Toddler Attacked By Dog In Hair Salon

[cavNrott]

If I stood on my dog's tail or fell on them, they wouldn't maul me. I believe it IS a judge of character how a dog reacts when startled/hurt.

Very few dogs would react to their owners by 'mauling' them if their dog was startled or accidently had a tail or foot stepped on. I believe the child was bitten once. It was hardly a mauling though I would have expected the tabloid press to describe it as such. Strangely they didn't on this occasion.

This wasn't the dog's owner but a child unknown to the dog who evidently, if what was stated in the paper is to be believed, fell on top of the dog. If, as was stated on here, the dog was eating a pigs ear it's unlikely the dog came up to the child. Dogs focus on eating their pigs ears. It's more likely the child went to the dog.

In the Sunday HS the salon owner said children should not be playing around in hairdressing salons. Who knows whether she was playing around or whether, as has been stated, she was standing next to her mother.

I was in a salon last week when a mother came in with two young children. The little boy was well behaved and sat quietly. The little girl ran around, squealing, fiddling with things on the trolleys and the junior hairdresser had her time cut out watching the child while the mother paid no attention.

I have no opinion on whether or not the dog should be in the salon but it certainly should have been kept contained from children who are playing around in the salon. I keep my dogs away from running, squealing children no matter where we are when we come across them.

[Souff]

This is true Souff. But the dog was in a public place, the dog was not one of those dogs and last but not least the dog wasnt under control.

I can understand people taking their pets to work but I think when we walk out that front door with a four legged friends we have to take care. Im sure these people love their dog and if the child fell on the dog I hope it isnt destroyed but the dog has reacted. If you can say my dog has bitten a child (who was very small and only fell onto the dog) do you not think its a good idea to take precautions and muzzle it when you are out in an enviroment where unpredictable things can happen? Ill say it again is it worth the risk to your dogs life?

It is most definitely not worth the risk to the dog. And it is not worth the risk to children either. I love my dogs but there are areas of my life that will always remain dog free and this is because I know that things can go pearshaped very quickly when you are busy with other things.

None of us can predict every situation and we have a duty to protect our dogs and little children from themselves.

Souff

[Zac's Mate]

It's not the fault of the little girl or the dog. Neither should have been put in that situation, sadly it's something that could have been avoided. Alot of responses on here are highlighting how irresponsible the owners actions are for letting it happen. I wonder if the dog was actually a kind of bull terrier, that the response would still be focusing on the owners deeds and not the breed....People should educate themselves on animal behavior regardless of the breed

[huski]

If I stood on my dog's tail or fell on them, they wouldn't maul me. I believe it IS a judge of character how a dog reacts when startled/hurt.

Oh please. A dog reacting in pain is reacting purely out of instinct. They are not capable of rationalising their pain or thinking about their actions. How can pure instinct be a judge of character? My dogs have grabbed at me when I've accidentally hurt them when they've been injured (not to bite me specifically but because I was in the way when they reacted) - are you saying they have poor character? I'd hate to be your dogs if some child (or adult for that matter) hurt them and they reacted out of pain

What if the dog was already sore/injured? i.e. had arthritis or another health problem - is it still a test of character then??

ETA: I agree cavnrott - the dog did not maul the child.

Edited December 10, 2009 by huski

[Kirty]

I don't believe that. If a lower ranking wild dog reacted to being hurt by a pack leader by biting the pack leader, that dog would be dealt with swiftly.

[Akayla]

Nor would a wold seriously hurt its on pup for jumping on it. Dogs can and do recognise a person that is different - sick, injured and young. They may not think the same as us but they arent dumb either.

A dog doesnt just "react" without being in serious pain. If the dog was that unwell why was it in the public place?

Dog can also use a soft bite especially when given a fright.

[Ashanali]

If I stood on my dog's tail or fell on them, they wouldn't maul me. I believe it IS a judge of character how a dog reacts when startled/hurt.

Did you read my post where I said my son was bitten on the face when he fell onto a sleeping dog?

The dog ended up being one of the most incredibly patient and loving dogs I've ever owned. Loved loved LOVED the kids and would never intentionally hurt them. The incident was the only time he ever lashed out at one of the kids.

You have no idea what your dog would do until it happened.

[huski]

I don't believe that. If a lower ranking wild dog reacted to being hurt by a pack leader by biting the pack leader, that dog would be dealt with swiftly.

So you think you can cause your dogs as much pain as you like, as the "pack leader" your dog shouldn't react? I've seen my dogs play fighting and Micha has accidentally stood on Daisy's ear, she has yelped and nipped him out of pain; it is pure instinct it's got nothing to do with pack order.

Micha was at the chiropractor a little while ago, he was in pretty bad pain as he had a back injury and when we moved to put him on his side he yelped and grabbed my arm (it was in the way) - not hard but he's NEVER put his teeth on me in seven years. It was pure instinct, a basic reaction and NOTHING to do with pack order.

Nor would a wold seriously hurt its on pup for jumping on it. Dogs can and do recognise a person that is different - sick, injured and young. They may not think the same as us but they arent dumb either.

