Bokezu Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 I agree, it is so awful to get bad news...........but to know you are not alone, there are others that have been through it all, and know just how scared you are feeling........it is a real comfort, and you hear others have been much worse off and lost their precious babies...DOL is wonderful, don't know how I would cope on my own THANKYOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Bokezu, big hugs from me. I really wish there was some way I could help. I am relieved you don't seem to be upset with me giving you the tough news. You certainly do not owe me any thanks, but you are very welcome anyway. ;) I do understand how scared you must be. I feel so worried for you. I hope you are coping OK, and hoping you have a wonderful support team at home. I am feeling quite confident Jordy is going to be OK. You are doing everything you can, just hang in there. You need to look after yourself as much as you can, as you will really stretched physically and emotionally when he comes home. I remember sitting with Dyzney in IC at AEC Frankston and Hallam each day telling her she had to get better. I kept telling this over and over again. I told her I needed her to get well so we could continue to do all the fun stuff we always did together. I also did healing on her when I visited. When I lay awake in bed at home at night I would be visualising her well and happy. I am not religious, but I prayed and prayed. I did everything I could think of to give her every possible chance. I will never know if any of this helped, but it felt good to me and she pulled through against the odds, so that's all that matters. Jordy can pull through too. He loves you and he so much life left to live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 thanks for letting me know how hard it can be, I came into this thinking it would be a lot easier.....I honestly had no idea I hope the vet is doing the right thing by not doing a transfusion tonight, the drop in red cells again is a worry, but like she said it is good to see little baby platelets........hope they survive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 It's OK bokezu, initially it was coming across that you may have thought it was going to be an easy fix disease, and that's what was worrying me. I did hope it would be easy for you, and still hope it is gets sorted quickly, but I know it doesn't always go that way. But how were you to know otherwise. When you have not had to deal with something like this before, you have no way of knowing and how could you. ...but you learn pretty quickly when you are up against it don't you?! Hope we get some wonderful news about Jordy's immune system responding today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Just spoke with the vet, his count has dropped quite low, no platelets he is looking very unwell, they will do a transfusion soon, I know it won't be straight away, but just wish they would do it and wish it had been done last night so so upset atm its not what I expected to hear ;) Edited November 22, 2009 by Bokezu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Oh Boke, I am very upset to hear Jordy is not so good this morning. Yes, I think perhaps another transfusion possible should have been done last night, but what's done is done now. He may need several over the next day or 2. Was wondering if you want to suggest the Cyclosporin to the vets. The specialist think that is what got dyzney over the line, as she had her first dose of it at day 3 or 4 I think, and then had her first turning of the corner at day 5.5. Like I said earlier, I can express post some to you, as it is very expensive, (of course you can have mine for nothing). Anyway your vet may not think it is a good idea...??? Hope he picks up with this latest transfusion. Need to watch for arythmia (not sure of spelling) as the transfusions can cause this also. Good luck sweety. Big hugs and lots of prayers and healing thoughts from me. Edited November 22, 2009 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 thanks dyzney, I will suggest the cyclosporin to her. She said she is going to increase the pred to maximum dose.. another vet takes over this afternoon she might have different ideas.........so thought he was going to be better this morning, have been trying to be so positive because normally I tend to always think the worst.... I am shattered right now, I'll prob feel better once he's had the transfusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 No probs Boze, have just PMd you. come on Jordy. get better for your mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiery_di Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Another thing I remembered from doing loads of my research back when Ruby had the disease that Vitamin C (although still inconclusive) had some positive outcomes with auto-immune diseases. It is worth a shot. I had Ruby on Vitamin C supplements for a couple of years. Dont know if it helped her case, but the vet at the time said it was worth a shot, and there was no possible way to overdose on it anyway. The body pretty much takes what it needs and discards the rest. I'm sorry to hear that Jordy is not doing so well. Please keep us updated on his progress and know that we are here and wanting & hoping that Jordy pulls through this!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiery_di Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Here is the thread from a while back that I found out Vitamin C helping generate more platelet count.. HTH.. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...&hl=Vitamin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiery_di Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Here also is a link I found on more research on Vitamin C & ITP.. http://www.pdsa.org/itp-journal-stories/vitcart.