Starting Basic Scent Detection Training

[WildatHeart]

I need the trusty help of dolers again. I’m now starting my next assessment of basic scent detection. After today’s dismal attempts at teaching Lucy the basics, I don’t hold much hope.

So I’m getting her to sit at an empty box the printer paper with a container on top that’s holding mixed herbs (the target). She’s grabbing the target and spilt the contents (so moved to a new area) and mouthing the boxes and tugging at her lead and barking and just making a big mess of everything…… So I put the target in the box with the lid off – nope still grabs it before I have a chance to stop her. Put the lid on so hiding the target – so now she thinks it’s a big game called World War 4 Annihilation of Boxes.

I don’t know what to do, I was under the impression that no punishment should be given to scent detection dogs. She’s just so over the top (which will be good when I get the problems under control).

[Aidan]

I'm not sure what sort of indication you are using or the exact set-up, but I would click as soon as she indicates and before she has a chance to destroy anything. Then immediately set her up for the next trial and repeat. It may help to use a stronger target.

[cramet]

sounds like she has lernt to active alert instead of passive

in high drive dog the active is easier to achive for them because it can be a release as well as a reward for them

if thats the case it can take a while to retrain the passive because u are bracking a lernt habbit

but since i havnt trained for passive alert i wouldnt know what steps needed to take to change the alert

Edited November 4, 2009 by cramet

[cramet]

just a thought

you could also make ur self a scent wall to use

this will only work is u have imprinted the scent into the dog

u have a wall with a few diff hole cut or drilled into it make sure its more than 1 hole other wise its pointless

then go to the plumbing store and get some y junctions and small section of pipe big enough for a ball u put a cap on one side of the junction and leave the other open

u put the scent in the caped of peice and with the opened end u use a second person or make a trap door for the ball and as soon as the dog does a positve alerts u release the ball if the dog misses finish the search of then set the dog up and start again

every time u use the scent board u have to clean it down so there isnt any old scent to go of on the search (the dog will never get a positive hit if u dont and u will make life very hard for ur self training wise)

scent wall

scent wall parts

Edited November 4, 2009 by cramet

[Staranais]

So I’m getting her to sit at an empty box the printer paper with a container on top that’s holding mixed herbs (the target). She’s grabbing the target and spilt the contents (so moved to a new area) and mouthing the boxes and tugging at her lead and barking and just making a big mess of everything…… So I put the target in the box with the lid off – nope still grabs it before I have a chance to stop her. Put the lid on so hiding the target – so now she thinks it’s a big game called World War 4 Annihilation of Boxes.

Does she actually understand the concept of sniffing the boxes to find the herb smelling one, yet?

If not, I'd break it down, and train that concept before doing anything with the indication.

To train the concept, I'd probably just be calmly walking her past the boxes, letting her sniff each one, and clicking when you were at the right box immediately after she sniffed, whether or not she indicated. Let her make the connection between sniffing the right scent, and immediately hearing the click. After a few sessions, she'll sniff the right one and look at you to say "pay up!" Then you can add the add the indication, by asking for a sit after she looks at you and before you click.

I haven't taught this, but have taught other scent work, and I think this is how I'd approach it if it was me. If I wanted to train with a drive reward, I'd introduce the drive reward after she knew how to do the behaviour. Just like you can teach "sit" or "down" with food first, then incorperate it into a drive game. Probably a skilled trainer could train it in drive to start with, but I think I'd find that too difficult with a high drive dog.

[Nekhbet]

you need to calm her down before she can think, she is learning nothing.

have her hungry, crumble some really smelly food so she cant see it and spread it around the floor. Then give her the search word over and over as she sniffs the ground and gets the food. She will HAVE to learn to be thorough and glue her nose to the floor otherwise she will miss the food.

when you have that to the point you say the word and nose hits the floor THEN simply put the box in the middle of the spread food and have her search around it. It wont be exciting to her just another piece of the furniture and she will be focussed on nose glued to the ground.

then proceed to put your herbs on top of the box, a little food on top of that and get her to search. Progress as you would for the rest of the exercise but gradually wean off the food unless your timing is completely off. I would start reintroducing the prey reward when you have the lid on the box, as soon as she taps it with her nose/paw throw the prey reward in front of her and loudly 'YAAAAAY GOOD DOG GOOD DOG!!' in a high pitched excited voice. She will already know control and to keep her nose down before her excitement gets too far.

