Toddler Attacked By Dog In Hair Salon

[Ashanali]

You can't avoid having children in a hair salon. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact is people can and do bring their children with them to the salon. So it is the responsibility of the hairdressers to make sure they are not leaving dangerous things withing reach of small children.

I've never been to a salon where dangerous chemicals were not stored at height, or in locked cupboards or a seperate room with a closed door, and hairdressers keep their scissors, hot irons, and other dangerous equipment stored away in trolleys (or sitting on top of the trolley while in use).

Its simple really. If a child manages to get their hands on anything dangerous and gets hurt, then obviously someone has been irresponsible by leaving it where the child could get to it.

I really don't think so.

Children also regularly taken to shopping centres, carparks, supermarkets, parks etc etc etc it is NOT up to the supermarket owners, car park users, shopping centre employees nor park employees to be responsible for everyones children. It is up to the PARENTS.

That is half the reason we have so many uncontrolable, ratbag, no mannered children today,,because the parents don't take any responsibily for them.

What ever happened to the parent being responsible for their own children?? Why isn't the parent watching the child??

So business owners now not only have to run a business, deal with customers and accounts but offer FREE babysitting for customers as well???

So that would mean IF the child was about to touch something dangerous, the business owner, (who by your thinking is responsible for the child) has FULL right to walk up and SMACK the child??

Most businesses have things kept up or away and it ISN'T because they are volunteering to take responsibilty for your children it is due to OH&S laws.

+1

Parents need to take responsibility for looking after their own children and not expect staff of businesses they use to do it on their behalf. If I ran a hairdressing salon and a customer let their child run rampant I'd be telling them to get their child under control or ask them to not return unless they can find a babysitter. I know I would lose customers this way but it is not my job to look after someone else's kids.

ETA: Other patrons shouldn't have to put up with it either.

I had to bold that bit as it really is important in a salon. It IS the staffs' responsibility to store everything correctly and take due care BUT it IS NOT the staffs' responsibility to look after the children of clients.

[Jed]

I made that clear to begin with Gareth..........dog's deserve their personal space plus...........they are someone elses belonging. Do you see a nice car parked on the side of the road and jump in to see how it feels behind the wheel???........of course not and the same applies with someone else's dog which is not for the general public's pleasure.

Nothing is clear in your posts. You don't go to jail for fondling strange dogs, so still waiting for an answer to my question

how you can equate fondling a strange dog to interfering with/fondling a strange person

Now add to that, stealing or using other people's property doesn't equate either

I will leave you to your strange ponderings before my brain melts.

Try this one Gareth..........if it doesn't belong to you...........leave it alone, keep your hands off it

Try this one, Diablo.

Do you have literacy problems? Do you have comprehension problems? Do you have minor aggression problems?

If not, perhaps you would like to reread what you have written, or rethink your understanding of Gareth's post, and also reconsider your response? Was it appropriate? Was it valid?

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

yes because hairdressers are all about safety with their scissors, spiky objects, hot presses, crimpers, bleach etc.. Sorry but a child shouldnt be allowed to roam around a hairdressers period because it isnt a safe area.. What if the kid decided that cup of bleach next to an old lady getting her hair done might be yoghurt..

You can't avoid having children in a hair salon. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact is people can and do bring their children with them to the salon. So it is the responsibility of the hairdressers to make sure they are not leaving dangerous things withing reach of small children.

I've never been to a salon where dangerous chemicals were not stored at height, or in locked cupboards or a seperate room with a closed door, and hairdressers keep their scissors, hot irons, and other dangerous equipment stored away in trolleys (or sitting on top of the trolley while in use).

Its simple really. If a child manages to get their hands on anything dangerous and gets hurt, then obviously someone has been irresponsible by leaving it where the child could get to it.

You don't have children... that is clearly obvious.

No, but I have worked in a hair salon and one of the first things I was taught, was how to correctly store chemicals and equipment and not to leave things lying around. I never suggested that business owners should be responsible for the children themselves, just that they need to be responsible for their own tools and equipment. Surely its just common sense not to leave a bowl of bleach anywhere other than a high surface when there are children around?

