Meeche Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Our 13 week old puppy is just not getting the toilet training thing! We initially had her in a pen that had just her bed and water so essentially a crate without a roof. We would just wee in her bed every night. The people at puppy school told us that dogs won't wee or poo in their bedding - well, ours did and didn't care too hoots! SO, she started to jump out of the pen a few weeks ago and just wee and poo in the kitchen (where we had the pen) aswell as her bed. THEN we rearranged things and moved her bed into the laundry (which is a smaller space) and decided that we would rather clean up wee on newspaper than in her bed as she doesn't seem to wee in the bed very often if she has the ability to get out. NOW DH is tired of cleaning it all up as last night she did 3 poos and walked all in it etc etc... gross gross gross. She goes outside when we tell her 95% of the time. Is rewarded with treats and doesn't really get into trouble if she has an accident inside (which happens every couple of days but only if we haven't taken her out - although the door is open). We are at wits end. Thinking of getting a crate and then just having a towel in it and cleaning that up.Thinking of making an effort during the day to leave her in the crate for longer periods each time to try and train her bladder??? Any advice would be appreciated! OH, and she is a labrador pup. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caesars mum Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 to answer your first question, it is never too late to crate train a puppy and it is really good for the pup to crate train them. but i think you may be doing it for all the wrong reasons. you may need to have a look at further toilet training for your pup. take it out last thing before bed and make sure they go don't give them any food just before bed. yelling at and punishing a puppy for having an accident wont work as well as rewarding the pup for doing the right thing I'm sure there is a thread on here on toilet training for puppies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) No, it's not too late but crate training is not going to work unless you provide regular access to your preferred toileting spot. That includes during the night. she doesn't seem to wee in the bed very often if she has the ability to get out. If she's jumping out of her pen to go elsewhere then she's trying not to to soil her bedding. If she's having to jump out, you aren't taking her out often enough. You have to make sure she's always supervised inside unless she's crated and that she's taken outside regularly when she is. Few pups will make it through the night at her age without a toilet stop. I'm sorry to say it but it's not the puppy's responsiblity to "get it' at her age but your responsibility to make sure she cannot fail. Leaving her in the crate for longer will train her to soil it, not hold her bladder. She's a baby. Every accident she has is your fault, not hers. Edited November 12, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 If they are going to the toilet in their beds and on the floor that many times during a night, clearly the pup is not being taken outside to the toilet enough. When you are toilet training a puppy it will mean getting up during the night, sometimes two or three times a night and taking them out. It's the only way they learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joanne76 Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Yep I agree with everything the others have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlc Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hi, Have you ruled out the possibility of a UTI?? Probly a long shot but just a thought. I have 4 dogs and 3 of them were fully toilet trained by about 5 months but my first girl she was a shocker I had to literally take her out to wee every 10 minutes or there would be an accident and I dont think with her it was that she couldnt hold it, she just didnt have any idea what was appropriate, the other 3 picked up strait away that outside was good but Lacy just didnt get it, we later found out she had not been even remotley taught anything where she came from was kept in a pen and never had a toileting area and a designated sleeping area and I really do believe this contributed to her problems. Anyway 9 months later I could say she was toilet trained but even now not with accidents in the house but if we are out and about and she decides she needs to go she just does. Like doing number 2's in the middle of bridge road Richmond so embarasssing but what can you do at least we have no accidents in the house and once she got it, she got it and it was only from perserverance on my part. My youngest has a crate but only for sleeping. I am not a fan of crates for toilet training, i think you have to put in the hard yards to teach them the right thing and if that means in and out a lot then so be it. 13 weeks is still only very much a puppy and early days. I just read back your post you said she goes outside 95% of the time when you tell her. I think you have to make her go out, dont have it on her terms and go with her and make sure she goes, my girl even now she will go out but doesn't always go I have to make sure she has been before she comes back inside otherwise she will hang on for hours and hours which I dont think can be a good thing. Anyway good luck, time and patience will help your pup along and remember it doesnt happen over night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~*Shell*~ Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 