Bayleigh Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hi, We have a Chocci Lab named Bayleigh. He has been no problem with training. Very smart and easy to train. However, he now chases our lambs (tame) around the yard every now and then when let out into the backyard with them. We have tried the following: 1. Saying 'No' and calling him back - He responds but in his own good time! 2. Putting him on a long peice of rope and moving the lambs around as we need to and when he goes to chase them we stand or pull on the rope and say No. 3. Saying 'No' and then 'circle walking' him as punishment (circle work = holding his collar and turning him in one full circle, then making him sit) Any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Yep. Separate them. He's a carnivore, a predator. To him they're prey. If they run it triggers his prey drive. I'd never allow them together without supervision and then only on lead until you train a decent recall or a "leave it". To do that, you can try rewarding him for ignoring them with a game or a ball. But they're still prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Seperate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I say separate too, prey drive is a natural instinct, he isn't a natural flock guarding breed - even then they need "lots" of training. Maybe do lead work in the yard with him, but don't let him off, the last thing you want is him to grab hold of one. They run, he chases, he chases, they run, this is natures way. You may be able to train him to "leave it", but please don't leave him off lead with them until the hard work is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayleigh Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks for replies. Just found this website today - quite interesting. Anyway..we will work on the recall I think. We do have two separate paddocks so if he doesn't 'get it!' we will leave them separate. It is the obvious answer - just thought we could try something else and not have to worry about him with the lambs as much. Yep. The faster the sheep run the faster Bayleigh runs... We love the little lambs as much as him so don't worry we certainly keep an eye on him while try to train him in this! Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 he has already learned that chasing the lambs is much more rewarding than coming to you Please keep him/them SECURELY locked away. We live on a large property and have shot stray labs chasing our sheep :happydance: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Have a look at e-collar training. This is the most effective way to proof against livestock chasing. Interesting reading here : k9force's website and also here, on Lou Castle's website where he specifically adresses the use of e-collars on pups of 6 months of age & upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Separate or for absolute reliability- consider e collar training- but please with a professional to show you how to use one correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 consider e collar training- but please with a professional to show you how to use one correctly. Agree with Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I just don't take risks with dogs and prey animals. It's far less stressful just to keep them separated. My dogs sometimes go and stare at my hare through his cage and he gets frightened and runs around. Just watching him do that is rewarding enough for my dog to go and do it when he happens to be near the cage for a while. He will come away when called and I can train him right in front of the cage without losing him to the hare, but that doesn't mean watching the hare isn't rewarding anymore. I have tried punishments and there's nothing I'm prepared to do to him that is bad enough to make him stop. So the hare now has screening along his cage and he feels a bit safer from the doggy eyes. I have a fine recall and leave it, but it doesn't stop the dog from being interested in the hare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 My friend's lab co-existed in peace with their lambs until one day they came home, she had jumped into the lamb's paddock and mauled one of them. So separate them well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Definitely separate, train a great recall, but don't forget to also get him to spend lots of time doing CALM, normal things with the lambs. Work him beside the paddock. When you are reliably getting his attention and are able to have him sit, drop, heel (all the normal things you would do with a dog anywhere else), take him into the paddock on-leash and work on those things there. I guess it's a bit like having dogs co-exist with cats, they have to get used to being around each other, learn how to behave around each other. If your dog isn't chasing the lambs are less likely to run, and vice-versa. Ideally, if he should escape (or the lambs get into your yard, it happens), it would be great if he didn't chase or torment the lambs (or worse). The first thing I would work on is to just have him sit or stand on a loose leash, able to look at the lambs without trying to get to them. I would use a clicker and a lot of food, just click and treat every time the leash is loose. Click if he looks at them without trying to get to them. Use a high rate of reinforcement (click and treat as often as you can) at first, then start asking for specific things, sits, drops etc, then start moving closer to the lambs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 And even if they're in separate paddocks, if there's an adjoining fence, you don't want him to learn fence running and/or stirring up the stock - that will get him shot as well in the country. Agree with the idea of having him with you on a long line (tied to your waist is good - the old 'umbilical cord' - while you're doing calm stuff with the lambs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 yup e-collar now he has shown interest and prey towards them. IT is not cruel, your dog has to learn as a dog that chases and ultimately catches a great prize is then hard to work backwards. A friend of mine gets dogs that have already learned and progressed and it is not easy once they have learned the behavior is so very rewarding. keep them separate, dont let him chase and dont be afraid to really chastise him if he starts getting too excited. Call a good trainer with experience about an e-collar and do some work with it. You have a hunting breed with a lot of prey drive not a livestock guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 When my friend rings his 9yo lab (purebred, main register) over he will always charge the fence and bark at the sheep/lambs. He just sees them as something fun to chase, and will only recall when the sheep are no longer running away and have lost thier fun. Goodluck! I would like to see the outcome because I will be getting a gundog in a couple of months, although on the same note I will never let him in with the sheep, only my kelpie x who has herding instincts is allowed in the paddock with them so that the sheep or my dog don't get harmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Get rid of the lambs..... more trouble than what they are worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Get rid of the lambs..... more trouble than what they are worth. if you aren't going to separate you will have dead lambs...nothing surer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkey Trip Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 (edited) "Kindly disposed towards stock" is a trait found into the herding/pastoral breeds and it could be assumed that selection for this characteristic was quite deliberately done. Labradors were not bred to work with or protect livestock. In concurrence with other advice mentioned here my only experience with owning a pure-bred Labrador many years ago (a half-grown pup rescued from the pound) was that he soon grew up to become totally obsessed with chasing sheep. It became a real problem and we could not trust him out of sight at all. He left the country life to be re-homed into the streets of suburbia with no sheepies and a well fenced backyard. (I bet he missed his freezing winter morning dips in the creek, which he loved!) As a retrieving breed, perhaps this particular prey drive is very strong. Good luck but as others have said, you may just have to make the sheep enclosure totally dog-proof. (Edited for the typos & miztooks) Edited November 9, 2009 by Turkey Trot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4Kelpies Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 I have purebred Working Kelpies who come from generations of dogs bred to work sheep rather than hunt them, but I would never leave my dogs unattended with sheep. Their hunting instincts would take over. In time you will be able to train your puppy to walk quietly through a paddock of sheep in your presence, but you will never train the prey instinct out of him no matter how much you punish him. Remember he is only a baby so trying to call him when he is excited and wanting to chase will only give him practice in ignoring you. Don't waste your money on an e-collar, spend it on safe fences that will keep your dog and sheep apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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