Puppy Biting Kids Feet

[joo]

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and new to being a puppy owner. I am seeking some advice on how to stop Harley, my 10 week old, male boxer x lab from grabbing at and biting my kids ankles whenver they go outside. I have tried to get them to stand still and ignore him but the kids are scared and so react by lifting there feet up and down in a bid to get away. This only makes things worse! Things we have tried: saying 'NO' in a firm voice, yelping like a dog, shaking a tin with rocks in it and placing a chew toy in front of his face. This agitates him even more and he will not let go, especially if he has a mouth full of sock! He does this occaisionally with my husband and I, but stops as soon as we growl. My kids are 9 and 10 and have never provoked or hurt him. I don't know if it is a coincidence or not, but Harley seems to have got attitude since commencing puppy classes last week!

Any suggestions????

[persephone]

Hi-

have a read here... CLICK HERE

here.. CLICK HERE

and..

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This will give you some insight into what's happening

[joo]

Thanks for those links, I had a look and learnt a few things. The kids have just come home from school and were playing nicely with Harley, he even rolled on his back for extra rubs, then all of a sudden the pirhana teeth came out and he started going for their feet and t-shirts! We used a chew toy to distract him and we all went inside.

He is not normally aggressive, we can take his food bowl away mid meal and he doesn't bat an eyelid, he doesn't bark or growl at strangers and is generally a pretty easy going pup. I'm just worried about the 'out of the blue' attacks.

[persephone]

he's just playing, as puppies do with each other However, the kids and he will have to learn some rules...

[Cosmolo]

He is not being aggressive even though it seems that way- he is just getting more and more aroused until he can't control himself anymore- puppies are not great at showing self control. First thing i would do is set him up on lead when he is interacting with the kids- as soon as he starts to use his mouth on them, you can use the lead to control or correct him and them stop and settle him before allowing further play. Don't forget high value rewards from you and the children for playing appropriately.

Pups go though many different phases in the first 6 months and rule number one is to ensure you don't allow things to continue, hoping he will grow out of it- it doesn't happen for many dogs!

What did your puppy school teacher say about the mouthing? I would not provide a toy immediately as this can be a reward for a pup. once you have corrected, calmed and settled, you can then provide a toy for him to chew so that he can use his mouth- just not on people!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Can you smear a bit of tabasco sauce on your kids' pants?

[dancinbcs]

I never let puppies grab feet or legs for fear that they will trip someone and end up getting stepped on. As soon as they start grabbing feet or shoes at about 4 or 5 weeks I put a stop to it. If they latch on I grab them by the scruff, give one little shake then hold them still while giving a big growl. This is exactly what the adult dogs do if a puppy grabs them so they understand. It usually only take a few times before they learn that it is unacceptable behaviour.

It is really important to immediately follow up with a happy praising voice as soon as they let go. They pick up very quickly that a growl means "stop whatever you are doing" and a happy voice means " everything is wonderful". Being consistent is also very important. they must always be corrected when it happens and always be praised for doing the right thing.

You can also offer a suitable toy as a substitute for human feet and legs and make sure you praise when they make the right choice.

[Nekhbet]

it's prey drive. You have a dog oozing with it.

have him on a lead, or you have to be there to stop him. Whe he goes for the kids teach then to stop and say 'NO' facing him then you straight away get the dog and time out. Do NOT time out where he can see the children playing - what you then build is frustration which in turn builds prey drive (think of it as someone waving your favourite food in front of you but not letting you have it when you're kind of hungry ... when you finally get it you wolf it down, prey drive works the same way)

Boxers are a guarding/mastiff breed, labs are retrievers. What he wants is to incite you to tug. The best way to extinguish prey drive is to 1) ignore it and 2) correct it to suppress it. Do not try 2 without a professional trainer. What you need to do is redirect his energy and brain, yet understand you also wil have a dog that NEEDS brain exercise before physical exercise. You will need to play, train, tricks etc in order to keep him happy

if you need more help email me or I can come out for a visit with my mastiff and teach both dog and family how to live together happily

[Seven]

Our lab pup does this and with time out etc he learnt very quickly. Yet still makes a few mistakes and so far a good solid "No" has worked.

Funny thing is when you think it wont stop all of a sudden it does, if that makes sense.