I crate and toilet trained my dog when he was 2.5 years old - he was a rescue and hadn't had to hold it in before. I agree with what others have said. It sounds like she's not being taken out enough. If it was me, I would be taking her out every couple of hours, even during the night. If she had been given the opportunity to poo 3 times before you can take her out, you've had hours and hours between toilet breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Take her out when she wakes, after playing, eating or when she looks sniffy. Take her out some more when you can. Reward all eliminations outside. Ignore all the others.. unless you want to punish yourself or OH for failing to get her outside on time. You've got a smart breed and they want to please. I would buy a crate and move it to beside your bed at night. The minute you hear her stir, get up and take her out. Praise her if she goes, pop her back in the crate and go back to sleep. You and the OH can debate on which side of the bed the crate goes and who gets up but someone has to. Two weeks of sleep deprivation and total supervision will see most pups well on the way to being successfully toilet trained. The rule of thumb is that every accident inside will encourage about 5 more. You've got a month of bad toileting habits to undo now. That's not her fault either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Here is a link to a free e-book with some excellent tips on toilet training. Its called Before you get your puppy. It isn't just about 'before' you have your puppy so its an excellent read. I followed this books tips for toilet training and in 3 weeks my girls was totally reliable. But if you are not consistent and really really vigilant in taking them outside to wee then they are going to go in the house because they simply can't hold on any longer. When she has an accident in the house get a rolled up newspaper and hit yourself in the head with it. It's your fault for not taking her out earlier. I started taking my puppy out 3x a night when she woke up (she was in a crate next to my bed) so I was a bit sleep deprived for a while but SO SO SO worth it when she was fully house trained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeche Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Thanks for the advise. We never thought to get up during the night to take her out cause the trainer at Puppy school told us that if you get up to a dog at 4am then they will develop the habit of wanting to go at 4am?! We have been doing everything we have been told by the people in the know we have asked so that is why we posted on here as I know you all have your own experience! :-) I do take her out myself regularly, every couple of hours and she goes, gets a reward and lots and lots of praise. It is just night time that is the problem. She is an inside dog when we are home but is free to go outside when she wants if we are home. If we leave the house she goes outside. Will have a look at those suggested websites... In regards to crate training. I thought that was how you taught toilet training? Am I confused? Must be! What other reason would the dog need to be in the crate for? Honest question.. we have never used a crate in my family, the dog has always had a bed inside and been left outside when we leave the house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the advise. We never thought to get up during the night to take her out cause the trainer at Puppy school told us that if you get up to a dog at 4am then they will develop the habit of wanting to go at 4am?! We have been doing everything we have been told by the people in the know we have asked so that is why we posted on here as I know you all have your own experience! :-) *coughs* Bullshit! Any trainer worth their salt knows that a baby puppy lacks the control to go without toileting through the night initially. All not getting up teaches the dog to do is to eliminate inside. And hasn't she learned it well. Some trainers need a good smack up the back of the head. That advice has set you back a month. Find another trainer Meeche.. one that knows a thing or two about dogs. Edited November 13, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 (edited) Meeche: In regards to crate training. I thought that was how you taught toilet training? Am I confused? Must be! What other reason would the dog need to be in the crate for? Honest question.. we have never used a crate in my family, the dog has always had a bed inside and been left outside when we leave the house... There are many reasons why you might choose to train your dog to accept a crate as a safe place of confinement: * To keep her safe and secure at any number of dog training or competition events * To teach self control and a quiet time when you need that from her * To provide a safe feeding place beyond the interference of other dogs or of children who don't understand the dog shouldn't be disturbed while eating. * To build drive, teach a wait and for training. * To have a place you can put her when non-dog friendly, frail or very young folk visit your house * To keep her safe from prying fingers or rough handling from youngster * To transport her, camp with her or have her inside at places that won't tolerate dogs otherwise * So that she won't fret if her activities need to be restricted for health reasons And most importantly, so that you can use the top of the crate as a coffee table in your lounge room. A covered crate is like a den if you train your dog to use it. In many homes the