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 thanks FD will have a read...I just rang and they are crossmatching the blood now, he is stable and they will ring me if there is the slightest change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Glad he is stable Bokezu. Have they yet asked about using one of your other dogs as a blood donor? Can't remember the issues, but something to do with Jordy only being able to take so many transfusions from non cross matched or something. I might have that wrong, but there is certainly a limit with the transfusions relating to something. It is something you can ask about if they have not mentioned it as yet. Edited November 23, 2009 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiery_di Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Found another thread about AIHA (the red blood count disorder) too, which may give some helpful information.. http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...755&hl=imha Edited November 23, 2009 by fiery_di Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 Found another thread about AIHA (the red blood count disorder) too, which may give some helpful information..http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...755&hl=imha thanks FD ....that really brings home how devastating and how hard this/these diseases are to beat........wasn't even thinking of recurrence of the disease...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hi Bokezu, when we had Ruby PTS one of the reason was because the specialists told us there was probably a 25% chance of her having a full recovery and even if she did about 50% chance of recurrence still after that. I am not sure if those stats are correct, but is what I was told. Ruby was on track, but was so weak that she could not lift herself up and walk on her own from the cortisone. It was going to be weeks and weeks befofe she was going to gain back some muscle tone. I had to work away from home one day per week, and it was coming to that day again, so even though it sounds really awful, after much discussion and thought, we decided to PTS. she had been through so much over the last couople of months and I could not bear to continue seeing her so low and with her vomitting, it was so worrying leaving her all day. I was scared she would get up and fall over and be stuck all day waiting for me to get home or bleed internally. But on the upside, to date we have had no recurrence with Dyzney, though we are careful and vigilent always. The risk of recurrence is why I kept asking you if you had worked out what you thought may have brought it on so you can steer clear of it in the future. So, yes recurrence is a possibility, but we have dyzney here to prove that it is not necessarily going to happen. We have even given her worming tablets, Advocate, ear cleanser and a few different things slowly over time. We watch her closely, and if in doubt we go off for bloods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 dyzney how long has she gone without recurrence? we cannot think of anything that could have caused this my dogs are raw fed (lots of chicken) also have Advance, my dogs have always been healthy, my eldest is nearly nine, I have never been one to over vaccinate, I am even careful with worming tabs, don't do heartworm, no other treatments at all. In one of the pens the two youngsters go of a day if we are both at work, the roof is lined with insulation bats, noticed some had been pulled out in pieces, my husband had used round-up weed killer a few weeks ago, I told the vet who said it was safe ...........no weed killer is safe in my opinion....active ingredient glyphosate will do a check on it now, and thats it, nothing else at all that I can think of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiery_di Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Hey guys. After reading back on some threads trying to remember a few things I came across a post from Dogbesotted where she stated that she lost her Morris to lymphoma. Previous to this her Morris was diagnosed with ITP. My Ruby also passed from lymphoma.. Here is msgs back and forth between us both that might shed some more light onto ai diseases and perhaps a link to cancer/tumour.. Hey dogbesotted!! Just reading back on a thread of yours where you mentioned Morris had ITP then later died of Lymphoma.. My Ruby had ITP, and then passed away from Lymphoma back in Apr 08. I dont know if this is coincidence, but maybe there is a correlation with the two?? Love to hear your thoughts on it. FD Greetings! FD I dont know but a friend ofmine who is a vet reckons that there is a link. but maybe it is a wonky immune systems or something. she thought that when the Moz was dxd first with ITP that he had cancer and wondered why no further investigations were done. thats two coincidences that we know of so i am assuming there are many many others and therefore it is not a coincidence. maybe we sould search a bitmore. Hey Helen!! I would be more than keen to do more research!! Interestingly Ruby had an overactive thyroid back around the end of 05. The vets were astounded (specialist Max Zuber) as overactive is extremely rare in dogs, BUT there was an almost 100% correlation of it with cancer or tumour. There was no discovered tumour or cancer in Ruby. Ruby had half her thyroid removed as she had 'unusual' cells on one side of her thyroid. It all just seems too coincidental dont you think?? I still think that there is also a correlation between auto-immune disease and ivermectin, as to what I am not sure, but I am not 100% that ivermectin causes it, but I certainly believe it aggravates auto immune conditions that are already lying dormant if that makes sense?? Anyway, I will do some research and keep you posted!! Cheers, Di interesting about the ivermectin. . just before Morris developed ITP he had been given his yearly vac booster - a matter of two days or so. auto immune disease is such a complex area i think and so many dogs seem to be developingit.. some heartworm meds