Tail Above Spine Or Below?

[corvus]

Just curious. When you train with your dog, is their tail up above their spine or hanging below?

[huski]

Daisy always carries her tail up, and it wags the whole time (sometimes even in stays) :rolleyes:

[brigie bear]

lilie and ruby always hold their tails up high... ruby lets hers out when relaxing lol but when training they both have it up... frankie usually has his in a relaxed position and it remains the same when training also...

[megan_]

up and wagging

[Janba]

I think it really depends on the breed of dog and what there natural tail carriage is. My dalmatian carries hers above but arched out behind and usually wagging which is her normal tail carriage. The border collies carry them low unless really excited then the black and white one arches his over his spine and the tri raises it but not as high.

[Cosmolo]

One carries it quite low and has naturally low tail carriage. She is a relaxed dog and doesn't wag her tail near as much as the other dogs normally- regardless of whether we're training or not. One is level with her spine and two are higher and wagging.

[corvus]

A trainer told me today that Erik's tail was up when we were training because he thought he was in control and dominant and was only working because he thought he could get something out of it. I was like, er, yeah.... why else would he work? I love that Erik's tail is always up and wagging. When it stops wagging I know it's getting hard for him. His tail is nearly always up, though. It's either right up high or right down low. It doesn't seem to go in between anywhere.

Kivi's is low when training, but he often holds it low when interacting with us. The same trainer thought that it was also a sign of his dominance that he was uncurling his tail and holding it low when other dogs were raising theirs. Like a "no need to get aroused" kind of sign, and an indication that he was confident enough that he didn't feel a need to throw his weight around at all. She said sometimes the laid back dogs were the most dominant.

Anyway, I think she was probably right, but not convinced that Erik's tail would go down if he were less full of himself. She was taking other things into account as well, and pointed out how another dog's tail lowered when her owner took her aside to do some heel work with her. I kind of thought it was more like her arousal level lowered than her sense of dominance. I guess it's just semantics.

[huski]

A trainer told me today that Erik's tail was up when we were training because he thought he was in control and dominant and was only working because he thought he could get something out of it. I was like, er, yeah.... why else would he work? I love that Erik's tail is always up and wagging. When it stops wagging I know it's getting hard for him. His tail is nearly always up, though. It's either right up high or right down low. It doesn't seem to go in between anywhere.

Kivi's is low when training, but he often holds it low when interacting with us. The same trainer thought that it was also a sign of his dominance that he was uncurling his tail and holding it low when other dogs were raising theirs. Like a "no need to get aroused" kind of sign, and an indication that he was confident enough that he didn't feel a need to throw his weight around at all. She said sometimes the laid back dogs were the most dominant.

Anyway, I think she was probably right, but not convinced that Erik's tail would go down if he were less full of himself. She was taking other things into account as well, and pointed out how another dog's tail lowered when her owner took her aside to do some heel work with her. I kind of thought it was more like her arousal level lowered than her sense of dominance. I guess it's just semantics.

TBH that sounds silly. Sure, a dog having their tail up can show they're confident but dominant? Pfffft. Daisy holds her tail up and wags it all the time, when we are walking down the street, when we are training, she loves it and pretty much only holds her tail down when she's had a fright.

ETA: She holds it up high when she's scenting too - even when she's off by herself. Does that mean she's being "dominant" to the scent?? :rolleyes:

Edited November 15, 2009 by huski

[corvus]

Like I said, I call it arousal. :rolleyes:

[huski]

Like I said, I call it arousal. :rolleyes:

Sorry Corvus I should have been clearer - wasn't responding to your post just the trainer's statement that it was about dominance.

[luvsablue]

When she's doing a seekback her tail is up high, when she's heeling her tail is 3/4 up, but just before we do a turn it goes right up and sort of cracks like a whip. I know because I've seen her on video.

Luvsablue

[Tiggy]

Banjo has a kinked tail so I'll have to check his next time we train :rolleyes: .

[W Sibs]

She said sometimes the laid back dogs were the most dominant

really? first time I heard of this. Most dominant dogs I know are high energy kind of dogs.

Charlie is very mellow kind of fella and also laid back.

His tail is low of the time in training. When we have to stand and listen to the instructor, he is known once or twice to lay down and fall asleep in class :rolleyes:

[jaybeece]

Down when he's bored or just trundling along doing his thing.

Up and wagging when he's enjoying it, engaged and in a good mental state.

Up and stiff when he's alert, a bit anxious or thinking about flipping out over another dog.

The second one is the only one I like and the only one that shows he's really getting something out of training, thankfully I'm seeing more and more of it each week.

Edited November 15, 2009 by jaybeece

[Seita]

Curled right up over her back and wagging! I had to actually train her to carry it down for showing because she would get too excited and carry up it. When she is relaxed it's down though.

[OSoSwift]

Umm normal Whippet way - down, but I have never seen them that high and I don't think it would actually be anatomically possible for them anyway????

[Diablo]

Here's our boy jump training, tail hangs down

Edited November 15, 2009 by Diablo

[helen]

He is a Swedish Vallhund isn't he? This is from the Sweedish Vallhund standard

Tail - Docked: Length not exceeding 10cms (4 ins) when adult. Set on as a continuation of croup line. May be raised at attention.

Undocked: May be born tailless. Any length. Natural carriage. http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=153

It is feasible he is holding his tail up because he is attentive, which is a good thing if you are training

Finnish Lapphund standardard - Tail Set rather high, medium in length, covered with profuse and long hair. The tip of the tail may have a J-formed hook. In movement the tail in curved over the back or side; at rest it may hang down. http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=142 - in my limited experience with Lapphunds they are pretty relaxed when you pat them which may explain why the tail is down.

ETA just read your post again. Trainer says Erik is dominant as he has his tail up and your other dog is dominant because he has his tail down, does trainer thinks all dogs are dominant?

Edited November 15, 2009 by helen

[MonElite]

My puppy dobe - tail high up wagging, she often jumps up during training

[corvus]

ETA just read your post again. Trainer says Erik is dominant as he has his tail up and your other dog is dominant because he has his tail down, does trainer thinks all dogs are dominant?

I know! I could see what she was saying, but she wasn't real clear about it. This was at a playgroup session and Erik was doing a lot of running around barking at other dogs. She was saying that he does that because he wants to control them, which I agree with. I don't quite agree that doing that is a dominant behaviour. I think it's more of a wannabe dominant behaviour, and I think that's what she was getting at with Kivi. Kivi is a pretty confident dog, but he's not an alpha wannabe by any stretch. He is well socialised, but also very social by nature, so when tails come up in dogs that are trying to be controlling towards him, his tail goes down and they stop. But his tail comes up when dogs are trying to control other dogs nearby. She said if he was a little bit more pushy, she wouldn't need another trainer at playgroup sessions with him around. Kivi uses a lot of submissive and calming signals with other dogs, but he's very confident about it. The way I see it, he is not reacting to feeling insecure like Erik is when Erik acts submissively, but rather he's deliberately acting submissively to ease social tension.

I can kinda sympathise with her because I think she was interpreting it correctly, just not explaining that very well. I'm pretty shite at explaining why I interpret things the way I do as well. Erik would like to be the boss of everyone, I guess because he's OVER-confident and his nature is to look for ways he can affect what happens to him. I kinda like that spunk, and it makes him very enthused about free-shaping because he came to me at 10 weeks already trying to figure out how everything works and how he could swing it his way. Kivi just lets life happen to him.