crate doors stay open and the dog rests there by choice. Edited November 13, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hi Meeche and welcome. Others have already given good advice but I just wanted to add that you may want to take a read of this article here: Errorless Housetraining And while you are there check out the rest of the "training textbook" because in general it has LOTS of good advice and has helped me out heaps. Oh, and please come and join us in the Labrador thread! Pics are compulsory! Labrador Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil_toe Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 My corgi puppy was brought outside for toileting almost every hour for the first 6-7 weeks. It might be difficult if you have to work, I was lucky to have a housemate who is home most days (studying) and is more than happy to babysit and take him out for toileting. During that time, despite being constantly taken out, he did occasionally have accidents. There was an isolated incident whereby he was squatting trying to poo on his bedding in his crate! I then blocked off 1/3 of the crate (don't worry it was a huge crate, so he still has ample space to stretch!) as I was told that the crate might have a bit too much space hence allowing him to have a separate toilet and sleeping quarter...and then voila! No more toileting in the crate! My point in this is that I reckon just having a pen might mean that your pup will have a bit too much space, and she may not know better to not toilet in the excess space or maybe she genuinely needed to go. With my pup, he was usually left in the pen where his crate is when no one is home. By taking him out very often, he soon got the idea to not wee/poo inside. He is 6 months now, and haven't had an accident in about 2 months. It was a lot of hardwork getting him where he is now, such as getting up everynight at 2.30am to let him out, but it is all worth it because he's doing so well now. But i agree with the others, once they start doing their business in the house, it'll reinforce the fact that it is okay to toilet inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Is pup outside overnight an option? I did this with dog no.2 who was a summer pup. However, he had our other dog for company. No howling/ crying/ barking issues. Never too late to crate train! Puppy toilet training is a PITA, but is only a very short time in retrospect. YOU have to be really dedicated. When you go outside make sure they do something (wee, poo). Reward+++. Walking around outside with them can help them to go. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsBex Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 And most importantly, so that you can use the top of the crate as a coffee table in your lounge room. :p Never thought of that option! Knew there must be a way to make this ugly crate useful!! Good luck Meeche! It really is such a confusing time, and it seems the more you learn, the more questions you have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrs tornsocks Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 *coughs* Bullshit! :p Any trainer worth their salt knows that a baby puppy lacks the control to go without toileting through the night initially. All not getting up teaches the dog to do is to eliminate inside. And hasn't she learned it well. Some trainers need a good smack up the back of the head. That advice has set you back a month. Find another trainer Meeche.. one that knows a thing or two about dogs. ;) Too right. We set the alarm for twice a nite for about the first two weeks, then once a night, for maybe two more weeks. All pups are different in terms of how long they take to toilet train .... but ALL pups have small bladders that need to be emptied more regularly than dogs. Just like babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 I am so glad my dogs are "outside" at night (by this I mean they have thier own room with a door that opens to an outdoors run). With Toby we found it wasn't till about 16 weeks that he could hold in his bladder. After that we would still take him outside every couple of hours but now he just lets us know if he needs to go out, It had been over 1 year since our last accident... ( Why am I getting another puppy? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 *coughs* Bullshit! :D :D :D Any trainer worth their salt knows that a baby puppy lacks the control to go without toileting through the night initially. All not getting up teaches the dog to do is to eliminate inside. And hasn't she learned it well. Some trainers need a good smack up the back of the head. That advice has set you back a month. :D Find another trainer Meeche.. one that knows a thing or two about dogs. Too right. We set the alarm for twice a nite for about the first two weeks, then once a night, for maybe two more weeks. All pups are different in terms of how long they take to toilet train .... but ALL pups have small bladders that need to be emptied more regularly than dogs. Just like babies. :D That's funny - Crate training Rusti took around 2-3weeks to get him used to it correctly. By the first week he was letting us know when he needed to go and we were getting up 2-3 times a night. But by the end of week 2 roughly it went to all night. Had a few accidents in week 2-3, but that was my mistake I think re not taking water out etc and maybe feeding times not the same. Now 4-5 weeks on he holds on til he is taken out pretty well all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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