Exercise Before Obedience Class This Morning?

[Kavik]

Manly and Districts is out that way

http://www.northernbeachesdogtraining.com.au/index.htm

Not sure who else though

[OSoSwift]

Yep I would probably not go again either!

I find nice warm roast chicken works quite well - that is the bi guns I pull out when there are major distractions!

Rommi doesn't care for chunkers anymore - little bugger!

I wonder how many dogs will need Chiro after all the yanking on halti's!

If you keep going, do your own thing - but I would consider trying to find a new club

[huski]

That's appalling. I would run a mile from this place :D

There are plenty of obedience clubs in Sydney and I'm sure DOLers can recommend some reputable ones.

It just sux...I had to pay upfront too. I will probably try going there next week again, ignore the advice that is crap and to see if the trainer is game enough to demonstrate with the more challenging dogs like Tilly. Walking two lengths of the park trying to get a dog to heel with treats isn't going to work for a dog like Tilly, who REALLY pulls on the lead.

Yeah it's a pain but you have to consider if what you saw is really how you want them to train your dog. If she's that bad I'd book her in to see Steve from K9 Force, he'd stop her pulling on the leash within minutes I bet ;)

My worry would be the fact that the trainer at this place clearly has no idea how to use the tool they are pushing on to everyone, and is actually hurting the dogs he is handling. Do I want him to do that to my dog? would be the question I'd ask myself.

Thanks, I bought a couple of other types of treats at the supermarket...chicken liver treats and that new schmacko popcorn. Tilly went nuts for the schmacko popcorn when I practicing the 'stay' command at home, so i'll try them next time around.

My dogs will work for a piece of lettuce at home, but when we are out in a distracting environment they need something really high value I use soft and smelly things like cooked sausage. Is she prey/toy driven at all?

[sandra64]

last time i went to obedience class, with a kelpie, he was 4 months old and in our beginner group i had about 6 small breed dogs that just barked the whole time, they said the first class would be just under an hr but he had all these beginner dogs out there 4 over and hr and a half. i ended up walking away as the yapping was doing my head in. That went on every week. I so much wanted to learn more but threw it in after those 6weeks.These clubs mean well, but you cant concentrate yourself in that environment.As i found out nothing had changed since i went 20 odd years ago.

[Tiggy]

Most clubs cater for 'pet' owners who usually do a beginners course and that's it. If you hang in there the classes will get smaller and smaller :D . I'm not even training at my club anymore until I'm ready to trial so I can go straight into their trial class because the lower classes can be really frustrating ;) .

[Aidan]

Yucky.

There are a lot of ways to teach loose leash walking. Pick one that you like and stick to it like you would stick to a plan to quit smoking cold turkey.

I never let a tight leash get the dog anywhere, and I keep the clicker ticking over like a ratchet in the early stages. It gets faded surprisingly quickly once you start raising the criteria (taking more steps between reinforcements).

[leopuppy04]

the club sounds awful . What a shame about your experience. I do believe in using devices for dogs that REALLY pull, but the halti would not be one I would recommend (constant strain on the neck = not good) unless the person was experienced and under constant supervision .

As for exercising before club - I was told to do that when Leo was a bub... turned into one of the WORST training sessions ever as the walk only warmed up his muscles and he was MORE hypo than ever . So no, I don't exercise before hand. Now, I love them absolutely bursting with energy as it's great to harness that drive and make them great to work with.

I totally agree with Laffi and Huski. As they said - you can get better advice and help from the trainer when your dog is a bit 'enthusiastic' shall we say

[Staff'n'Toller]

Yucky.

There are a lot of ways to teach loose leash walking. Pick one that you like and stick to it like you would stick to a plan to quit smoking cold turkey.

I never let a tight leash get the dog anywhere, and I keep the clicker ticking over like a ratchet in the early stages. It gets faded surprisingly quickly once you start raising the criteria (taking more steps between reinforcements).

Would love to see a bit of you tube footage of that Aidan.

[PAX]

Thanks, I bought a couple of other types of treats at the supermarket...chicken liver treats and that new schmacko popcorn. Tilly went nuts for the schmacko popcorn when I practicing the 'stay' command at home, so i'll try them next time around.

