Jetty Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 So I took Jet to the groomers last week. The heat over the past few weeks had him struggling so I though this would make him a bit cooler having a bit of a shave and it is making him better. When we first walked in he was hiding behind me and acting quiet scared. I assumed it was because he thought it was the vet. I left for about two hours and returned and they were having trouble keeping him still so I went to hold him while he was being shaved. He was very afraid and kept attempting to get away. He has had a bad experience in the past at a vet who I refuse to use now after finding another vet who didn't make Jet agressive towards them. This first vet gave him his first vaccinations and one time Jet bleed. The lady at the groomers suggested to get out the clippers at home and just show him and turn on the vibration and place the vibration on his back while rewarding him. Is this the right method to do? Is there anything else I can do? Also when she went to clip his nails he would attempt to nip her. I again think this is from a situation in the past where Jet had injured his leg? I went home and started touching his feet and massaging them as I heard this helps, he tried to nip me! This is the only time he has ever tried that. So I sat down and watched Cesar Millian on Foxtel the other day. He was with a girl whose dog would bite her when the dog was being brushed. He solved it by when the dog was agressive he would do a claw like hand on the side of her and would say "uh uh". Should I used this method when he tried to nip? Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Sounds like he was majorily stressed by the whole thing and when you got home with him he was stil stressed hense the nip. My boy shows aniexty to different things, I introduce him very slowly i.e. turn the clippers on and treat from a distance for calm behaviour and then over the course of a few days or more throw treats near the table the clipper in on. Once that stage is done then pop the dog on the table whilst the clipper is on etc. Just baby steps and reward for good behaviour. There was a technique that we used in puppy school and that was teaching a pup to "Feet" the action of putting their 2 front feet on an item like a stable box etc, then with one hand you treat the dog, with the 2nd hand you brush the dog to create a positive assocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 It wasn't straight after when we came home though and I tried again last night I will try to gradually introduce the clippers thanks. With the "feet" command. Do you just pull his feet onto the object and give him food? I was trying to teach him to shake and I had treats he didn't care for the treats he was trying to nip me again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) It wasn't straight after when we came home though and I tried again last night I will try to gradually introduce the clippers thanks. With the "feet" command. Do you just pull his feet onto the object and give him food? I was trying to teach him to shake and I had treats he didn't care for the treats he was trying to nip me again! We say "Feet" and entice them to put their front feet on the object with a lure treat. You can have a hotdog or something that you can keep in that hand and they can nuzzle at. Is he a nippy dog in general i.e. when he gets over excited or frustrated? He may have a sore leg or he have learned a negative association, perhaps have a vet look him over. Edited November 10, 2009 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Oh ok. No this is the only time he tries to nip me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Jet is a 9 month old collie? He won't need clipping, this can ruin the coat and make it grow back thicker in the long term. What did you do when he tried to nip you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmoo Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 You want him to experience grooming a positive light. Ditch the Cesar Millian techniques, he might only get worse. This kind of thing takes time and trust. Stick with the one groomer who knows what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 JJ, you need to accustom Jet to being handled and groomed, every day, AT HOME. If he'd been going to the groomers since he was a bub, this would be old hat to him. As it was, he was stressed and my guess is pushed into defending himself in the situation. Now its up to you do get him used to being brushed and having his nails clipped. Muzzle him if necessary. Spend 5 minutes every day with a slicker and do one nail a day. Reward heavily. Properly groomed out (all loose hair removed) he should not need clipping. You'll wreck his coat and expose him to the risk of sunburn by clipping it off. Lots of handling and lots of rewards is the way to go. He doesn't need to be bullied into it.. show him that tolerance from him brings rewards from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Yep- if this is fear related- you need to go slow.... make every SHORT experience a positive one. I second the muzzle idea- that way you can act confidently- knowing you will not get bitten, and he knows that he is under restraint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Do a search on YouTube for Kikopup. She has a video showing you how to teach your dog to accept having their nails cut. I'm finding my dogs are picking it up quite fast, although they didn't mind that much to begin with. Erik very cutely smacks his paw into my hand and holds it there, staring at me and waiting for me to click him. Erik needs to learn that not every training session requires such enthusiasm! I think I'm going to use a less exciting reward to see if I can tone him down a bit for this one. Kikopup has loads of good videos that are very helpful. If you decide to use a muzzle, it's important to condition THAT to be a good thing before you even start on anything else. Otherwise you'll just be making it harder for yourself. Incidentally, I have a full-coated dog and I wouldn't dream of shaving him. Their fur acts as insulation for them. If you want to give him a way to cool down, get a little paddle pool he can put his feet in. Dogs lose heat mostly through their feet. Kivi can trot around on the shores of the river for ages when it's warm if he trots in the shallows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 He is a fox terrier cross. Alot of people think it is either collie or corgi or maybe both that he is crossed with. He already had a shell pool yet he was still getting hot. He doesn't even physically nip me and It seems like he is not actually going to. I think he uses it as a warning. I did not know that shaving him would be a bad thing. It isn't that short that he will get sunburnt. I would prefer not to use a muzzle. I do give him a brush as often as I can. I will try to do it more often and also to touch his feet and show him the clippers etc. I will have a look into that kikopup too thanks. Picture of his cut below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 touch his feet Ok- so you prefer to use no muzzle. you MUST NOT flinch, pull back or let go of his foot if/when he wriggles or snaps- and this is hard to do if you think he may nip if you let go of his foot when he moves- HE has won...and it will be harder next time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 It sure helps if you don't flinch, but it's not the end of the world if you do. It just means it will probably take longer to overcome. The aim of the game is to not provoke him to snap or nip or even pull his foot away at all. The point of desensitisation is to gradually increase his tolerance WITHOUT triggering a negative response from him. Every time you do it hurts the work you've done with him, whether you flinch or not. If you touch his paws without him pulling them away, give yourself ten points. If he pulls his foot away deduct a hundred points. If he snaps or tries to nip, deduct 500 points. Every time you accumulate 100 points, give yourself a piece of chocolate. If you don't even have to touch his paw to get him to pull it away, reward him for hovering your hand over it until you accumulate 100 points and then try touching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 10, 2009 Author Share Posted November 10, 2009 Ok thanks for the advice. I will give it a go tonight. I won't forget to treat myself with chocolate Should I have treats for him too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Should I have treats for him too? Oh yes. He gets one every time. Some people say you shouldn't reward when they pull their feet away or growl, but it kind of depends on what you are doing. My dogs are quite okay with having their feet touched, so I don't reward them if they pull away because I'm trying to teach them to hold still for me. But that's not quite the same thing as early desensitisation where your aim is not so much to teach them a behaviour, but to change their emotional response to something. It's a classical conditioning thing rather than an operant conditioning thing. You would still aim to stay in his comfort zone so that he wouldn't pull away, but if you make a mistake and push him too far you can still give him a treat and be on track for a dog that is relaxed about being touched. You're not trying to teach him to hold still and accept a touch at this stage, just pairing touches with treats so that a touch comes to predict good things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Okay thanks You make it sound alot eaiser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Don't forget- a treat for him- a chocolate for you............ two full and happy participants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetty Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Don't forget- a treat for him- a chocolate for you............two full and happy participants I will not forget He is such a joyful thing and smart so hopefully he will learn in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now