WreckitWhippet Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Miranda I wonder would you be able to get a vego male to repeatedly serve a bitch ? If she smelt like cabbage maybe? ;) Yeah but it's a serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) I'm a vegetarian and I strongly disagree with the concept of feeding a dog a vegetarian diet, I also disagree with the idea that dogs are omnivores. Humans are omnivores and a dog's GI tract has no similarity to that of a human, their teeth, the composition of their saliva, the strength of their stomach acid and the length of the tract itself are completely different, a dog's GI tract is quite obviously designed to deal with flesh, bones and other foods derived from animals. Vegetable protein is also inferior to meat protein and harder to assimilate, to get enough protein you have to eat large amounts of fibre and a dog's gut is very limited in its ability to break down and process carbohydrates. Dogs may be able to survive on a vegetarian diet, but whether they will actually thrive and be able to successfully reproduce is another matter.As a breeder I would never sell a puppy to anyone who wanted to feed a vegetarian diet because I truly believe that it's not in the best interests of the dog. As others have said if you don't want to feed meat get a pet that's a natural vegetarian, don't get a dog. My dogs love fruit and vegies and not just cause I offer them. They seek them out, much like foxes I believe who will help themselves to windfall fruit and I often see blackberry seeds in fox poo. I think dogs are predominantly meat eaters but they do love variety and eat all sorts of other food they might get access to. this is Puck stealing very immature nectarines. Edited November 5, 2009 by Kirislin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckandsteve Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Sorry not trying to ignore your questions, the research isn't out there on actually dog studies. Its all based on swapping omnivores to vegetarian diets. It's a little research area as there is a lack of interest, all the info you can really get is general not dog specific. Only dog specific information is from those who are raising their own dogs on it. Generally speaking I think these people are ignored, cavalier for example says her dogs are doing really well on a vegetarian diet. But people dont really want to hear that they want something official and there is nothing that i have been able to find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I love those photos, Kirislin. I agree that dogs predominantly eat meat but that some form of vegetation completes their diet. I think it is selfish to consider having an animal with the purposeful intent on changing what it would otherwise do best on. I do know of people who do feed vegen diets to their dogs and I have read that dogs can do ok on them, but they have to be very dedicated towards meal preparation and adding in all the required supplements to make up for dietary losses that would occur in the absence of meat. But IMO nothing beats nature and to keep as close to nature as is absolutely possible is the best thing. IMO this person is being selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Miranda I wonder would you be able to get a vego male to repeatedly serve a bitch ? I'm not sure, would he have the energy? ;) I'd also be concerned about the viability of his semen, it would be interesting to see a comparison between the semen of a dog on a vegetarian diet and the semen of a dog fed meat and bones. I'm not saying a vegetarian dog would be sterile, but I'm pretty sure that his semen would differ in quality from a dog fed a more natural diet. I've just had a look at that Veganpet site, apparently their food consists of soy and maize (corn goes straight through my dogs so I couldn't use it) plus various additives. Interestingly one of the additives is the enzyme amylase which is involved in the breakdown of vegetable matter. According to Cavalier dogs produce amylase in abundance in their saliva and gut so it makes me wonder why Veganpet feel the need to include it in their food One of life's little mysteries I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Trix would choose the rabbit and next doors chickens any day, in fact she sometimes does ;) I have never had a dog that liked vege's or fruit apart from my Thomas who looooooved carrots, I'd always have a massive bag for my horse and he'd always run out grab one and run off with it Anyway just a pointless post coz I felt like talking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I'm a vegetarian and I strongly disagree with the concept of feeding a dog a vegetarian diet, I also disagree with the idea that dogs are omnivores. Humans are omnivores and a dog's GI tract has no similarity to that of a human, their teeth, the composition of their saliva, the strength of their stomach acid and the length of the tract itself are completely different, a dog's GI tract is quite obviously designed to deal with flesh, bones and other foods derived from animals. Vegetable protein is also inferior to meat protein and harder to assimilate, to get enough protein you have to eat large amounts of fibre and a dog's gut is very limited in its ability to break down and process carbohydrates. Dogs may be able to survive on a vegetarian diet, but whether they will actually thrive and be able to successfully reproduce is another matter.As a breeder I would never sell a puppy to anyone who wanted to feed a vegetarian diet because I truly believe that it's not in the best interests of the dog. As others have said if you don't want to feed meat get a pet that's a natural vegetarian, don't get a dog. My dogs love fruit and vegies and not just cause I offer them. They seek