westielover Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 On Landline over the weekend there was a fantastic story about a Working Dog Survey and training methods for working dogs on the farm. Enjoy Landline - Train the Trainer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks, I enjoyed that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Pfft....he reckons Border Collies are better than Kelpies.....only for 3 sheep trials!!! What sort of dog was doing the tough job of backing of the sheep up the race.....a Kelpie of course Seriously, it was an interesting docco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westielover Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Pfft....he reckons Border Collies are better than Kelpies.....only for 3 sheep trials!!! I thought the same thing!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Pfft....he reckons Border Collies are better than Kelpies.....only for 3 sheep trials!!! . ...........and agilty and frisbee and fyball and and and........... Seriously from me - I found it really interesting. 'Punishment starts where understanding stops', is a quote that comes to mind.' Also - FTR - I want a kelpie for my next dog, but OH just won't allow it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cry123 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Pfft....he reckons Border Collies are better than Kelpies.....only for 3 sheep trials!!! What sort of dog was doing the tough job of backing of the sheep up the race.....a Kelpie of course Seriously, it was an interesting docco. My husband does three sheep trials (and is pretty good too!!) His first love is kelpies, and he is determined to be very successful with the kelpies over the BC's!!!! He trials both BC's and kelpies, but he defiantely loves his kelpies. My husband won at the National SHeep trials this year with a kelpie. we love beating the BC's at thier own game!! (and all of our kelpies he trials are now open dogs as well!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I have often felt a vague concern about the enormous variation in the conditions under which working dogs are housed and maintained. I have yet to fully check out the Landline story and all of the topics addressed in the current research project but I hope that it will produce minimum guidelines for the care of working dogs. Anecdotes from personal knowledge include: - farmers who house their working dogs in the exactly same way as their fathers and grandfathers did in hollow logs, disused iron water tanks and 44 gallon drums without bedding - sometimes the same drums; in all climates from tropical to alpine - dogs tethered and fed together in groups where the surrounding ground is never cleaned up - dogs tethered at properties where a non-resident farmer leaves them with food for several days at a time - dogs fed entirely on undressed kangaroo or other feral meat - dogs housed in purpose built above ground slat floored runs - all dogs owned by one person always called the same name i.e. "B#st#rd", so it was easy to yell "get in there you B#st#rd! push em up you B#st#rd! come here you B#st#rd etc. Also, working dogs are not required to be microchipped in States where chipping is mandatory for all other dogs I don't know enough to be too judgemental about all this but hope that the present research will include gathering facts and devising a set of minimum guidelines in keeping with currently legislated benchmarks for canine health and welfare in the wider community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cry123 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I have often felt a vague concern about the enormous variation in the conditions under which working dogs are housed and maintained. I have yet to fully check out the Landline story and all of the topics addressed in the current research project but I hope that it will produce minimum guidelines for the care of working dogs.Anecdotes from personal knowledge include: - farmers who house their working dogs in the exactly same way as their fathers and grandfathers did in hollow logs, disused iron water tanks and 44 gallon drums without bedding - sometimes the same drums; in all climates from tropical to alpine - dogs tethered and fed together in groups where the surrounding ground is never cleaned up - dogs tethered at properties where a non-resident farmer leaves them with food for several days at a time - dogs fed entirely on undressed kangaroo or other feral meat - dogs housed in purpose built above ground slat floored runs - all dogs owned by one person always called the same name i.e. "B#st#rd", so it was easy to yell "get in there you B#st#rd! push em up you B#st#rd! come here you B#st#rd etc. Also, working dogs are not required to be microchipped in States where chipping is mandatory for all other dogs I don't know enough to be too judgemental about all this but hope that the present research will include gathering facts and devising a set of minimum guidelines in keeping with currently legislated benchmarks for canine health and welfare in the wider community. "I don't know enough to be too judgemental about all this" Then you obviously CANNNOT comment, as we have working dogs I find some of your comments VERY VERY offensive. I am sorry, but people like you that have no idea and make HUGE generalisations really annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dova Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) Pfft....he reckons Border Collies are better than Kelpies.....only for 3 sheep trials!!! What sort of dog was doing the tough job of backing of the sheep up the race.....a Kelpie of course Seriously, it was an interesting docco. yep when he said that I could see bricks being thrown at TV sets all over the country , I've got Coolies but gotta say have a huge soft spot for Kelpies as well. I watched Landline Saturday & really enjoyed it. Merijigs there's a farmer near us who treats his dog's really bad & shouldn't have them , won't go into detail, but there's also a lot farm dogs that have a good life & love their work, pretty sure you weren't having a go at all working dog owners just the ones like our neighbour. Edited November 17, 2009 by Dova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I can't take responsibility for your feelings, only the words of my post. The specific cases I mentioned are all derived from my personal observations and experience. The experiences of a single person are naturally limited and that is why I remain open to the receipt of further information before coming to any distinct conclusion