Of course its easy to say that parents just shouldn't bring their kids with them but the fact is plenty of people do and I doubt that most salon owners would turn away a client because they had children with them.

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

You can't avoid having children in a hair salon. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact is people can and do bring their children with them to the salon. So it is the responsibility of the hairdressers to make sure they are not leaving dangerous things withing reach of small children.

I've never been to a salon where dangerous chemicals were not stored at height, or in locked cupboards or a seperate room with a closed door, and hairdressers keep their scissors, hot irons, and other dangerous equipment stored away in trolleys (or sitting on top of the trolley while in use).

Its simple really. If a child manages to get their hands on anything dangerous and gets hurt, then obviously someone has been irresponsible by leaving it where the child could get to it.

So that would mean IF the child was about to touch something dangerous, the business owner, (who by your thinking is responsible for the child) has FULL right to walk up and SMACK the child??

Most businesses have things kept up or away and it ISN'T because they are volunteering to take responsibilty for your children it is due to OH&S laws.

Exactly, they keep things where they should be safety reasons, so no one gets hurt. I never once said that business owners should be babysitting, and IF a child was about to touch something dangerous, of course they business owner shouldn't smack them, but the fact still remains that the child should not have had access to whatever that dangerous thing was in the first place.

[Diablo]

I made that clear to begin with Gareth..........dog's deserve their personal space plus...........they are someone elses belonging. Do you see a nice car parked on the side of the road and jump in to see how it feels behind the wheel???........of course not and the same applies with someone else's dog which is not for the general public's pleasure.

Nothing is clear in your posts. You don't go to jail for fondling strange dogs, so still waiting for an answer to my question

how you can equate fondling a strange dog to interfering with/fondling a strange person

Now add to that, stealing or using other people's property doesn't equate either

I will leave you to your strange ponderings before my brain melts.

Try this one Gareth..........if it doesn't belong to you...........leave it alone, keep your hands off it

Try this one, Diablo.

Do you have literacy problems? Do you have comprehension problems? Do you have minor aggression problems?

If not, perhaps you would like to reread what you have written, or rethink your understanding of Gareth's post, and also reconsider your response? Was it appropriate? Was it valid?

Dog's deserve the right to their own personal space and too many times, people just can't resist the temptation not to leave other people's dogs alone. Public place or not, you can't interfere with another person...........you can't walk into a hair salon and fondle a hairdresser that takes your fancy.........why should anyone believe they have the rights to fondle someone elses dog then scream if the dog reacts???. I was taught from a very early age that we had our own dog to pat and to leave other peoples dogs alone.

That's what I wrote Jed............you don't agree with that???

[Diablo]

You can't avoid having children in a hair salon. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact is people can and do bring their children with them to the salon. So it is the responsibility of the hairdressers to make sure they are not leaving dangerous things withing reach of small children.

I've never been to a salon where dangerous chemicals were not stored at height, or in locked cupboards or a seperate room with a closed door, and hairdressers keep their scissors, hot irons, and other dangerous equipment stored away in trolleys (or sitting on top of the trolley while in use).

Its simple really. If a child manages to get their hands on anything dangerous and gets hurt, then obviously someone has been irresponsible by leaving it where the child could get to it.

So that would mean IF the child was about to touch something dangerous, the business owner, (who by your thinking is responsible for the child) has FULL right to walk up and SMACK the child??

Most businesses have things kept up or away and it ISN'T because they are volunteering to take responsibilty for your children it is due to OH&S laws.

Exactly, they keep things where they should be safety reasons, so no one gets hurt. I never once said that business owners should be babysitting, and IF a child was about to touch something dangerous, of course they business owner shouldn't smack them, but the fact still remains that the child should not have had access to whatever that dangerous thing was in the first place.

