silent protest to show support to have the dog released. If I felt the dog was dangerous I would agree that it should be put down but given the circumstances and from my experience with the dog, it is far from dangerous.

If you feel the same way that I do about the situation, then please show your support by writing to the City of Stonnington - [email protected]

[Ashanali]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't watch the news or read the paper anymore so I am unaware of what the media has been saying apart from what is in this thread.

Allegation - the dog is known to attack other dogs as they walk past the shop. My youngest dog gets excited whenever we approach the hair dressing shop, anxious to play with Chachos. Is this the behaviour of a dog that is scared of being attacked? Given the difference in the dog sizes, Chachos is very gentle - he will jump over my dog to avoid knocking into him and will lie down and let Ivan jump on top of him to play. I would welcome the opportunity to show the authorities the dogs playing together to demonstrate that Chachos is not aggressive towards other dogs or dogs passing by the shop. I have never witnessed the behaviour described by the media.

Your experience with Chachos is irrelevant. I have a dog who is the sweetest natured dog you will ever meet. Loves other dogs thinks people are awesome. But after an incident last year with an idiot out the front of our house, he now HATES this one dog that walks past with a passion. At 4pm each day, we have to make sure our dog is locked away as we know that's when the other morons go walkies. Just because you have a good experience with him, doesn't mean that everyone elses experience is the same.

Allegation - the dog is fed in the shop. Chachos is not feed in the shop but in the back room that leads to the owner’s home and the door is closed to the general public. My dogs always head to be back room when visiting the shop as they know this is where Chachos’s is fed. My dogs regular share Chachos’s food and bones in the back room and Chachos has never shown any aggression - to the contrary. Again, I would welcome the opportunity to demonstrate Chachos’s behaviour with my dogs under these conditions. If Chachos had a chew stick or toy when the incident allegedly happened, I can't imagine he would snap at anyone.

Some dogs don't care, some do. My girl Sunni can be locked apart from other dogs and around a corner out of direct view and if there is food down she will guard it for hours until she's ready to eat it. If she is in the same yard as the dogs and she has hidden food somewhere, she will come belting out of nowhere to tackle any dog that goes near her stash. It doesn't matter if food is in a back room or right next to where someone is standing. If food was anywhere around the vicinity, Chachos could still have been wary of someone wanting to take it... dogs don't see children the same way we do. A child could easily have been considered a threat particularly seeing as she was unknown to the dog.

Allegation - Chachos’s owners are uncaring. Like many of the local dog owners, I have enquired as to how Chachos's owners are coping. Madeline and Ghassan are very distressed and concerned for both the young girl and Chachos. The media made them out to be monsters. As far as being responsible dog owners, Chachos is treated exceptionally well. Chachos is taken on daily long walks and runs in the local parks and he goes everywhere with his owners. The physical condition of Chachos is evident of the care and attention given by his owners.

I haven't seen anything about the owners being uncaring. To me I would say that they are probably the opposite if they feel the need to take the dog to their place of work. Dogs can have displays of jealousy... perhaps Chachos is a little spoilt and felt that the little one was a threat to his position. We have no idea what the dog could possibly have been thinking.

Although there were a number of people in the shop at the time of the incident (including the parents) it is very strange that no one actually saw Chachos bite the child, or hear him growl or show any form of

aggression towards the child. The child sustained a cut to her lip - does this constitute mauling? Has it been established that the injury was caused by a dog bite or from a fall on the marble floor? Where were the child’s responsible parents when the incident allegedly happened? There are three deep steps from the salon (where the child and parents were) to the top landing area where the dog was lying.

No it isn't strange to not hear a noise. Many dogs can snap without sound and without warning. A cut to the lip doesn't constitute a mauling but if it was done by the dog it is still a cause for concern. I have no idea of the circumstances surrounding the incident but there are always three sides to a story. The truth is usually somewhere in between the two.