are ivermectin based H Ok, so I did a quick google and came up with the following link.. Under the results heading it had this sentence that struck out to me.. *In three cases the ITP was diagnosed 1–10 years before diagnosis of lymphoma* (this is in humans of course) http://www.haematologica.org/cgi/content/full/93/3/447 ..another interesting paragraph with link to it below.. The diagnosis of ITP is usually one of exclusion of underlying systemic disorders that result in increased peripheral destruction or decreased production of platelets. ITP is an autoimmune disorder characterized by auto reactive antibodies against platelets resulting in splenic sequestration and thrombocytopenia. Immune mediated thrombocytopenia can also occur in the settings of lymphoproliferative disorders, especially chronic lymphocytic leukemia. The association between ITP and lymphoma, in particular Hodgkin disease, has also been frequently reported [4, 5, 6]. There have been approx 20 cases of ITP reported in association with various solid tumors, including lung, breast, and ovarian cancers [7, 8, 9]. Kim and Boggs [10] reported malignancy in 10 of 52 consecutive patients admitted for ITP; six of the ten cases had solid tumors. http://www.joplink.net/prev/200611/15.html Anyway, from my quick little look I am of the assumption that Ruby had the underlying issue of lymphoma (most probably affecting her bone marrow) that she was battling for years unbeknownst to us, and that the ITP was a sub-symptom of the lymphoma.. So there does seem to be a link to the both!! Hmmm interesting stuff!! Cheers, Di well damnation!!!!!! Morris developed Lymphoma about a year or so after ITP. prior to ITP he appeared healthy a active. he was 5 years old then.. athletic pig dog ( loved pig well roasted with lightly steamed sno peas followed by vanilla ice cream as a treat ) we have both learned something today I think thanks helen interesting about the ivermectin. . just before Morris developed ITP he had been given his yearly vac booster - a matter of two days or so. auto immune disease is such a complex area i think and so many dogs seem to be developingit.. some heartworm meds are ivermectin based H Yeh, the first time I discovered Ruby's ITP was a week after she had the Proheart SR12 yearly injection. Again, her platelet levels dropped again about a week after her booster for the ProHeart again.. That is when I considered the link and decided to cease any further heartworm treatments on her. How long did Morris fight the ITP?? Di Morris fought ITP hard for 3 months until his platelets were again "normal". he nearly died three times, and had 4 blood transfusions. then had major surgery for bladder stones due to the pred. was just recovering from that and Looking fantastic when I discovered all his lymph nodes swollen whiol;e bathing him. he was gone 6 weeks later ( along with a goodly piece of my heart) Helen ************************** This is the end of our pm posts. I truly do think that there is a correlation with AI diseases such as ITP and Lymphoma. It is definitely worth checking it out. Ruby had the ITP from end 03 till the start of 06.. She had overactive thyroid end of 05 (another disorder linked to cancer in dogs) THEN she died from Lymphoma in Apr 08. I honestly feel that the Lymphoma was ailing her for years, but we just never knew until I guess it got to a Level 3 that eventually became her undoing.. I hope this helps. I know it must seem random my links/postings and that I perhaps clutching at straws, but having gone through what I did with Ruby I just want to help in any way I can so that we have more information to help prevent losing our precious ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Dyz was diagnosed with IMT on sat 10th Feb 2007. She finished all meds approx June, so she has been recurrence and meds free for approx 17 months. She was desexed in July last year, shortly after being taken of the meds, as the hormones during seasons can bring it on also. We knew she was near due to come into season, but we were so scared to desex also because of the anaesthetic. But we decided to go ahead anyway. The specialist did it for us and they spent extra time ensuring all small blood vessels were closed off. She was given morphine during recovery, no anti-biotics and had no side affects. She recovered well, with constants blood tests. She has just started trailling again also. Dyzney will never look the same again, but we don't care. She is alive and well and she is our little miracle girl. From what you are saying, I would be very suspicious about the insulation and the round up. Don't believe what vets tell you about what is and isn't safe, because no one knows. I am not saying they are intentionally lying, they just cannot really say because it is unknown. It is not necessarily drugs that are poisonous or harmful on that level. It is about the dog carrying a predisposition to some sort of environmental component setting off it's immune system. As I mentioned earlier, thousands of people use rimadyl everyday on their dogs with no ill side affects, yet we had one. Same with Stibestrol. someone I know, their rotti contracted it when walking through a grape plantation several time during a peiod of a few weeks, and there had been pesticides sprayed heavily in the area... that is why they believe their dog got it. another friend's dog was swimming in a dam that was later found with blue/green algae... she suspects this is how her dog it. One of these dogs died and the other I am unsure about. You may never know Boke, but it would be an idea to totally eliminate any possibilities just to be on the safe side. How is he this arvo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bokezu Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 they have started the transfusion and I can go and see him at 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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