A dog doesnt just "react" without being in serious pain. If the dog was that unwell why was it in the public place?

Dog can also use a soft bite especially when given a fright.

No, a dog wouldn't hurt a pup for simply jumping on it - a dog would bite out of pain.

Sometimes dogs have injuries that are not always clear to us, two vets told me Micha had mild arthritis before we finally found out it was actually a back injury. Are you saying that you don't think dogs ever react out of pain? That a reaction to being hurt isn't pure instinct? Can you completely, 100% control your immediate reaction when you hurt yourself?

Edited December 10, 2009 by huski

[corrie]

These threads always make me think of a poor cattle dog that was put down at our local pound... I've told it before but....

Said lovely boy was surrendered by his owners because he had bitten a child in the home. Completely out of character for him. He was PTS but as they turned him to move him the pound manger found a pencil embedded in his ear.....

I remember when you posted that last time and I searched for it to quote in here but couldn't find it. It really stuck with me. So so sad.

[huski]

If I stood on my dog's tail or fell on them, they wouldn't maul me. I believe it IS a judge of character how a dog reacts when startled/hurt.

Did you read my post where I said my son was bitten on the face when he fell onto a sleeping dog?

The dog ended up being one of the most incredibly patient and loving dogs I've ever owned. Loved loved LOVED the kids and would never intentionally hurt them. The incident was the only time he ever lashed out at one of the kids.

You have no idea what your dog would do until it happened.

Exactly - and yet many dogs are PTS by people like Kirty who believe it's entirely the dogs fault, and an example of the dog's poor temperament, if they react like that

[Kirty]

huski, grow up. Maybe one day when you have kids you'll understand. I would PTS a dog if it severely bit a child. Wouldn't think twice about it. If it nipped the child for being rough, then I wouldn't. But my kids are FAR more important than my pets and I'll do whatever I have to to protect them.

I don't think its entirely the dogs fault but I believe the way they respond to things shows their character. Eg. my in-laws dog used to turn and attack you if you accidentally stood on its foot. My own dogs, if you did that, would yelp or run. Not bite. And no I don't purposely go around hurting my dogs, but I've had them for 8 years so I know them pretty well.

[huski]

huski, grow up. Maybe one day when you have kids you'll understand. I would PTS a dog if it severely bit a child. Wouldn't think twice about it. If it nipped the child for being rough, then I wouldn't. But my kids are FAR more important than my pets and I'll do whatever I have to to protect them.

Then I pity your dogs who would be PTS because a child seriously hurt them. Would you do the same if an adult hurt them too? Whose going to protect your dogs from people hurting them, if you think it's up to the dog to hold back it's instinctive reaction? Using Winterpaws example - do you think it's ok for a child to stick a pencil in a dog's ear and ok to then have that dog PTS for reacting out of pain?

What about kids who are deliberately cruel to animals - someone posted an example once of kids taping a dog's mouth closed with duct tape. Or kids who kick, hit and throw things at dogs because they think it's funny. Guess it would just be an example of the dog's poor character for biting them or trying to protect itself?

I don't think its entirely the dogs fault but I believe the way they respond to things shows their character. Eg. my in-laws dog used to turn and attack you if you accidentally stood on its foot. My own dogs, if you did that, would yelp or run. Not bite. And no I don't purposely go around hurting my dogs, but I've had them for 8 years so I know them pretty well.

So you're saying my dogs, Ashanali's dogs, any dog who has reacted out of pain when someone's hurt them have poor character?

Perhaps I just need to grow up or have kids to really understand But if my dogs snap at me the last thing I would do is PTS - it is so out of character for them that it would be a sign to me that something's up and they are injured/in pain etc. Which was exactly the case when Mish grabbed my arm. If I'd follow your line of thinking I would have PTS a dog who was reacting purely because he was in pain. I sincerely hope your dogs never lash out because they are in pain, or injured, or frightened

Edited December 11, 2009 by huski

[Kirty]

Oh dear. Not even worth replying.

[huski]

At least I have enough value and respect for my dogs to help them, not have them PTS, when they try to tell me that they're injured or in pain.

Nothing irritates me more than parents who think their child should be able to do what they like to a dog without the dog reacting.

Edited December 11, 2009 by huski

[Kirty]

Oh for christ's sake!! WHERE did I say I let my kids do anything to my dogs? Point that out to me please huski. My kids are always supervised with the dogs and taught how to handle dogs correctly. My 2yo is a pain because she is rough with them, so she gets a smack on the bum if she is rough. I know my dogs well enough to know then they are sick/in pain BEFORE they resort to biting.

Nothing irritates ME more than people who think dogs have higher value than children.

[Ashanali]

Oh for christ's sake!! WHERE did I say I let my kids do anything to my dogs? Point that out to me please huski. My kids are always supervised with the dogs and taught how to handle dogs correctly. My 2yo is a pain because she is rough with them, so she gets a smack on the bum if she is rough. I know my dogs well enough to know then they are sick/in pain BEFORE they resort to biting.

Nothing irritates ME more than people who think dogs have higher value than children.