What's wrong with the child being made to sit in a chair and behave............didn't do me any harm

[slk]

Just love how this thread has become about the child being in the wrong place ??????? It's a human establishment. Mum's get haircuts and not everyone has babysitters on tap (me for one!). Jeez, perhaps the child was there for a haircut - perhaps we should just legislate that children are not allowed out in public because they are a menace and touch stuff.

[Nannas]

Just love how this thread has become about the child being in the wrong place ??????? It's a human establishment. Mum's get haircuts and not everyone has babysitters on tap (me for one!). Jeez, perhaps the child was there for a haircut - perhaps we should just legislate that children are not allowed out in public because they are a menace and touch stuff.

I have never stated the child was in thew wrong place.

All I have said is it is NOT up to the hairdresser (business owner) to be responsible for the children. It is up to the parents.

I have 5 children and from before they could walk they knew how to sit and wait, not to touch and how to behave when told.

I could take them anywhere and everywhere without many problems. Now I have grandchildren, and while with me, they also wait, don't touch and behave when told. (with their mum it is a different story though)

[slk]

Of course it not up to the hairdresser. But doesn't anyone think that perhaps the mum wasn't expecting a dog ??? The kid wasn't worded up - don't touch the dog because she wasn't expecting one to be there ????

I choose not to take my 2 year old to the vet because of that reason. It's too tempting for him to pat all the animals. I know there will be animals there and if I know I'm not giving him 100% of my watchful eye because I'm distracted with my animal - then I leave him home. Same for the dog groomers - not necessarily the right environment for children unattended. But the hairdressers?

Perhaps the Mum was distracted with, I don't know, paying or talking to the staff and just wasn't expecting a dog in that environment.

[Ashanali]

yes because hairdressers are all about safety with their scissors, spiky objects, hot presses, crimpers, bleach etc.. Sorry but a child shouldnt be allowed to roam around a hairdressers period because it isnt a safe area.. What if the kid decided that cup of bleach next to an old lady getting her hair done might be yoghurt..

You can't avoid having children in a hair salon. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact is people can and do bring their children with them to the salon. So it is the responsibility of the hairdressers to make sure they are not leaving dangerous things withing reach of small children.

I've never been to a salon where dangerous chemicals were not stored at height, or in locked cupboards or a seperate room with a closed door, and hairdressers keep their scissors, hot irons, and other dangerous equipment stored away in trolleys (or sitting on top of the trolley while in use).

Its simple really. If a child manages to get their hands on anything dangerous and gets hurt, then obviously someone has been irresponsible by leaving it where the child could get to it.

You don't have children... that is clearly obvious.

No, but I have worked in a hair salon and one of the first things I was taught, was how to correctly store chemicals and equipment and not to leave things lying around. I never suggested that business owners should be responsible for the children themselves, just that they need to be responsible for their own tools and equipment. Surely its just common sense not to leave a bowl of bleach anywhere other than a high surface when there are children around?

Of course its easy to say that parents just shouldn't bring their kids with them but the fact is plenty of people do and I doubt that most salon owners would turn away a client because they had children with them.

Oh wow, really?

I have grown up in hair salons my entire life. I know all about proper storage of chemical and tools - you're preaching to the choir.

I also know that most hairdressers are very aware of proper storage.

I also know that children around the age of the child in the OP (ie 20 months), DON'T have great communication skills but they are FAST and they can reach and touch things that you would never expect them to.

What's wrong with the child being made to sit in a chair and behave............didn't do me any harm

Every child is different but at around 20 months old, communication is only just starting to come out - most 20 month olds don't understand, "Sit down, don't touch". I know my two don't.

Just love how this thread has become about the child being in the wrong place ??????? It's a human establishment. Mum's get haircuts and not everyone has babysitters on tap (me for one!). Jeez, perhaps the child was there for a haircut - perhaps we should just legislate that children are not allowed out in public because they are a menace and touch stuff.

Children need to be able to go in public, people aren't saying that they shouldn't go out - that's just stupid. However unless the parent can restrain the child approriately (either by having someone go with them or by strapping them into a pram if they are at the difficult age where they are all legs, hands and not much communication) then in the case of hairdressing, they could start looking into alternatives such as maybe finding a mobile hairdresser to go to their home.

not necessarily the right environment for children unattended. But the hairdressers?

