Feeding Dogs A Vegetarian Diet

[stormie]

"You're right - I could probably survive on eating powdered food and taking multi vitamins to ensure I got my daily requirements"

This is crazy I never said someone would feed them powder and I also said its about what not to feed them as well.

But your right I can't argue against that because it would be the doing of a crazy person

You misinterpreted my post. You said most humans don't eat a proper optimal diet. I was simply saying that I could live off powdered food (as an example, I could also say bread and water), but so long as I took a nutritional supplement to ensure I was getting the right amount of nutrients, I would probably survive, but that it wouldn't be ideal.

I was trying to point out that a dog could survive on a vegetarian diet so long as they still got their nutritional requirements, but it wouldn't be as ideal as them getting what they needed from their intended source : meat and bones.

[chuckandsteve]

I'm not an expert on dog health, never said I was. The information is very hard to obtain and as of yet there isn't really enough research done on the topic as the majority of the community are against it. Mine dont eat a vegetarian diet so I can't offer that. There is one brand available on the internet if you want to look at that but I can't remember what it was called I found it using google but wasn't completely happy with it hence why they aren't on it.

I really just wanted to help huski approach in a manner that would at least allow this lady to listen to their opinion. If its not done right then there are problems and just from what has been said about her I didn't believe she would do it right.

dol generally fails to approach controversial topics like this one in a way where the person isn't attacked/upset by the response and little helpful information comes out.

The topic wasn't can you tell me what to feed the dog it was how can I talk to this women about it? Respect is the way to approach it, that was all I was trying to get across just because its not your own belief doesn't mean it is wrong. To stay a vegetarian she has got to have a fair ability to block out other peoples opinions as most people seem to find vegetarians offensive thats why we have to spend so much time talking about as other people have said.

Get a rabbit, dont mess with nature calling her a fruitloop. She has heard it all before and its cruel, so anyone that says this she is not going to give 2 hoots what they think.

But I have said everything I have to say now so to huski good luck

[Diva]

As someone who was vegetarian for around 20 years, and still rarely eats meat at home, this is an issue I've thought about a bit.

I don't think there is a satisfactory resolution between animal welfare belief system-based vegetarianism and keeping pets which need meat-based food. I don't think people who cannot compomise on such matters for the sake of the animals they choose to keep should keep dogs or cats.

Just the compromise of using meat based kible and/or fish and eggs is enough, but if they can't go that far they shouldn't have dogs in my view. While dogs do eat other things I do believe that they are mostly evolved for a meat diet and will not thrive long term without animal based foods.

Some vegos, of course, and primarily vegetarian for their own health reasons and I don't think the same conflict then arises. The same for those who are vego because of the impact of raising meat animals on the environment, because using feral species can address that. We can't assume everyone has the same motivation or conlfict.

[Kissindra]

Bum, I was really interested in learning someting about it, there were some other posters who said they fed vego and that it was possible for a vego diet to be fine for dogs - can those people share some info?

ETA - Cavalier - you mentioned feeding you cavs vego but not your large breed puppy, I'm kind of confused as to what further research you would need to do other than what levels are right for a large breed pup. Presumably to have researched feeding the cavs you know already what vego food replace what ellements of meat/bones? Can you tell me more about this?

Edited November 5, 2009 by Kissindra

[chuckandsteve]

http://veganpet.com.au/articles/

Thats the website the reason I didn't like it is they also sell it for cats and cats can't be vegetarian

[Miranda]

I'm a vegetarian and I strongly disagree with the concept of feeding a dog a vegetarian diet, I also disagree with the idea that dogs are omnivores. Humans are omnivores and a dog's GI tract has no similarity to that of a human, their teeth, the composition of their saliva, the strength of their stomach acid and the length of the tract itself are completely different, a dog's GI tract is quite obviously designed to deal with flesh, bones and other foods derived from animals. Vegetable protein is also inferior to meat protein and harder to assimilate, to get enough protein you have to eat large amounts of fibre and a dog's gut is very limited in its ability to break down and process carbohydrates. Dogs may be able to survive on a vegetarian diet, but whether they will actually thrive and be able to successfully reproduce is another matter.

As a breeder I would never sell a puppy to anyone who wanted to feed a vegetarian diet because I truly believe that it's not in the best interests of the dog. As others have said if you don't want to feed meat get a pet that's a natural vegetarian, don't get a dog.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Miranda

[Cavalier]

Bum, I was really interested in learning someting about it, there were some other posters who said they fed vego and that it was possible for a vego diet to be fine for dogs - can those people share some info?