I'm not advocating that it is right for a dog to be in a shop. If it is illegal or found that the owners were negligent, then the authorities should fine the owners. But the parents also have a responsibily to take care of their child and the Department of Human Services should also investigate and take action. It also seems very suspicious that the media were on the scene immediately and anyone who saw pictures of the girl on the TV or in the newspaper could see clearly the child's face and the extent of injury.

Seriously? There are saddistic and twisted people out there torturing, starving and abusing their children and you want to have someone investigate the parents of a child because she has either been bitten by a dog or fallen over somewhere (depending on who you believe). That's a little overboard don't you think?

And no it's not suspicious for the media to be there immediately. They have these things called police scanners and they are often on the scene of accidents and anything that could sound like a good story before the police are. I used to work in a police station, the media are attracted to stories like this like flies.

The two innocent victims in this situation are the little girl and the dog. A few concerned dog owners are meeting at The Stonnington Council on Monday night at 6.30pm for a silent protest to show support to have the dog released. If I felt the dog was dangerous I would agree that it should be put down but given the circumstances and from my experience with the dog, it is far from dangerous.

If you feel the same way that I do about the situation, then please show your support by writing to the City of Stonnington - [email protected]

I agree that the dog and the child are innocent victims in all this, however you have to seperate your personal experience from the incident - unfortunately it just doesn't count.

I personally feel that the dog should be released BUT the owners should have to comply with dangerous dog regulations and keep the dog safely contained at all times. No more salon visits!

Salons - not the place for a dog no matter what.

[Diablo]

Although there were a number of people in the shop at the time of the incident (including the parents) it is very strange that no one actually saw Chachos bite the child, or hear him growl or show any form of

aggression towards the child. The child sustained a cut to her lip - does this constitute mauling? Has it been established that the injury was caused by a dog bite or from a fall on the marble floor? Where were the child’s responsible parents when the incident allegedly happened? There are three deep steps from the salon (where the child and parents were) to the top landing area where the dog was lying.

Hmmmm, that puts an interesting spin on things ...........no one actually saw or heard a reaction from the dog and an assumption has been made???.

A dog is an animal and can't be 100% predictable in it's behaviour at all times which is true, but any good responsible owner spending all day and every day with their dog in a hair dressing salon being a constant meeting place for strangers of all different shapes, sizes and ages, the dog owner would have a fairly good idea how the dog reacts and behaves. No one in their right mind would keep a dog in a salon that had a history of aggression or nastiness and if the dog has been there for a few years, it would have reacted previously...........someone would know if it has aggressed before and has a story to tell about the dog which hasn't been forthcoming.........only support for the dog with claims of docility.

In the circumstances, the dog should be released and an order if it's not already in place that dogs in a work place of public access must be islolated in my opinion. Ultimately, they need conclusive evidence that the childs injuries was in fact inflicted by the dog and not as suggested from contact with a marble floor/steps etc.

As for impounding the dog and locking it away............that's just plain cruelty and could ruin a dog suddenly forced to live in that environment. Either the dog is aggressive or it's not which can be determined by the ranger in 30secs

Edited December 5, 2009 by Diablo

[Souff]

Although there were a number of people in the shop at the time of the incident (including the parents) it is very strange that no one actually saw Chachos bite the child, or hear him growl or show any form of

aggression towards the child. The child sustained a cut to her lip - does this constitute mauling?

Baggins,

Were you actually there in the salon?

There was an account posted here by a family member and the location of the dog is different to what you give.

Also, what is your description of "mauling" ? I am interested to know.

Souff

[Akayla]

I have a dog that on occassion has taken a dislike to other dogs. She is generally fine with everyone. Just because one dog can get along with this dog is no garantee of behaviour.

A dog can and in my experience oftne do attack silently. The noise comes after they hit their target. A dog t hat is growling is giving warning that it doesnt really want to attack but will if pushed. A dog that leaps silently is intent of causing harm.

I agree that both are free from blame - neither really has the ability to be held responsible. Id be happy with a DD put on this animal.