Have really yummy treats, you are going to need treats or toys that are more interesting than all the other dogs and new place. I would even go as far to say give her a very small dinner the night before so you know she will be really hungry, if food is her highest reward. Public trainig is like asking kids to do homework at Dreamworld, needs to be very rewarding of it's not going to happen.

Often treats or toys that they love at home with no distractions just dont cut it when they are out.

IMExperience home cooked food is better, you need food that she can swallow quickly and easily, chopped steak, sausages, cheese, liver, devon or what ever she goes nuts for and something that doesn't crumble and drop everywhere. I find a mixute of all of the above works well.

If you are going to use a halti in class, train her to get used to it at home this week. If you are not happy to use it, tell the trainer and they 'should' come up with another plan for you and your dog.

Does your dog love toys? She looks like a breed that should.

[sandra64]

Most clubs cater for 'pet' owners who usually do a beginners course and that's it. If you hang in there the classes will get smaller and smaller . I'm not even training at my club anymore until I'm ready to trial so I can go straight into their trial class because the lower classes can be really frustrating .

im with you on that tiggy.....they do a mighty job with all their volunteers and such, but geez....your right hit head on wall

[Tiggy]

Yucky.

There are a lot of ways to teach loose leash walking. Pick one that you like and stick to it like you would stick to a plan to quit smoking cold turkey.

I never let a tight leash get the dog anywhere, and I keep the clicker ticking over like a ratchet in the early stages. It gets faded surprisingly quickly once you start raising the criteria (taking more steps between reinforcements).

Totally agree . I walk three dogs at once with no pulling so it works!

[Got Spots]

The classes didn't get smaller for me

They did class 1 and 2 in small groups of max 10 then we were all dumped in 1 bit class 3 of about 30 - we quit after that

You were only special if you had a border collie, then you got special treatment in front of all of us in class 3

We were not impressed

[Tiggy]

I have noticed they favour the Border Collies.

[fainty_girl]

It's better to use soft treats like sausage and cheese so you can treat the dog quickly without it having to chew. Remember Tilly is your dog so if you don't agree with something don't do it. If you don't want to use a halter then don't. You might be better off getting a private Instructor to help you with the pulling problem.

I think you're right...private trainer will probably be the next step I think.

Yeah it's a pain but you have to consider if what you saw is really how you want them to train your dog. If she's that bad I'd book her in to see Steve from K9 Force, he'd stop her pulling on the leash within minutes I bet

My worry would be the fact that the trainer at this place clearly has no idea how to use the tool they are pushing on to everyone, and is actually hurting the dogs he is handling. Do I want him to do that to my dog? would be the question I'd ask myself.

My dogs will work for a piece of lettuce at home, but when we are out in a distracting environment they need something really high value I use soft and smelly things like cooked sausage. Is she prey/toy driven at all?

There is no way i'd want that trainer to drag Tilly along if she was wearing a halter. I was hoping to get some support to see if it would be possible to walk her on a normal collar. Tilly doesn't pull when she wears her halter, but she gets very sooky. She goes from being extremely enthusiastic and pulling full-on without the halter, to being sooky and wanting to lay down and hide in between my legs instead of walking with the halter on.

When she hasn't got a halter on and is off-lead she is very toy driven (she has a favourite squeaky ball that she will do anything for and I play tug-of-war to help with her recall when we are out). At home she is very food driven, but if she's offleash somewhere the treat has to be something she really loves (banana or roast meat) to really get her interest.

The problem is, when she's wearing the halter she is so sooky that she's not very interested in food and she can't/won't play with her squeaky ball. She loses her enthusiasm and confidence when wearing the halter.

the club sounds awful . What a shame about your experience. I do believe in using devices for dogs that REALLY pull, but the halti would not be one I would recommend (constant strain on the neck = not good) unless the person was experienced and under constant supervision .

As for exercising before club - I was told to do that when Leo was a bub... turned into one of the WORST training sessions ever as the walk only warmed up his muscles and he was MORE hypo than ever . So no, I don't exercise before hand. Now, I love them absolutely bursting with energy as it's great to harness that drive and make them great to work with.

