Ptolomy Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Tricky subject that! If you start with a good stable temperament you can build drive, particularly for obedience. If you want to compete in retrieving trials you need to speak to people involved in that. If you want dynamite speed and drive for agility you need to choose very carefully and that sort of pup will probably drive you and Mason mad! So you need to be very aware of what you want (as I know you are ) Do you have a breed preference?I should have been a bit clearer in my first post - i also want the 2nd dog to compete in obedience with not just for Mason. Would only be looking at getting the new pup nov/ dec this year or early next year. Bedazzled i have thought about the drive issue and while mas will always be my special dog I dont think he has the drive to go higher than open in obedience. He could prove me wrong tho as i am no expert Eta - is drive something that runs in certain lines or how does it work exactly??? My 10 cents worth - its much easier to work with a dog that you don't have to motivate or negotiate with. I have had dogs where yes I get a great score with but I come out of the ring exhausted because it required so much effort from me to motivate them. Give me a Cider any day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Such a huge trip for doggies that are not used to travelling. I am coming up in the middle of June for the ET and an onedience trial. Hopefully I will meet some of you lovely people when I am up there Sorry RS I had LOTS of reading to catch up so I could post in this thread Which obedience trial are u doing ?? Umm I think it is the Northern Suburbs one, it is the Sunday after the ET trial anyway at Carine Open space or something similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Tricky subject that! If you start with a good stable temperament you can build drive, particularly for obedience. If you want to compete in retrieving trials you need to speak to people involved in that. If you want dynamite speed and drive for agility you need to choose very carefully and that sort of pup will probably drive you and Mason mad! So you need to be very aware of what you want (as I know you are ) Do you have a breed preference?I should have been a bit clearer in my first post - i also want the 2nd dog to compete in obedience with not just for Mason. Would only be looking at getting the new pup nov/ dec this year or early next year. Bedazzled i have thought about the drive issue and while mas will always be my special dog I dont think he has the drive to go higher than open in obedience. He could prove me wrong tho as i am no expert Eta - is drive something that runs in certain lines or how does it work exactly??? My 10 cents worth - its much easier to work with a dog that you don't have to motivate or negotiate with. I have had dogs where yes I get a great score with but I come out of the ring exhausted because it required so much effort from me to motivate them. Give me a Cider any day Serious question - how do you find a dog like Strauss with a decent but not OMGOMGOMG level of drive like Cider to work with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Strauss could be something very special, the little bits he does now are beautiful and I have to be honest and say up until now I have had the mindset that he is a stud dog, he is not like Cider and I don't really have the time to put into him. But thinking about it - what he does now has been achieved with very little effort on my part. I now don't have lots of dogs to play with and I have had a change of mindset and I will be spending more time on Strauss and Cider. He does play, he does retrieve and he does love food - so while he is not as driven in Cider - he could in fact be better than she. Bedazzled and I often say the highest scoring rounds that we get out of Scoota and Brooklyn are those that are not over the top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) From my limited experience I would tend to agree - not sure drive is totally all its cracked up to be if Kenz's rounds are anything to go by - then again that might just be the trainer . Edited May 5, 2011 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Just do what bedazzled does - go for the naughty one!!!! Don't believe when she says her Isaak is naughty, butter wouldn't melt in those pirahna - I mean puppy jaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Strauss could be something very special, the little bits he does now are beautiful and I have to be honest and say up until now I have had the mindset that he is a stud dog, he is not like Cider and I don't really have the time to put into him. But thinking about it - what he does now has been achieved with very little effort on my part.I now don't have lots of dogs to play with and I have had a change of mindset and I will be spending more time on Strauss and Cider. He does play, he does retrieve and he does love food - so while he is not as driven in Cider - he could in fact be better than she. Bedazzled and I often say the highest scoring rounds that we get out of Scoota and Brooklyn are those that are not over the top! I dont really know your dogs that well P but I just love Strauss he is just lovely. I would say that i have not trained mason in a way that makes him very driven but yet i seem to be getting very consistent rounds out of him so far for CCD. Will he be able to do a UD Round where he will need more drive ... I am not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Such a huge trip for doggies that are not used to travelling. I am coming up in the middle of June for the ET and an onedience trial. Hopefully I will meet some of you lovely people when I am up there Sorry RS I had LOTS of reading to catch up so I could post in this thread Which obedience trial are u doing ?? Umm I think it is the Northern Suburbs one, it is the Sunday after the ET trial anyway at Carine Open space or something similar. thats my club, we will be there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Drive makes things a little easier but not the end of the world. I think my biggest hassle with Ness and UD isn't a lack of drive but its having trained her so wrongly from the start and having had years of history to undo. If you have a reasonably motivated dog (either food or toy) and you train correctly from the beginning I do think its possible. I think the more drive the dog has the more forgiving they are of mistakes in the training process. Least thats my view from my two - I am sure Ness would have had a UD title if she had been trained more and bribed less in the early days. She has some drive but certainly not to the levels Kenz has - having said that its all really hard to know how much is training anyway versus inherrent drive. Consistency in my view plays a huge part in the final result (will now slink out of this thread before Ptolomy gets our her stick which she tried to beat me with for years ineffectively ). And the other thing I do think matters is what else you do with the dog. The higher drive dogs might get away with doing more activities outside of training but if you want a trial dog to put full effort into there training then you don't go walking them 6km a day and still expect a UD performance on the same day . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I have tried with mason to make him work stuff out with all our training and he loves thinking for himself. I try not to bribe where possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedazzledx2 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 OMG! I really don't think Mason's family could cope with my Zac!!! I came home from work today and said to Mum "I think he's settling down" She rolled her eyes and said "you think? " I gather he's been a pain...oh well..he'll settle down soon...maybe! Just do what bedazzled does - go for the naughty one!!!! Don't believe when she says her Isaak is naughty, butter wouldn't melt in those pirahna - I mean puppy jaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 OMG! I really don't think Mason's family could cope with my Zac!!! I came home from work today and said to Mum "I think he's settling down" She rolled her eyes and said "you think? " I gather he's been a pain...oh well..he'll settle down soon...maybe! Just do what bedazzled does - go for the naughty one!!!! Don't believe when she says her Isaak is naughty, butter wouldn't melt in those pirahna - I mean puppy jaws Aww he looks so sweet mason was crazy as a pup, i think i killed his drive by working on him being too calm. He was like a hyperactive kid with ADD he used to jump up on the lounge and zoom from 1 end to the other so fast we could nit catch him - he used to get time outs as he was craaaazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Interesting viewpoint Ptolomy, Ness and Bedazzled. I think it's a bit of a genetics, the way the pup is raised and lottery My next pup I am hoping to get something like Strauss temp wise, very adaptable and social without being over the top, enjoys food, toys and fetch but leaves you with fingers! The one after I might get a feral Cider type I actually think Toby is quite toy driven BUT anxietys of his make him shut down away from his comfort zones. At home I have much better success training with toys then food, he is quite frantic for the opportunity to fetch! I know Ness's Kenz tug drive helped her overcome her anxiety and to an extent this is true for Toby, except if there is another dog anywhere in the vacinity, then he gets nervous of them and won't take the ball in case the other dog is a resource guarder and attcks him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Interesting viewpoint Ptolomy, Ness and Bedazzled. I think it's a bit of a genetics, the way the pup is raised and lottery My next pup I am hoping to get something like Strauss temp wise, very adaptable and social without being over the top, enjoys food, toys and fetch but leaves you with fingers! The one after I might get a feral Cider type I actually think Toby is quite toy driven BUT anxietys of his make him shut down away from his comfort zones. At home I have much better success training with toys then food, he is quite frantic for the opportunity to fetch! I know Ness's Kenz tug drive helped her overcome her anxiety and to an extent this is true for Toby, except if there is another dog anywhere in the vacinity, then he gets nervous of them and won't take the ball in case the other dog is a resource guarder and attcks him. I have the opposite, mason will do anything for food... Toys he will take or leave but he lives for food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Interesting viewpoint Ptolomy, Ness and Bedazzled. I think it's a bit of a genetics, the way the pup is raised and lottery My next pup I am hoping to get something like Strauss temp wise, very adaptable and social without being over the top, enjoys food, toys and fetch but leaves you with fingers! The one after I might get a feral Cider type I actually think Toby is quite toy driven BUT anxietys of his make him shut down away from his comfort zones. At home I have much better success training with toys then food, he is quite frantic for the opportunity to fetch! I know Ness's Kenz tug drive helped her overcome her anxiety and to an extent this is true for Toby, except if there is another dog anywhere in the vacinity, then he gets nervous of them and won't take the ball in case the other dog is a resource guarder and attcks him. I have the opposite, mason will do anything for food... Toys he will take or leave but he lives for food Toby has been known to refuse chicken breast when he is anxious And if he won't take food he definately won't play But he is improving I think raised differently, without the whole broken leg missed socialization/bad expirence in the home with a resource guarder, he would have been a much drivier dog. However I think he will get there, in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I know a great way to build drive - nearly 5 months of limited training and exercise with a shoulder injury - hmmm don't recommend it though and no Kenz really didn't need any more drive what we had was plenty. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lab_Rat Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 OMG! I really don't think Mason's family could cope with my Zac!!! I came home from work today and said to Mum "I think he's settling down" She rolled her eyes and said "you think? ;)" I gather he's been a pain...oh well..he'll settle down soon...maybe! Just do what bedazzled does - go for the naughty one!!!! Don't believe when she says her Isaak is naughty, butter wouldn't melt in those pirahna - I mean puppy jaws :D :dancingelephant: How old is young Zac now Bedazzled???? I hope he settles down a bit sooner than my mad ridgy Shes coming up 5 years old next month and still behaves like a 6 month old!! It will be very interesting to see how she is when she is an old lady Good luck with your search for a pup Mas, having broken both my dogs, Im a bit reluctant to get a third :cheer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I will only start looking at the end of the year. I broke my ridgies, bkth were very anxious dogs and i think a lot of the one's aggression was fear aggression. So far the only animals i have been successful with was my horse who was starved and abused before i got him and mason has been a pleasure to raise and train took me 4 years to get the horse to trust me tho lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emery Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Typing this with tears in my eyes. zeus wouldn't even get up for a malteser and he was unable to get up just now to go to toilet and he wet himself. I am thinking i am not getting good news tomorrow and wondering if it would be too cruel to keep him alive to tues night when hubby gets home (zeus was brought by me for him as a birthday gift 6 years ago) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Typing this with tears in my eyes. zeus wouldn't even get up for a malteser and he was unable to get up just now to go to toilet and he wet himself. I am thinking i am not getting good news tomorrow and wondering if it would be too cruel to keep him alive to tues night when hubby gets home (zeus was brought by me for him as a birthday gift 6 years ago) Hugs Emery - he may just be having a bad day tho ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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