I dont bother with clickers I prefer my voice. If i'm out and about in public, where I train my dogs mostly, clickers can be drowned out by traffic noise etc but my voice will always be heard.

[Kavik]

What indication are you trying to teach and what is your reward?

The boxes are most often used for a passive (sit) response (though I used it for the start of active response with food reward).

I would put a lid on the target box so she can't spill the contents.

Another thing I did was to put the target under a container like a milk crate where the scent comes through well and they can see it. I did this at first with food to get my active (dig) response and then added the target. With a plastic milk crate she can't destroy it, and you can mark it when she sniffs or shows interest in the scent.

Staranais's suggestion sounds good.

If you are training active response with tug reward you could try ditching the boxes altogether and put your scent in your reward (rolled up towel or one of those mesh bags or PVC with holes in it), play fetch with the reward and then make it harder to find.

[WildatHeart]

No, she doesn’t have any concept of sniffing yet. She’s trying anything to try and get that click. It was her first session. My set up was one box with the lid on with the target container on the top. I was walking her up to it and as soon as she looked at it or sniffed I asked for a sit then click and treated. Well, that was the idea anyway.

There’s some great other ideas put forward here I think I’ll have to give them a go. Thanks guys 

[WildatHeart]

Kavik, I was after a sit response and my reward is food.

[Erny]

Does she actually understand the concept of sniffing the boxes to find the herb smelling one, yet?

If not, I'd break it down, and train that concept before doing anything with the indication.

To train the concept, I'd probably just be calmly walking her past the boxes, letting her sniff each one, and clicking when you were at the right box immediately after she sniffed, whether or not she indicated. Let her make the connection between sniffing the right scent, and immediately hearing the click. After a few sessions, she'll sniff the right one and look at you to say "pay up!" Then you can add the add the indication, by asking for a sit after she looks at you and before you click.

I haven't taught this, but have taught other scent work, and I think this is how I'd approach it if it was me. If I wanted to train with a drive reward, I'd introduce the drive reward after she knew how to do the behaviour. Just like you can teach "sit" or "down" with food first, then incorperate it into a drive game. Probably a skilled trainer could train it in drive to start with, but I think I'd find that too difficult with a high drive dog.

I'd follow Staranais' suggestion. Although with one change. I would "good" for each sniff (regardless of whether the box held the scent or not). After all, we want her to learn that she does need to investigate EACH box by sniffing, not just the target box. Encourage her on to the next box (which contains the scent) and encourage her to sniff. Then tell her "sit" (assuming that's the indicator you are using). As soon as she's sat, release and BIG reward (whatever rocks her boat).

Perhaps you need to change the scent, to begin with? Is there a reason you've gone for the scent that you have? Perhaps she finds it just a bit too attractive? Can you try something a little less appealing, perhaps? I started my avatar girl off with a cut lemon.

Are you running her through on lead, until she begins to get the hang of it? Or do you feel you've progressed through that stage already?

Is the container holding the scent sealed? I started my girl on a second scent which was gunpowder. I put it in a small tupperware container with a screw-on lid. I'd already drilled several very small holes in the lid to make it easier to scent.

If it helps you to know, WildatHeart, my girl (now bless her cotton socks) was the worst possible candidate for a scent dog. She was 10 or 11 years old when I began the scent training; had far too much obedience training in her and consequently was always looking for direction; was a 'nervous nelly' which made it incredibly difficult to demonstrate her scent training for the assessment; and had an unexpected and serious bouts of ill-health occur in between her training, which meant we were often taking 3 steps forward and 2 steps back. Bless her - she got me through the assessment for a pass. I figure if she could do it, then any dog could do it and I'm sure you'll work your way through this with patience and determination.

[WildatHeart]

Erny, she is on a lead and the target WAS in a container, until she split it open. I think because i had just finish training her to get teh beer out of the fridge she's in the thinking that everything has to be grabbed....i guess.

Thanks erny, i'll jsut have to try and settle her down and try again.