ETA - Cavalier - you mentioned feeding you cavs vego but not your large breed puppy, I'm kind of confused as to what further research you would need to do other than what levels are right for a large breed pup. Presumably to have researched feeding the cavs you know already what vego food replace what ellements of meat/bones? Can you tell me more about this?

Im feeding my kids Veganpet kibble. Google it and it will come up. Has all the nutritional info on the website, and a full analysis done by the Professor of Applied Nutrition at Murdoch University. My dogs preferentially eat the Veganpet over their old meat based kibble.

People have a very closed mind when it comes to vegetarianism, Ive heard all the insults before. It becomes boring.

We have thought very hard about our belief systems, and really it comes down to what you can live with and what lets you sleep at night.

I know my dogs are healthy, happy, content and fulfilled and I am not contributing to the slaughter of millions of animals to get there.

[Kissindra]

http://veganpet.com.au/articles/

Thats the website the reason I didn't like it is they also sell it for cats and cats can't be vegetarian

according to the site they can provided they are fed their brand of food which has all the suppliments in it. Is that not the same as selling dog food with suppliments in it? Obviously the levels are different but doesn't it equate to the same thing - animal that needs meat to whatever degree being fed a meat free alternative?

I know this is a hard topic so please understand my questions come from genuine interest and I just want to understand your views :D

[Cavalier]

I'm a vegetarian and I strongly disagree with the concept of feeding a dog a vegetarian diet, I also disagree with the idea that dogs are omnivores. Humans are omnivores and a dog's GI tract has no similarity to that of a human, their teeth, the composition of their saliva, the strength of their stomach acid and the length of the tract itself are completely different, a dog's GI tract is quite obviously designed to deal with flesh, bones and other foods derived from animals. Vegetable protein is also inferior to meat protein and harder to assimilate, to get enough protein you have to eat large amounts of fibre and a dog's gut is very limited in its ability to break down and process carbohydrates. Dogs may be able to survive on a vegetarian diet, but whether they will actually thrive and be able to successfully reproduce is another matter.

As a breeder I would never sell a puppy to anyone who wanted to feed a vegetarian diet because I truly believe that it's not in the best interests of the dog. As others have said if you don't want to feed meat get a pet that's a natural vegetarian, don't get a dog.

Please explain to be the difference between a dogs GI tract and a humans. They are actually almost identical :D

[Cavalier]

http://veganpet.com.au/articles/

Thats the website the reason I didn't like it is they also sell it for cats and cats can't be vegetarian

according to the site they can provided they are fed their brand of food which has all the suppliments in it. Is that not the same as selling dog food with suppliments in it? Obviously the levels are different but doesn't it equate to the same thing - animal that needs meat to whatever degree being fed a meat free alternative?

I know this is a hard topic so please understand my questions come from genuine interest and I just want to understand your views :D

Yes can can be vegetarian too - if done properly. My cats eat it The Veganpet food contains taurine produced by bacteria.

[stormie]

http://veganpet.com.au/articles/

Thats the website the reason I didn't like it is they also sell it for cats and cats can't be vegetarian

Thanks for the link..

I find that website completely irresponsible..

It is also possible to raise a meat-eating animal such as a cat or dog on a vegan diet and thus reduce the overall amount of animal suffering and death in the world by not supporting the exploitative industries of fishing and meat-farming.

...what about the suffering of the poor cats who are raised on inappropriate vegan diets who don't get the taurine they need? A cat who doesn't get taurine will die.

That website does not stress the importance of supplementing cats with taurine, IMO.

[Kissindra]

Bum, I was really interested in learning someting about it, there were some other posters who said they fed vego and that it was possible for a vego diet to be fine for dogs - can those people share some info?

ETA - Cavalier - you mentioned feeding you cavs vego but not your large breed puppy, I'm kind of confused as to what further research you would need to do other than what levels are right for a large breed pup. Presumably to have researched feeding the cavs you know already what vego food replace what ellements of meat/bones? Can you tell me more about this?

Im feeding my kids Veganpet kibble. Google it and it will come up. Has all the nutritional info on the website, and a full analysis done by the Professor of Applied Nutrition at Murdoch University. My dogs preferentially eat the Veganpet over their old meat based kibble.

People have a very closed mind when it comes to vegetarianism, Ive heard all the insults before. It becomes boring.

We have thought very hard about our belief systems, and really it comes down to what you can live with and what lets you sleep at night.

I know my dogs are healthy, happy, content and fulfilled and I am not contributing to the slaughter of millions of animals to get there.

Oh sorry I'd got the impression you were making your own vego diet. I appreciate that people have a closed mind, but I'm attempting to ask questions to find out more. The more people can answer the more everyone learns :D I get that people put a lot of thought into things, just want them to share what they've found.