I totally agree with Laffi and Huski. As they said - you can get better advice and help from the trainer when your dog is a bit 'enthusiastic' shall we say :D

I don't have a problem with using devices for dogs that pull, as long as the dog is comfortable with it. Tilly isn't comfortable wearing a halter, so that is my problem with it.

Thanks, I bought a couple of other types of treats at the supermarket...chicken liver treats and that new schmacko popcorn. Tilly went nuts for the schmacko popcorn when I practicing the 'stay' command at home, so i'll try them next time around.

Have really yummy treats, you are going to need treats or toys that are more interesting than all the other dogs and new place. I would even go as far to say give her a very small dinner the night before so you know she will be really hungry, if food is her highest reward. Public trainig is like asking kids to do homework at Dreamworld, needs to be very rewarding of it's not going to happen.

Often treats or toys that they love at home with no distractions just dont cut it when they are out.

IMExperience home cooked food is better, you need food that she can swallow quickly and easily, chopped steak, sausages, cheese, liver, devon or what ever she goes nuts for and something that doesn't crumble and drop everywhere. I find a mixute of all of the above works well.

If you are going to use a halti in class, train her to get used to it at home this week. If you are not happy to use it, tell the trainer and they 'should' come up with another plan for you and your dog.

Does your dog love toys? She looks like a breed that should.

When the trainer saw I was really struggling when Tilly was on a normal non-slip collar, he said he would come and help me. Shortly after he went over to another dog and was then about to approach me with his own halti to put on, so at that point I explained that Tilly gets very sooky wearing her halter and he said she would probably get used to it after a few weeks of coming here and getting treats and positive reinforcement, etc. The trainer never once took Tilly's lead and tried anything with her.

And yes Tilly absolutely loves toys, but gets so sooky with her halter on that she's not interested in toys.

[Seita]

Fainty_girl, I am disgusted to hear about your ordeal! I can't believe an instructor would put a halti on a dog and then force it to walk. If a halti or any other form of head harness is to be prescribed it needs to be introduced somewhere familiar and gradually - so at home, put it on give lots of treats and make it a pleasant experience. All that trainer has done is made dogs that are now even less likely to want to walk on a leash!

I would request my money back and tell then that you weren't happy with the training provided and I would definitely NOT go back again. Before you join another club go out and watch a training session first to see what they do. But if all you want is to fix loose lead walking, book in a consult with a recommended trainer and you should have her on a loose lead within one session.

I know K9 force has been recommended to you, he does distance learning for loose lead walking too but as you're in sydney you could book a consult with him too. I guarantee you that he will show you how to get Tilly on a loose lead within 5 minutes. I'm sure there are other great trainers in Sydney but I don't know who they are, but I'm sure someone could recommend one to you.

Edited November 8, 2009 by Seita

[huski]

There is no way i'd want that trainer to drag Tilly along if she was wearing a halter. I was hoping to get some support to see if it would be possible to walk her on a normal collar. Tilly doesn't pull when she wears her halter, but she gets very sooky. She goes from being extremely enthusiastic and pulling full-on without the halter, to being sooky and wanting to lay down and hide in between my legs instead of walking with the halter on.

When she hasn't got a halter on and is off-lead she is very toy driven (she has a favourite squeaky ball that she will do anything for and I play tug-of-war to help with her recall when we are out). At home she is very food driven, but if she's offleash somewhere the treat has to be something she really loves (banana or roast meat) to really get her interest.

The problem is, when she's wearing the halter she is so sooky that she's not very interested in food and she can't/won't play with her squeaky ball. She loses her enthusiasm and confidence when wearing the halter.

What gets her more excited when she's not wearing the halter and you're out and about - food or toys? No reason you can't take her favourite ball or tug with her to obedience class and use that instead of food. Although I really think in this instance, that seeing a reputable private trainer will be the most beneficial avenue for you.

Going by your posts I would suggest that a head collar is not the best tool for her. If the trainer in your class was any good he would recognise this and have many other tools or methods up his sleeve that he could use instead.

When the trainer saw I was really struggling when Tilly was on a normal non-slip collar, he said he would come and help me. Shortly after he went over to another dog and was then about to approach me with his own halti to put on, so at that point I explained that Tilly gets very sooky wearing her halter and he said she would probably get used to it after a few weeks of coming here and getting treats and positive reinforcement, etc. The trainer never once took Tilly's lead and tried anything with her.