them out, much like foxes I believe who will help themselves to windfall fruit and I often see blackberry seeds in fox poo. I think dogs are predominantly meat eaters but they do love variety and eat all sorts of other food they might get access to. Kirislin my dogs eat just about everything too, fruit, vegetables, nuts, whatever, but I still maintain that their GI tract isn't that of a true omnivore, if it was they would have a much longer GI tract and would secrete enzymes to break down cellulose. There is no doubt that dogs are scavengers and can exist on just about anything, but their bodies definitely resemble a carnivore inside and out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Im not really interested in everyones insults. I know my dogs are happy and healthy and really thats all that matters to me. Whoever it was that is emailing Nick Costa....could you please let me know what he says? He was my Professor at Vet School (yes we study nutrition in great depth at vet school - contrary to what many believe). I questioned him on vegetarian diets when at Vet School and he believes dogs can thrive on a vegetarian diet if done correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Dogs produce amylase from their pancreas, not salivary amylase as humans do. So dog saliva doesn't contain amylase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Im not really interested in everyones insults. I know my dogs are happy and healthy and really thats all that matters to me.Whoever it was that is emailing Nick Costa....could you please let me know what he says? He was my Professor at Vet School (yes we study nutrition in great depth at vet school - contrary to what many believe). I questioned him on vegetarian diets when at Vet School and he believes dogs can thrive on a vegetarian diet if done correctly. Yes they may well thrive, but can they reproduce successfully over a couple of generations without any reduction in fertility or the survival rates of puppies. Will puppies weaned directly onto a vegetarian diet have any problems, skeletal or otherwise at maturity? I am talking about ALL breeds of dogs not just toy breeds. Are you honestly asserting that raising a litter of great danes on Veganpet would be the best thing for them? What insults? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Dogs produce amylase from their pancreas, not salivary amylase as humans do. So dog saliva doesn't contain amylase. Dogs have amylase in their saliva, Cavalier said so and she's a vet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I would also question how a very active dog like a working sheep dog would go on a vegetarian diet. Would they thrive and live a long useful life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Im not really interested in everyones insults. I know my dogs are happy and healthy and really thats all that matters to me.Whoever it was that is emailing Nick Costa....could you please let me know what he says? He was my Professor at Vet School (yes we study nutrition in great depth at vet school - contrary to what many believe). I questioned him on vegetarian diets when at Vet School and he believes dogs can thrive on a vegetarian diet if done correctly. then you'll know what he will say, he's already said it to you. Is it just that you want everyone to agree with you or not comment at all? I haven't insulted anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Dogs produce amylase from their pancreas, not salivary amylase as humans do. So dog saliva doesn't contain amylase. Dogs have amylase in their saliva, Cavalier said so and she's a vet! Yah, about that, the endocrinologists don't actually agree, bit of a dilemma there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Dogs produce amylase from their pancreas, not salivary amylase as humans do. So dog saliva doesn't contain amylase. Dogs have amylase in their saliva, Cavalier said so and she's a vet! Yah, about that, the endocrinologists don't actually agree, bit of a dilemma there Oh dear, what a shame ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diva Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 My dog ate some cat faeces the other week - she ended up in hospital for 3 days on a drip with bloody diarrhoea. Good grief. Half the dogs on DOL would be on drips if cat faeces routinely did that to healthy dogs. It's rare that in a dog and (indoor) cat household the dogs haven't snaffled at least one 'cat truffle' in their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gila Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Maybe it had something to do with the vego diet? Weakened immune system? Who knows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vehs Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I wonder why he wanted to eat cat poo.. was he missing something in his diet? Didn't he realise the cat was also fed inappropriately and his droppings wouldn't offer anything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 I'm a vegetarian and would never dream of feeding my dogs a vego diet. I got over my meat aversion very quickly when I got Rafael and now years later don't flinch when batching up stinking roo meat or chopping a chicken carcus in half. Both my dogs eat lots of vegies and fruit and Rafael happily would sell his soul in exchange for lentils/butter beans etc (he is slightly broked ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Maybe it had something to do with the vego diet? Weakened immune system?Who knows.... Hmmm, a vegetarian dog probably doesn't have the same gut flora as a meat eating dog, then again, I've heard cat poo is bad for dogs, I know of one ate alot, got pancreatitis and died from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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