[stormie]

Cavalier - as a vet, you would have to know that cats are obligate carnivores. Can I ask why you would chose to have a cat as a pet, if you cannot feed meat? I'm sorry, and I don't mean any disrespect, but I just find this so wrong...

[huski]

Bum, I was really interested in learning someting about it, there were some other posters who said they fed vego and that it was possible for a vego diet to be fine for dogs - can those people share some info?

ETA - Cavalier - you mentioned feeding you cavs vego but not your large breed puppy, I'm kind of confused as to what further research you would need to do other than what levels are right for a large breed pup. Presumably to have researched feeding the cavs you know already what vego food replace what ellements of meat/bones? Can you tell me more about this?

Im feeding my kids Veganpet kibble. Google it and it will come up. Has all the nutritional info on the website, and a full analysis done by the Professor of Applied Nutrition at Murdoch University. My dogs preferentially eat the Veganpet over their old meat based kibble.

People have a very closed mind when it comes to vegetarianism, Ive heard all the insults before. It becomes boring.

We have thought very hard about our belief systems, and really it comes down to what you can live with and what lets you sleep at night.

I know my dogs are healthy, happy, content and fulfilled and I am not contributing to the slaughter of millions of animals to get there.

I don't care if people chose to be vegetarians. But I will not buy the argument that it's right to feed dogs a vego diet purely because of our own beliefs. Dogs have evolved to eat raw meat and bones, and if they were left to their own devices that's what they would do. I don't buy the argument that they will do just as well on a vegetarian diet as they would on a complete canine diet that includes raw meat and bones. Sure they could survive just as they can survive on a range of sub-standard diets. But is it the best thing for them?

[Kissindra]

Thanks for the link..

I find that website completely irresponsible..

It is also possible to raise a meat-eating animal such as a cat or dog on a vegan diet and thus reduce the overall amount of animal suffering and death in the world by not supporting the exploitative industries of fishing and meat-farming.

...what about the suffering of the poor cats who are raised on inappropriate vegan diets who don't get the taurine they need? A cat who doesn't get taurine will die.

That website does not stress the importance of supplementing cats with taurine, IMO.

they do just far enough to push you have to buy their product...funny that :D

[Cavalier]

http://veganpet.com.au/articles/

Thats the website the reason I didn't like it is they also sell it for cats and cats can't be vegetarian

Thanks for the link..

I find that website completely irresponsible..

It is also possible to raise a meat-eating animal such as a cat or dog on a vegan diet and thus reduce the overall amount of animal suffering and death in the world by not supporting the exploitative industries of fishing and meat-farming.

...what about the suffering of the poor cats who are raised on inappropriate vegan diets who don't get the taurine they need? A cat who doesn't get taurine will die.

That website does not stress the importance of supplementing cats with taurine, IMO.

You obviously didnt read the website very well. There is a huge section in there about taurine and how the food is supplemented with taurine. This food meets the AFFCO requirements.

http://veganpet.com.au/articles/?page_id=9

Edited November 5, 2009 by Cavalier

[stormie]

I did read that, Cavalier, but not everyone would necessarily go that far to read the whole site. I just don't think they stressed the importance of it enough.

[Souff]

Souff has vegie dogs sometimes. They eat grass. Then they :D

[Kissindra]

I don't care if people chose to be vegetarians. But I will not buy the argument that it's right to feed dogs a vego diet purely because of our own beliefs. Dogs have evolved to eat raw meat and bones, and if they were left to their own devices that's what they would do. I don't buy the argument that they will do just as well on a vegetarian diet as they would on a complete canine diet that includes raw meat and bones. Sure they could survive just as they can survive on a range of sub-standard diets. But is it the best thing for them?

That is the sticking point for me, it's interesting to find out how people go about getting a well balanced vego diet (though I still want to find out what research there is on how well synthetic suppliments are absorbed) but I don't see how it's better to go the synthetic route rather than exploring the alternative more natural options of trying to source meat/bone in such a way that you are not adding to any kill rate, rather making better use of what is readily available.

[stephcola]

I have a friend who has raised his newfoundland on a vegan diet (he SLOWLY made the transistion when the dog was young) & i would say he is happy & healthy. He uses a combination of Veganpet kibble & home prepared vegies. If someone is willing to put in the effort & money to do it properly then i believe a dog can thrive on this diet. Obviously doing it incorrectly or being lazy about it would be terrible for the dog.

Bringing the word "natural" into the discussion seems like a bit of a joke to me. In my opinion feeding a dog a well balanced vegan/vegetarian diet monitored by a human is no more or less "natural" then feeding a dog some tinned scraps from the abbatoir floor that you bought from the supermarket.