But going by your other post, he took someone else's puppy by the leash and pulled it and corrected it until it yelped - no one should ever take your dog unless you are ok with it and no one should ever take your dog unless they explain what they are going to do first, so you are comfortable with it.

And yes Tilly absolutely loves toys, but gets so sooky with her halter on that she's not interested in toys.

Which is a strong sign that she's stressed and uncomfortable. I agree with LP, there is nothing wrong with using tools to help you train your dog but there is a problem when it's the wrong tool for the dog.

[huski]

Tilly, I am disgusted to hear about your ordeal! I can't believe an instructor would put a halti on a dog and then force it to walk. If a halti or any other form of head harness is to be prescribed it needs to be introduced somewhere familiar and gradually - so at home, put it on give lots of treats and make it a pleasant experience. All that trainer has done is made dogs that are now even less likely to want to walk on a leash!

I would request my money back and tell then that you weren't happy with the training provided and I would definitely NOT go back again. Before you join another club go out and watch a training session first to see what they do. But if all you want is to fix loose lead walking, book in a consult with a recommended trainer and you should have her on a loose lead within one session.

I know K9 force has been recommended to you, he does distance learning for loose lead walking too but as you're in sydney you could book a consult with him too. I guarantee you that he will show you how to get Tilly on a loose lead within 5 minutes. I'm sure there are other great trainers in Sydney but I don't know who they are, but I'm sure someone could recommend one to you.

Totally agree Seita

Getting a dog to walk on a loose leash should not be a hard task for a reputable trainer.

[fainty_girl]

Tilly, I am disgusted to hear about your ordeal! I can't believe an instructor would put a halti on a dog and then force it to walk. If a halti or any other form of head harness is to be prescribed it needs to be introduced somewhere familiar and gradually - so at home, put it on give lots of treats and make it a pleasant experience. All that trainer has done is made dogs that are now even less likely to want to walk on a leash!

I would request my money back and tell then that you weren't happy with the training provided and I would definitely NOT go back again. Before you join another club go out and watch a training session first to see what they do. But if all you want is to fix loose lead walking, book in a consult with a recommended trainer and you should have her on a loose lead within one session.

I know K9 force has been recommended to you, he does distance learning for loose lead walking too but as you're in sydney you could book a consult with him too. I guarantee you that he will show you how to get Tilly on a loose lead within 5 minutes. I'm sure there are other great trainers in Sydney but I don't know who they are, but I'm sure someone could recommend one to you.

Do you think I stand a chance of getting a refund if I call them up? When I rang their call centre to book in I spoke to two different people and they both assured me that they would help with a dog that pulls on the lead. The headcollar brand that they were using was the gentle leader...like any other headcollar, surely you aren't meant to yank on them or drag along a resistant dog. That is correct isn't it?!

I looked up the K9 force website but saw that they are about 2 hours away from me. Is there anybody closer to the northern beaches that you would recommend? Or is K9 force definitely worth a long drive?

Edited November 8, 2009 by fainty_girl

[persephone]

I don't know a lot about formal obedience training... but what you describe sounds like somewhere to avoid

No- I don't think they'll happily refund your money, but you can try

Have never met K9 force, but from what I know- I would recommend you enjoy the drive !!

[huski]

Do you think I stand a chance of getting a refund if I call them up? When I rang their call centre to book in I spoke to two different people and they both assured me that they would help with a dog that pulls on the lead. The headcollar brand that they were using was the gentle leader...like any other headcollar, surely you aren't meant to yank on them or drag along a resistant dog. That is correct isn't it?!

Yes, definitely correct. I'd explain to them that the class made you uncomfortable and that you don't think their methods are the right ones for your dog.

I looked up the K9 force website but saw that they are about 2 hours away from me. Is there anybody closer to the northern beaches that you would recommend? Or is K9 force definitely worth a long drive?

Absolutely! I'm going to a workshop of Steve's in a couple of weeks and I thought nothing of the two hour drive down to where it's being held I don't know many other trainers in Sydney but I guarantee driving to see Steve at K9 Force will be worth it.

Steve does book out months in advance though so I'd contact them ASAP if you want to book a consult.