A hairdressing salon is not a place to leave a small child unattended either... but I do agree, the dog is probably the last thing most people expect in a salon unless they are regular clients there.

I have 5 children and from before they could walk they knew how to sit and wait, not to touch and how to behave when told.

From the school of, "You will be seen but not heard". One of my mother's favourite quotes.

I have four children and only one of them was a quiet child and happy to sit with me and not run off everywhere. I think maybe you were lucky or I'm REALLY unlucky

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

Ashanali, I'm not disagreeing with you, obviously it is ideal that parents don't bring their children to the salon if they won't be able to watch them. But the reality is that some parents do bring their children with them, and I'm sure most hairdressers wouldn't turn away a client who had their child with them. So it is important to minimise safety risks and IMO that means not having an unsupervised dog in the salon.

[gareth]

Try this one, Diablo.

Do you have literacy problems? Do you have comprehension problems? Do you have minor aggression problems?

Thanks for trying Jed I had to give up due to sheer frustration. Could be a comprehension issue, but more likely plain old avoidance due to being unable to admit to being wrong.

[Diablo]

Try this one, Diablo.

Do you have literacy problems? Do you have comprehension problems? Do you have minor aggression problems?

Thanks for trying Jed I had to give up due to sheer frustration. Could be a comprehension issue, but more likely plain old avoidance due to being unable to admit to being wrong.

Still trying to be cleaver Gareth

Obviously you are on a path to learn the hard way fondling other peoples dogs without permission...........so when you get bitten........don't whinge about it

[Ashanali]

Still trying to be cleaver Gareth

[gareth]

Still trying to be cleaver Gareth

Ahh thank you muchly Ashanali. Tis indeed a lovely instrument, but I fear it would still not help me to get people to understand simple questions

[gareth]

Obviously you are on a path to learn the hard way fondling other peoples dogs without permission...........so when you get bitten........don't whinge about it ;)

Just an aside - where did I say I fondle strange dogs without permission? You are now not only avoiding my simple question, you are now putting words in my mouth

[casowner]

Thats a sad situation then but I still think the dog should have a DD against them especially if the dog had wondered over to the child.

If the kid fell onto the dog, he could have reacted out of pain/surprise. Why should he have a DD order on him if that was the situation?

Under SA legislation, it would be clear cut case of provocation. It makes no difference if the child fell onto the dog or intentionally pulled it's tail, the dog was mistreated and reacted. The dog has the right to sit in peace without being hurt or startled by misadventure. Because the victim was a defenceless child, doesn't make the dog anymore at fault in the circumstances.

Hi Diablo.

I was wondering if you have that link as I am very interested in this "legislation"

Cheers

[loveseverydog]

You can't avoid having children in a hair salon. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact is people can and do bring their children with them to the salon. So it is the responsibility of the hairdressers to make sure they are not leaving dangerous things withing reach of small children.

I've never been to a salon where dangerous chemicals were not stored at height, or in locked cupboards or a seperate room with a closed door, and hairdressers keep their scissors, hot irons, and other dangerous equipment stored away in trolleys (or sitting on top of the trolley while in use).

Its simple really. If a child manages to get their hands on anything dangerous and gets hurt, then obviously someone has been irresponsible by leaving it where the child could get to it.

I really don't think so.

Children also regularly taken to shopping centres, carparks, supermarkets, parks etc etc etc it is NOT up to the supermarket owners, car park users, shopping centre employees nor park employees to be responsible for everyones children. It is up to the PARENTS.

That is half the reason we have so many uncontrolable, ratbag, no mannered children today,,because the parents don't take any responsibily for them.

What ever happened to the parent being responsible for their own children?? Why isn't the parent watching the child??

So business owners now not only have to run a business, deal with customers and accounts but offer FREE babysitting for customers as well???

So that would mean IF the child was about to touch something dangerous, the business owner, (who by your thinking is responsible for the child) has FULL right to walk up and SMACK the child??