I believe that they can appeal if they think the child was not injured by the dog and the rangers would have to provide some proof that it was infact the dog.

According to the friend of the family the child was right next to the mother. That would mean that the dog had approached.

The dog shouldnt have been there though when the owner cant offer control of that animal. Sad for them but they are liable if this dog caused harm to this child.

[Erny]

Salons - not the place for a dog no matter what.

Naahh ..... I disagree. But if I were an owner, I'd be making sure my dog was somewhere so I could protect him/her from people.

[Ashanali]

Salons - not the place for a dog no matter what.

Naahh ..... I disagree. But if I were an owner, I'd be making sure my dog was somewhere so I could protect him/her from people.

My mum would occassionally take her dogs to the salon. She either had them crated or tethered outside but within her field of view. I didn't like it when they were tethered as too many people would walk up to them for pats or take their dogs over to them to say hello (she was in the same complex as a vet - who knows what they could have caught!), I didn't mind it when they were crated though - always out of the way of clients etc.

Still, it would have been easier for everyone if the dogs weren't there at all. I think that's just my bias though.

[cavNrott]

In the Melbourne HS this morning it was stated that the child fell onto the dog.

[Akayla]

Thats a sad situation then but I still think the dog should have a DD against them especially if the dog had wondered over to the child.

[huski]

Thats a sad situation then but I still think the dog should have a DD against them especially if the dog had wondered over to the child.

If the kid fell onto the dog, he could have reacted out of pain/surprise. Why should he have a DD order on him if that was the situation?

Edited December 6, 2009 by huski

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

I'm off to see my dad at his salon this morning. I'm getting my hair done so I'll be leaving the kids at home because I know I won't be able to keep an eye on them while my hair is being done.

;)

I'm sure its probably ideal not to bring kids to the salon while you're getting your hair done, but sometimes people just can't get around it. Where I worked, one of our regulars was a single mother, with no family or anyone to watch her 4 year old daughter while she gets her hair done. She's the sweetest kid, she sits in the toy corner and draws pictures to give to all the staff I don't think it is unreasonable for parents to bring their kids to the salon if they are well behaved, and they should be able to do so without having their kid attacked by a dog

[Akayla]

There are several reasons but given the size of a two year old, the fact the dog reacted aggressively, the fact that the dog would be out in public again where who knows what could happen.

If it were my dog and it did bite a child (and caused injury) Id want it muzzled ect anyway.

[Ashanali]

I'm off to see my dad at his salon this morning. I'm getting my hair done so I'll be leaving the kids at home because I know I won't be able to keep an eye on them while my hair is being done.

;)

I'm sure its probably ideal not to bring kids to the salon while you're getting your hair done, but sometimes people just can't get around it. Where I worked, one of our regulars was a single mother, with no family or anyone to watch her 4 year old daughter while she gets her hair done. She's the sweetest kid, she sits in the toy corner and draws pictures to give to all the staff I don't think it is unreasonable for parents to bring their kids to the salon if they are well behaved, and they should be able to do so without having their kid attacked by a dog

Have you read the whole thread? I was talking about children around 20 months old - the same age as the girl involved in the incident. Not four year olds who are a completely different kettle of fish.

[huski]

There are several reasons but given the size of a two year old, the fact the dog reacted aggressively, the fact that the dog would be out in public again where who knows what could happen.

If it were my dog and it did bite a child (and caused injury) Id want it muzzled ect anyway.

So if your daughter tripped and fell over one of your dogs, hurting them, and they yelped, nipping her unintentionally out of pain you would happily have them live their lives as dangerous dogs? In a run outside, only allowed to be handled by people 18 years and older, muzzled every time they leave the pen etc?

A dog reacting out of pain is not the same as a dog reacting out of aggression.

What about children who kick or hit dogs or pull their tail/ears etc and the dog nips them because they are in pain? Should those dogs have to be muzzled the rest of their lives and have a DD order put on them in that instance, too?

Edited December 7, 2009 by huski