[luvsdogs]

Good advice all around. The only thing with one of your responses was that you take his food bowl away. I would not do this. The best thing to do is stay with him while he eats, & add some tasty treats to the bowl at least 3-4 times a week. Food is the necessity of life & he shouldn't be put in a situation that he feels he needs to guard it.

Get all family members to do this, the children with supervision. He will soon realise that someone watching me eat means something good will happen. Also a good idea to teach him to wait while you put the food bowl down & give him a release word giving permission to eat.

[joo]

Thanks to everyone for their advice! I was a bit taken a back when the woman running puppy class told me "you have one aggressive dog on your hands". After reading all about prey drive, I believe that is exactly what my Harley has! Now, I must learn all about dealing with this!

[Cosmolo]

Thats a highly unusual comment to make. I would suggest that if your pup does have high prey drive, you learn to use it to your advantage now- it can make one hell of a difference to the things you want to teach/ train later on.

And if the puppy school instructor does not have an understanding of such drive- you really should look at finding another puppy school, sooner rather than later IMO

[joo]

Thats a highly unusual comment to make. I would suggest that if your pup does have high prey drive, you learn to use it to your advantage now- it can make one hell of a difference to the things you want to teach/ train later on.

And if the puppy school instructor does not have an understanding of such drive- you really should look at finding another puppy school, sooner rather than later IMO

Hi Cosmolo,

how do i go about using prey drive to my advantage? And, yes, I have swapped puppy schools!

[Cosmolo]

It really depends as you need to do some supression first to stop the mouthing/ nipping and then start to utilise it in training as a reward. if your new instructor understands drive, ask them and they should be able to demonstrate it to you.

[Nekhbet]

http://leerburg.com/ebooks/puppygroundwork.pdf

this is a start, his website is worth navigating through.

http://leerburg.com/pdf/drivesofprotectiontraining.pdf

this article although for protection, will help you understand what prey drive is in your dog. It is not aggression, toss the idiot that is teaching your puppy school. I am starting to see a large number of people who are supposedly 'qualified' (maybe on their own planet) teaching some rather disturbing things. If she thinks a prey drive puppy is 'aggressive' then she should not be going near another dog as that is a BASIC concept. anyhoo ...

For the biting of people I still do the thumb under the tongue. Quick, effective and gets through to the dog. It's not a trick to not bite it's a fundamental concept the dog should learn the day it comes home. No dog that walks through my door mouths me past the first day, EVER. They learn quickly, efficiently and we have a mutual understanding from day dot as to my expectations and rules. Happy families after that

With prey drive there are a couple of things - you can use it through toys and by that you take 'special' toys that only come out when you want to play. You tease the dog with it, get focus and use it as a reward. Tugs on a string are an idea, or at that age I take a tea towel, roll it up into a tight tube and use thick rubber bands to hold it together (one at each end and one in the middle) then tie a string to one end so you can't loose it. Also make two of them.

etc when you want the puppy to come to you, wave the toy and excitedly 'COME COME COME ON YAAAAAAAAY' and as soon as the dog gets to you throw the toy in front of the pup, it will focus, grab and try to run off. Play a little game of tug of war then offer up the other toy and say 'OUT' or 'LEAVE'. The pup will grab the other toy and you play a little tug then offer up the other again and same thing 'OUT/LEAVE' whatever.

Soon your dog will be focussing on the toy. Excellent! And it will be started on an out command which will be a precursor to shutting down prey drive so what you now do is when you say 'OUT' add a sit command in between. As soon as the dog settles into a sit 'YAAAAAAAAAAY GOOD DOG' and wave the toy about in its face to grab it.

My dogs have also learned not to grab until I say they can or until something is thrown - so no nipped fingers in this household. Something simple like 'GRAB IT' 'GET IT' etc, just a precursor to the dog taking the prey toy will start conditioning it that it doesnt just jump at something to get satisfaction, it has to perform to get its prey drive fulfilled.

You DONT reward nutty behavior. You reward as soon as the dog is calm and focussed. The stare is part of prey drive, hence why many people use it to get good focus. If the dog is bouncing, it is not concentrating so stand up and ignore it. When it shows signs of wanting to engage then start again. Short bits here and there for training not big long periods as most average pet pups dont have the attention span for it. Also prey work wears out the dogs mind, you will find the dog tires faster then just for average running about.

I should make a youtube video of my Malinois as a puppy and as an adult.