Most businesses have things kept up or away and it ISN'T because they are volunteering to take responsibilty for your children it is due to OH&S laws.

I agree with you here. The dog in the salon (once again I repeat) was NOT in the vicinity of the SALON area itself. It was sitting in the back section of the premises which you would jhave to go up few steps to get to. this area is not used to service clients for hair at all. So why would the parent, in this case, wander to the steps away from the salon, for her toddler to play when the salon part is big enoug and flat to be in? Mother was not thinking right.

[loveseverydog]

You can't avoid having children in a hair salon. Whether you agree with it or not, the fact is people can and do bring their children with them to the salon. So it is the responsibility of the hairdressers to make sure they are not leaving dangerous things withing reach of small children.

I've never been to a salon where dangerous chemicals were not stored at height, or in locked cupboards or a seperate room with a closed door, and hairdressers keep their scissors, hot irons, and other dangerous equipment stored away in trolleys (or sitting on top of the trolley while in use).

Its simple really. If a child manages to get their hands on anything dangerous and gets hurt, then obviously someone has been irresponsible by leaving it where the child could get to it.

I really don't think so.

Children also regularly taken to shopping centres, carparks, supermarkets, parks etc etc etc it is NOT up to the supermarket owners, car park users, shopping centre employees nor park employees to be responsible for everyones children. It is up to the PARENTS.

That is half the reason we have so many uncontrolable, ratbag, no mannered children today,,because the parents don't take any responsibily for them.

What ever happened to the parent being responsible for their own children?? Why isn't the parent watching the child??

So business owners now not only have to run a business, deal with customers and accounts but offer FREE babysitting for customers as well???

So that would mean IF the child was about to touch something dangerous, the business owner, (who by your thinking is responsible for the child) has FULL right to walk up and SMACK the child??

Most businesses have things kept up or away and it ISN'T because they are volunteering to take responsibilty for your children it is due to OH&S laws.

+1

Parents need to take responsibility for looking after their own children and not expect staff of businesses they use to do it on their behalf. If I ran a hairdressing salon and a customer let their child run rampant I'd be telling them to get their child under control or ask them to not return unless they can find a babysitter. I know I would lose customers this way but it is not my job to look after someone else's kids.

ETA: Other patrons shouldn't have to put up with it either.

Agree! Just because a business is "Public Access" doesn't mean that it's open to be a playground. And the dog in this matter (salon) was away from the salon minding his own business.

Provoked? No sign of actual bite.

Fell? Most likely!!!!!!

[loveseverydog]

As a mother of a toddler, I am appalled at the "support" this dog is given, the blame placed on parents and toddler by some and the downplaying of the incident.

This dog is reported to have bitten a child, which required medical treatment. I don't care if the sirens were on or not, it doesn't change the fact the dog bit.

I take my toddler (nearly 3) the hairdressers with me all the time. It's safe. Because he's given clear boundaries and obviously some of us can control our children more than others can control their dogs. And in my opinion - hairdressers are for HUMANS. Dog groomers are for DOGS. I don't take my child to the hairdressers to teach them how to socialise with dogs.

I get so peeved with dog owners who think that we should all love their dogs as much as them, their dogs are taken to places where people (and children) are. My daughter was once nipped by a dog in a coffee shop. She wasn't even looking at it - she was sitting drinking her drink and it came under her chair from behind and nipped the back of her leg. Since when do dogs go to coffee shops. And hairdressers.

Seriously, love that we all love our dogs, but keep them in appropriate places.

Dogs today have almost become accessories. When I was a kid, the dog was what was found in the backyard, or in the park. Not the sodding shops !

I don't think what happened to your child in the coffee shop Slk, is what happened in the hair salon where the dog approached the child to bite her???. A dog biting an innocent child doesn't automatically deem the dog's at fault. It's up to the parents to teach a child how to behave around other peoples dogs like I was taught to leave them alone.

The dog did not approach the child. Three witnesses claims that the dog was in its' same poition when they saw the child crying - minding its own business.