Roaching Topline

[sas]

- PLUS I don't want to reward him for roaching at all. We haven't been doing much stacking at all really.. I don't want to make him hate it already!!!

He's not roaching to tic you off, he either has a conformation problem or he has a back problem that can be assisted by Bowen/Muscle Manipulation/Chiro.

If he's not liking hand stacking it can either mean he's testing boundaries or it's actually uncomfortable for him.

[poodlefan]

My initial reaction to the stacked shot is that he's A-Framing. That would encourage roaching. His front legs are not under his shoulders. You need to set him up better in the front end so that his front legs are vertical.

Raising his head like that wouldn't be helping..not easy to balance and relax in a position with all weight is going to the back end. Hemay be having trouble holding the stack so stretched back.

Generally he seems to lack muscle on his top line - his spine is very prominant. What exercise does he get?

Edited November 22, 2009 by poodlefan

[Bilbo Baggins]

Our young cav hasa terrible topline and is bum high.

had Bowen last week plus some of her food supplement and the difference is amazing. He is 9 months old so has the ganglies and is all over the shop.

[:ange:]

He's not roaching to tic you off, he either has a conformation problem or he has a back problem that can be assisted by Bowen/Muscle Manipulation/Chiro.

The rest of the post meant he roached even worse when hand stacking - not just the fact I didn't want to reward for roaching - If I hand stacked him inside he will tense up and make the roach even worse. I realise he's not roaching to annoy me.. I KNOW there's a problem there, which is why we're doing Bowen

PF, did you see the above stacked picture? (Not sure if you read through other posts or not) He's not A-framing in that one much and can see his topline far better.. The roach is still there.

As said in previous post, I'm really strict about his exercise, he's a bit of a flying monkey and leaps and throws himself about with my older bitch when they are together. They are never unsupervised together, and I have been keeping them apart as much as possible. I have been focusing on doing exercise with him to try and strengthen his topline and rear end as much as possible. Encouraging walking and unfortunately he's still young and frightened of the water so swimming isn't really possible just yet.

I will try your suggestions Ellz and see how we go.. usually he's a little firecracker on the lead and wants to go go go.

[my_sibe_owns_me]

Looks like hes high in rear. At 4mos he is going through the "uglies" puppies look their worst and have to grow into themselves.

Ex. At 4mos my sibe puppy was high in rear. now at 15 mos her topline is level again.

Ex. my first show do is high in rear. At 6 mos I think her bum was higher then her head!!! Sssssooooo dippy. However when she moves her topline levels right out.

[poodlefan]

PF, did you see the above stacked picture? (Not sure if you read through other posts or not) He's not A-framing in that one much and can see his topline far better.. The roach is still there.

Yes, I did. Yes, I think he is A-framing although not severely. His front legs are not perpendicular to the ground.. he's not got his feet under his wither and he's leaning back. You need to set him up so he's standing under himself a little more.

I'd be swimming him if that's possible. I'm no expert but he seems to be lacking muscle on that topline. I'd like to see him flex his head down a little from the neck, that should stop his back hollowing. Has he seen a chiro?

Edited November 23, 2009 by poodlefan

[silverdog]

I agree with others who have said hand stacking a pup that is being uncooperative can create a roach, and moving them on lead when they are resisting the collar and putting their head down will greatly emphasize a roachy topline and make them look bum high. And yes, he is straight in the stifle, which won't be helping the situation.

It's a bit of a red flag for me if he is roaching ALL the time, even when relaxed. That to me that suggests either a pain problem somewhere or a conformation problem (which could in turn be causing the pain..it's a vicious cyle).

Most weims that roach when being stacked (because they are resistiing), loose the roach when moving out, or vice versa.

A puppy with a good topline will always have moments when you can see that good topline. Even when they are going through the puppy uglies. They will be bouncing around in the garden then see something and freeze, and you will go "yes.. there is that lovely topline I saw as an 8 week old.."

When did you first notice the roach?

To be honest, I'm pretty sure I can see a problem even in the picture of him as a 3 mo old, but he is also being handstacked in that photo too, so could be as a result of that. He doesn't look overly bum high, either, although if you had him stacked so his hocks were perpendicular to the ground, instead of him being overextended, his bum would come up a bit.

Do you have any pictures of him moving off lead? Or just standing relaxed off lead? What about when his attention is on something fascinating in front of him so he naturally drops his back and and leans forward over his front, so he is no longer A-framing? I know, they don't always stay still long enough for a photo at this stage. LOL.

Did your breeder take any assessment photos of the litter at 8 weeks? Or even just candids? It would be interesting to see his puppy photos, and to compare him to his siblings at this stage.

[DANERANGER]

Your puppy seems to be roaching just after the point of the anticlinal vertebra and lumbar region, whilst you have some great advice already from other members, you need to stop looking at him and allow him to grow, as stated previously this is just the uglies, not all puppies do this but some do and grow into themselves.

Don't allow him to rough house with other dogs, keep in close contact with your breeder in regards to the matter, your breeder will best advise you what to do or not what to do.

Personally I think you are moving this puppy too fast, slow him down and allow him to relax when on lead. His movement photo shows his movement is all over the shop and if the vets and other qualified experts say there is nothing wrong with your puppy, stop worrying and just let him grow. Stop looking at him at least until he is 12months of age.

I have had 2 Great Danes previously do this as young pups, chiro and vet checked them out and nothing wrong and they both had lovely toplines as adults.

Good luck.

[Bokezu]

How old was he when you got him? guessing around 8 weeks, did you notice the slight roach then? if it has always been noticeable, I would be getting him x-rayed now.