Yes, she resorts to smacking her kids before the dogs do.

[huski]

Oh for christ's sake!! WHERE did I say I let my kids do anything to my dogs? Point that out to me please huski. My kids are always supervised with the dogs and taught how to handle dogs correctly. My 2yo is a pain because she is rough with them, so she gets a smack on the bum if she is rough. I know my dogs well enough to know then they are sick/in pain BEFORE they resort to biting.

Nothing irritates ME more than people who think dogs have higher value than children.

I wasn't saying that you let them do anything they like to them - just that no matter what your kids did to them, if the dog reacted out of pain or self defense you'd have it PTS.

I wouldn't value my dogs lives over a child, but I wouldn't have my dogs PTS because a child (or adult) hurt them. Why even have dogs if you are going to treat them with such little regard?? To state it's a testament of the dog's character or somehow unnatural for a dog to respond when hurt or threatened is not just unfair but untrue.

We can't always know instantly when our dogs are injured, or tender/ sore or the extent of the injuries/pain. Sometimes we do know but can't get around having to handle them (i.e. when they are being treated/examined/being lifted onto the table or into the car).

Edited December 11, 2009 by huski

[mr.mister]

One day, a friend of mine was patting my BC, when he jumped up to lick her face. It happened very quickly, and without sound, but he misjudged his lick, so to speak, and accidentally nose-butted my friend in the lip. It split her lip and drew blood. It was in no way an aggressive move on the part of the dog, but a misjudgement. Did that make him a dangerous dog that needs to be PTS? Of course not. It was an accident. It could have easily happened with a child in the same situation, it was lucky though that we were looking, or perhaps we would have jumped to conclusion and thought he'd nipped her. Of course, my friend was an adult and was able to state that the dog had in fact butted her with his nose rather than nipped her.

Also, I was brushing my BC one morning when I must have gone over a very tender spot on his thigh - not entirely sure why it had been so sensitive, further inspection showed no bruising, abrasions, swelling or tearing, and he wasn't lame. Just must have been a sensitive spot. Anyway, when I brushed over his thigh, he let out an almighty 'roar' of pain and lunged his head at where he was hurting - stopping just short of nipping me. It had never happened previously nor has it happened since; it obviously hurt him a lot though and through simple pain reaction the body's first thoughts were to do whatever possible to stop the pain, which could have meant a nip.

He went very submissive after that and as I said, it never happened again. I of course took extra special care to be very very gentle when brushing that area in the future.

This does not excuse anyone or anything, just putting it out there as it appears that no one actually saw exactly what happened in regards to the salon. The victims as said are the child and dog and the blame I feel can fall on the charges of both of them. (the charges, meaning, the people looking after them)

If the dog has been in there for years with no problems, I can only assume that he isn't a ferocious dog that should be PTS, but it was just a very unfortunate accident. Hopefully the dog will escape with his life and his owner will be wiser now, and properly contain the dog so that even if it was an accident, it won't happen again.

[BittyMooPeeb]

That doesn't mean that it was ok that the parent let their child approach a strange dog when it was eating.

Since when is a hairdressing salon an appropriate place for a dog to eat?

Agreed

But also, since when is a hairdressing salon an appropirate place for a child to wander around?

It gives me the irrits when people treat a business as their personal child minders.

This could have just as easily happened in the street, or in someones house if a toddler is allowed to run around unsupervised.

Dotn you love how the media exaggerate . A cut lip descibed as "serious facial injuries". I'm sure they just make up most of what they write

[Akayla]

I dont think any one is saying they would have a dog PTSd cause it reacted as a one off. The point is if this dog IS allowed to go home I would think they would want to be proactive regardless of what restrictions are placed on it. Example - dont allow the dog run of the shop - restrain it when unsupervised, muzzle the dog when you are in a situation where something unpredictable might happen.

Now after a conversation on the weekend I have thought a bit more about some issues. See in Canberra we are only just getting enclosed public dog parks so before then (given the size and population of Canberra) it was very difficult say to walk a dog without having children, dogs ect present. Its something I guess you learn to live with. However after visiting Melbourne talking to people there I realise not all places are like this and some have the luxury of being able to avoid people.

So I think a muzzle would depend on where you lived and if you had access to an area like this where you could really be sure not to say have school kids run past ect. But if they lived and walked their dog in an area where an incodence like this COULD happen again I would muzzle. Im not being nasty to the dog but concerned they WILL be PTSd if the owners do nothing. To society a dog that does bite twice is a accident waiting to happen and really as responsible dog owners now that they know there dog can/will react to discomfort or shock by biting they need to take steps to protect the public the same way as we call for the public to provide some protection for our dogs. Its gotta be a compramise.

I would also like to say Id never allow my daughter to approach a strange dog (especially one thats unrestrained) and teach her that there are ways to handle any type of animal. But if she just fell and bumped a dog and it reacted badly enough to cause that kind of damage be sure Id be VERY angry with the owners. I wouldnt ask for them to destroy the dog but I would ask for it to be muzzled in public. I think thats fair.

There has to be some give on both sides.