about the care and maintenance of most working dogs. If you wish to discuss my words further I am perfectly willing to respond to your PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cry123 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I can't take responsibility for your feelings, only the words of my post. The specific cases I mentioned are all derived from my personal observations and experience. The experiences of a single person are naturally limited and that is why I remain open to the receipt of further information before coming to any distinct conclusion about the care and maintenance of most working dogs. If you wish to discuss my words further I am perfectly willing to respond to your PM. I just dont like generalisations. I know there are people out there who dont treat there dogs as they should be, but this isnt restricted to working dogs. We have working dogs, which are both working and trial dogs. They are our life. Forgive me, but still everytime I read your post it bugs me. Plus you cannot write comments like that and not expect people to be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The only 'generalisation' in my original post was a generalised concern I've felt for a long time about the enormous variation in the conditions under which working dogs are housed and maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) I just dont like generalisations. I know there are people out there who dont treat there dogs as they should be, but this isnt restricted to working dogs. Well said Cry123. I've grown up around working dogs, spent time jillarooing in the Riverina on several different stations and I now have a customer base of 100 or so farms that I visit regularly. Yes there are some working dogs who aren't looked after quite to the standard that I would like to see, but nearly all of them are way better off than the dog two houses down who gets no time spent with it, never gets out of the backyard and is left alone for days at a time. ;) Our working dogs always had access to shade, always had a kennel to sleep in. Tried many times to put old blankets or even straw in the kennels, it was often dragged out of the kennel by the end of the day and most of our dogs slept in the dirt holes they had dug around their kennel. They were given a run daily, regardless of whether they were needed or not, and often got taken out for the day even if they weren't needed when fencing or similar type jobs needed to be done. Please don't tar all farmers with the same brush. Edited November 17, 2009 by Jess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cry123 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Exactly Jess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I made sure I watched it & enjoyed it even if the bcs didn't do all the hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Great Jess, So glad to hear of the consideration you and the people you work with extend to their working dogs. However, you did say "Yes there are some working dogs who aren't looked after quite to the standard that I would like to see" and that's what I was saying too. I am not tarring all farmers with the same brush but I do get the distinct impression that public scrutiny of the conditions of working dogs has been far less than that of pet animals. For example, I know of one farmer who point blank refuses to secure his dogs on the tray of his ute when he is travelling between paddocks and properties, even along a highway. This is against the law. Where is the enforcement? All the examples I gave were real ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merijigs Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 PS: The working dog survery reported on by Landline has revealed that 20% of respondents use electric shock collars to train dogs. Imagine that in the obedience class or competition - I don't think so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 PS: The working dog survery reported on by Landline has revealed that 20% of respondents use electric shock collars to train dogs. Imagine that in the obedience class or competition - I don't think so! Go and read the DOL training forum and see how many members use e-collars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cry123 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Great Jess,So glad to hear of the consideration you and the people you work with extend to their working dogs. However, you did say "Yes there are some working dogs who aren't looked after quite to the standard that I would like to see" and that's what I was saying too. I am not tarring all farmers with the same brush but I do get the distinct impression that public scrutiny of the conditions of working dogs has been far less than that of pet animals. For example, I know of one farmer who point blank refuses to secure his dogs on the tray of his ute when he is travelling between paddocks and properties, even along a highway. This is against the law. Where is the enforcement? All the examples I gave were real ones. Ok, merijigs, i do agree with you that there are some people that could improve the way they look after thier working dogs, BUT like i said earlier this is not restricted to working dogs. We have working and trial dogs and they live a very good life. Our dogs actually live in "dogs housed in purpose built above ground slat floored runs", which you have mentioned as a negitive, I am not sure why?? I can list MANY positives. I do have to say that two of our pet hates are traveeling dogs unrestrained and electric collars. So we are in agreeance there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) PS: The working dog survery reported on by Landline has revealed that 20% of respondents use electric shock collars to train dogs. Imagine that in the obedience class or competition - I don't think so! Good use of the e-collar IMO is often kinder than traditional methods of and other training tools dog training - for obedience and for other things. It is a matter of knowing and understanding how the e-collar can be and often is used by those who are experienced at it, before deciding on an opinion of whether it is good or bad . Oh - and anyone who does know and understand the e-collar do not refer to them as "shock" collars. Back in the 'olden' days, they were that. The collars of today are far more sophisticated now ..... they've developed a long way from the 'shock' collars of yesteryear, as have the method of use. Edited November 17, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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